Meath Forum

Armagh V Meath. Rd 2.

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Replying To mmc:  "I do Agree I had a great day at the TC Cup final with my Dad who had sadly passed away since so when I hear lads belittling the competition I find it even more annoying because of the memorys I have of that day .
My dad was at every Mearh All Ireland final since 49 and he enjoyed watching Meath win the TC so the lads on here belittling that win should maybe rethink what it meant to so players and supporters.
I'm not knocking any player that ever played for meath or Colm ORourke I admire their dedication to the Meath Jersey but as a country we are doing something wrong to be away from the top table for as long as we have with the talent we have in the county .
I admired Andy McEntees dedication to the job I do believe he stayed on too long but that's only my opinion and if I'm honest i believed Sean Boylan our greatest ever manager stayed on that little bit to long so I'm not just getting at Andy McEntee .
Coyle , O'brien , Banty , Barry , ODowd gave their time for the cause along with all the players down the years but for some unknown reason we have fallen way down the pecking order .
When I question our results over the last 20 years at club and county it's not a reaction to this group of plays it's more questioning why people on here believe we are better than we are and continue to blame the manage and coaches.
Football as it is has been destroyed by these coaches both at club and county at all grades the game as a specital is shocking .
I'm not surprised at the drop of levels from clubs to other sports because it must be toucher to play the game at this time . We have a massive amount of talent in Meath and but its not talent that wins anything now its a system and that system at the moment has the game destroyed."
A lot of truth in what you say The system is whats matters ,because that is what gets results .Seems even sporting spectacle is very much secondary. Sadly sport spectacle is sacrificed for commercialism .When we see how much it cost to prepare the team for a year and in particular the increase in the last couple of years you say this looks like a business more than sport System =results=money As you rightly say the system has the game destroyed at present..... On the other hand if the team is good enough by being fully prepared in the basic skills like Dublin ,Kerry and maybe an other they will win. The top teams are still very good in the basics like ball control, Fielding, freetaking, passing, anticipation ,fitness (mental and physical) .In fact all the skills your da (rip)admired so many years ago are still key skills of the game to day.Incidentally your da beats me by 1 on attendance for meath all ireland wins (not present for 1949) Yes i also enjoyed watching Meath win the T.C.. last year.Of course it is not the same as the 4 games against Dublin in 1991 as part of the Boylan era where old fogies like us were spoiled. I will never want to forget those days BUT things have changed now whether we like it or not.As you say the last 20 years it seems a covid like fungus set in Meath and is stil present. I am totally convinced that that fungus is ATTITUDE. To improve in anything including our sport/business the formulae is not rocket science REVIEW where we are at..........identify needs........train to fill those needs.....install changes and monitor.......then continue this cycle and improvement will happen or at least a lot better chance than god direct it approach.IMPROVEMENT can be made happen.....no question. Of course VISION is critical preferably from the top. Dublin did it starting about 20 years ago at CB . Have we a visionary at work ? I f we have give us a clue of the real plan and i dont mean the plan for play because that will not be relevant without a real stock take where hopefully change takes place because we see the NEED to change and update as key to IMPROVEMENT !

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 05/02/2024 15:08:47    2524573

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Replying To mmc:  "I do Agree I had a great day at the TC Cup final with my Dad who had sadly passed away since so when I hear lads belittling the competition I find it even more annoying because of the memorys I have of that day .
My dad was at every Mearh All Ireland final since 49 and he enjoyed watching Meath win the TC so the lads on here belittling that win should maybe rethink what it meant to so players and supporters.
I'm not knocking any player that ever played for meath or Colm ORourke I admire their dedication to the Meath Jersey but as a country we are doing something wrong to be away from the top table for as long as we have with the talent we have in the county .
I admired Andy McEntees dedication to the job I do believe he stayed on too long but that's only my opinion and if I'm honest i believed Sean Boylan our greatest ever manager stayed on that little bit to long so I'm not just getting at Andy McEntee .
Coyle , O'brien , Banty , Barry , ODowd gave their time for the cause along with all the players down the years but for some unknown reason we have fallen way down the pecking order .
When I question our results over the last 20 years at club and county it's not a reaction to this group of plays it's more questioning why people on here believe we are better than we are and continue to blame the manage and coaches.
Football as it is has been destroyed by these coaches both at club and county at all grades the game as a specital is shocking .
I'm not surprised at the drop of levels from clubs to other sports because it must be toucher to play the game at this time . We have a massive amount of talent in Meath and but its not talent that wins anything now its a system and that system at the moment has the game destroyed."
You say it's not talent that wins anything now it's a system. Then is it not really important that we have a good system? And if that means it a bad spectacle well that's not that the Meath managements fault. And personally I don't think it's a bad spectacle when it's done properly

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 05/02/2024 15:23:37    2524577

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At start of league realistic posters would have expected a narrow Fermanagh win and a loss to Armagh. We are one point short of that target, so less of the outrage and a bit more of reality. We have a very raw inexperienced team for this level, with one of the youngest teams in league togging out for last two games. Do we need a top class coach ? Maybe so, who is available ? Last management had Nally, touted to be up there with the best, however it was difficult to see what he brought to table, maybe talent was not there, but whatever the reason it did not work. There is talent in our panel but we need a few ( at least) of the injured players to add a bit of confidence and stability to team. Hopefully some of these lads can start to filter back in over next games. Ryan, Grey, O Higgans and Jordan Morris will make a difference., not sure if Harnan or McEntee have committed for this year. Its now all about staying ahead of Cork, Kildare and overtaking Louth, I think we are still capable of this

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 05/02/2024 17:33:36    2524604

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Results ? Maybe performance is way below. You say nally didn't bring much. He brought a lot.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/02/2024 18:03:16    2524609

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From listening and reading local and some national media, the reason for Saturday nights performance (or lack there of) has mainly been centered around the fact that it is a young and inexperienced team. While that is true and it is a factor, it is largely a factor of the management teams own making as they decided to move on a lot of experienced players. This is now the second league campaign and the performances (Cork game aside) have been carbon copys of each other. The one recognised coach on last year's management team is no longer there and again no questions were asked as to why he left the role after one season. Meath are easy to play against now and average but well coached teams such as Louth and Fermanagh can get results against them, while top teams such as Derry, Dublin and now Armagh have hammered Meath with the game being over at half time on all three occasions. Even Kildare, who appear to be a basket case as well, have beaten Meath comfortably. All blame shouldnt be laid at the managements door, but there certainly should be some questions asked at this stage.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 05/02/2024 21:51:53    2524652

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Also Armagh were missing six or seven players from their starting 15 who would more than likely start in their best fifteen. Ethan Rafferty, Rian O'Neill, Jason Duffy, Aidan Nugent, James Morgan didn't play at all while Ross McQuillan, Jarly Óg Burns and Oisin O'Neill only came on late in the game. So an Armagh team missing that many experienced and quality players could beat Meath by 12 points.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 05/02/2024 22:14:05    2524655

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Replying To royaldunne:  "First off condolences on the passing of ur dad rip. Never an easy thing and you have that memory forever, mine is bringing my elderly farther to 1999 all Ireland final. He was very immobile at the time and I remembered back to him lifting me over the styles in the 70s. Thankfully he saw graham lift Sam as he passed away the following year.
Naturally you are going to hold the TC victory close. And while I did enjoy winning it did it mean as much to me as an all ire Leinster or a league ? No. But it was still nice to win and guarantee all ire football this year. My fear was beating teams who would not compete with us anyway that when we met better set up and better coached teams we would get torn apart. I never in my wildest dreams thought Fermanagh would school us. I also don't think Armagh are at
The level of dubs , Kerry , mayo, Derry Monaghan etc. particularly missing their 2 best players. We were beat by more than double scores. That is worrying. We didn't go down fighting. Now the players can't and shouldn't escape been pulled up on the way they played. Is it that they don't have confidence in sideline? If so they should make those views knows to them. It's not too late to rectify this year. Unfortunately promotion is looking way out of our reach. But a solid. Mid and finish to league can leave us with optimism. A loss to louth at home (who even with harte gone look like a well managed outfit) and I think we gone to division 3. Surely we remember Colm saying last year that we would be much better in this years league , now he's saying 2,3 years. What will it be next ? Colm is an all time great player. That does not mean he can manage a county team. I had my worry's when he got it. As I remembered the u21s. He doesn't like modern football that's fair enough. Then come up with a new system that defeats it or at least counter it. To go back to hitting long balls when forward is surrounded is poor. I also agree mcentee stayed a year longer than should have. But at least we had a system of play that we could see. We don't have that now. Colm will not stay if we get relegated.regardless of if he wants to or not.
Again sorry for ur loss"
Thanks for your condolences.
I do Agree with you and when I look back at all the great days we had in Croke Park it's hard to accept where we are now .
I'm not a lover of the game now most games lack any atmosphere and this is mostly caused by the constant recycling of the ball that ends up with the goaly most of the time .
When you think back to the 4 games against Dublin in 91 or the 3 games against kildare in 97 what an atmosphere at all them games and at all games back then even when the football was shit there was a buzz at the games .
You could hear a pin drop at the Meath Dublin game last year and the same again against Fermanagh its just not right .
I understand what ORourke is trying to do but he wont be able to save football on his own he'll need the help of the rules committee and hopefully they will intervene soon .
The Louth game is huge but I do believe we will take them this year and we can kick on then and finish the league strong .

mmc (Meath) - Posts: 280 - 05/02/2024 23:40:43    2524671

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Poll on we are Meath. 54% of respondents believe we will get relegated. I voted that we will stay up. But negativity has set in. I don't think it's results alone. . It's the manner of the results But we have to hope we avoid relegation that would be a huge setback, it would end Colm's tenure. But worse still it would leave next management without much of a chance of getting into all ire. We really would have taken a huge step back from where current management took over. At all costs that must be avoided. So forget about cavan and Donegal they will hammer us unfortunately. We have 3 home games louth Kildare and cork. 2 wins is a must. But like last year Kildare are a basket case but for whatever reason they always up their game to play us. , for the past number of years we have had corks number home and away. So I think above all the 3 teams this is the most positive I'd be about getting a win. The other one is louth a 50/50. But we have to win it to stay in division 2. Which even at this stage is our main goal this year.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/02/2024 08:54:13    2524686

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This result was very easy to predict i thought we would be beaten 8-10 points alright. went very to script. id get hard to see us beating Louth on current form. i think it may be 1-12 to 0-11 or something near that. our only hope is to beat cork or kildare and hope donegal put out a second string for the last match which could be a dead rubber for them, but id say we will need the win to avoid relegation. Cavan will thump us down in Breffni Park too

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 767 - 06/02/2024 09:21:36    2524692

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Replying To mmc:  "Thanks for your condolences.
I do Agree with you and when I look back at all the great days we had in Croke Park it's hard to accept where we are now .
I'm not a lover of the game now most games lack any atmosphere and this is mostly caused by the constant recycling of the ball that ends up with the goaly most of the time .
When you think back to the 4 games against Dublin in 91 or the 3 games against kildare in 97 what an atmosphere at all them games and at all games back then even when the football was shit there was a buzz at the games .
You could hear a pin drop at the Meath Dublin game last year and the same again against Fermanagh its just not right .
I understand what ORourke is trying to do but he wont be able to save football on his own he'll need the help of the rules committee and hopefully they will intervene soon .
The Louth game is huge but I do believe we will take them this year and we can kick on then and finish the league strong ."
Sorry what is he trying to do because I was at the game and there was no effort when we go inside there 45 yard line. No one trying to turn the defenders or off the shoulder at pace, it was side ways and then the odd ball (2) kicked into Cian McBride. That seemed to be there plan. The kick out was working well because we went long over the press and we should have had an early goal ( player slipped) Armagh then identified this and decided to give us the kick out and then we had no penetration what so ever. Playing attacking player in defence doesn't work and our 6 was cleaned out which is unfair to the lad. Donegal are a good example of what can be done when a good coach is put in charge, Louth are another county who have shown that when good coaches are appointed you get the best out of the players. The Football development committee has to take some responsibility for the current situation also.

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 06/02/2024 09:53:02    2524697

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im sick of all the excuses now!
First teh Sigerson, then COR stating we must be patient as this will take years and now we have lads on here blaming the Rules committee because the rules (where you still have to solo, handpass, tackle a certain way, kick the ball, only take 4 steps between solos etc.....) all of a sudden done suit Meath.
And now the development committee are the problem!!
The fact of the matter is we have decent players there - no different to Louth who just had a manager and coaching staff that knew how to get the best out of their players and had them playing to a system thats very hard to break down.
Same with Donegal who were one of the worst performing teams in the country last few years and will probably walk Div 2 with the same players!
Same with a lot of other counties who are not winning underage All Irelands every year!!!
People need to get their heads out of the sand and call it for what it is! If McGuinness or Harte were in charge of Meath for the same timeframe we would be 2 from 2 now!! and promotion on the cards!
I don know what people expect from our development committee! Unless you have the same senior voice telling underage coaches what to do in terms of systems and tactics so they can grow into a specific Meath style.
this malarkey of trying to "develop" the next bunch of Cliffords is ridiculous!!
you could have 5 cliffords on that meath team at the moment and they would look sub-standard.

JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 246 - 06/02/2024 12:37:26    2524734

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We can makes all the excuses in the world and dress it up anyway we like.

People saying we don't have the players... No we don't have the players to be competing with the big dogs of Kerry Dublin etc for All Irelands but we certainly have the players to be doing better than we are currently .

Have Fermanagh better players than us ?? I would say no. Have Louth better players than us ?? I would say no. And yet they are out performing us . WHY ??

Because they are well drilled well organised with them all knowing the plan whatever that plan is and sticking to it. And probably most importantly for me they have them highly motivated .

Has our management got our team well drilled well organised highly motivated and all playing to a game plan ??

And before anyone says sure we drew with Fermanagh and we might beat Louth . Yes this is true but the point is the likes of fermanagh are getting the absolute best out of what they have availablle to them and have them performing and possibly over performing . Same with Louth they are at the very least performing to their absolute best and possibly like Fermanagh over performing.

If we performed to our absolute best we would beat fermanagh with 5 or 6 to spare and would have enough to beat Louth and if we over performed we could run the likes of Armagh and Donegal close .

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 06/02/2024 13:54:00    2524752

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Replying To JonnieG:  "im sick of all the excuses now!
First teh Sigerson, then COR stating we must be patient as this will take years and now we have lads on here blaming the Rules committee because the rules (where you still have to solo, handpass, tackle a certain way, kick the ball, only take 4 steps between solos etc.....) all of a sudden done suit Meath.
And now the development committee are the problem!!
The fact of the matter is we have decent players there - no different to Louth who just had a manager and coaching staff that knew how to get the best out of their players and had them playing to a system thats very hard to break down.
Same with Donegal who were one of the worst performing teams in the country last few years and will probably walk Div 2 with the same players!
Same with a lot of other counties who are not winning underage All Irelands every year!!!
People need to get their heads out of the sand and call it for what it is! If McGuinness or Harte were in charge of Meath for the same timeframe we would be 2 from 2 now!! and promotion on the cards!
I don know what people expect from our development committee! Unless you have the same senior voice telling underage coaches what to do in terms of systems and tactics so they can grow into a specific Meath style.
this malarkey of trying to "develop" the next bunch of Cliffords is ridiculous!!
you could have 5 cliffords on that meath team at the moment and they would look sub-standard."
Have to agree with this. With the renumeration structure in place we should have the conditions set for a top manager to come in and get the results out of this set of players.

TownlandGael (Meath) - Posts: 9 - 06/02/2024 14:47:52    2524767

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Replying To Diego:  "Very good assessment. Doesn't matter how young the players are, you expect the basics to be decent and be well drilled. Certainly tackling, a basic of the game, is terrible. Some of the easy frees we gave to Armagh in the first half were unforgivable. Look lazy At tackling. We scored some excellent points early on with direct play, with 2 in particular showing how Gaelic football can be played by kicking the ball. The. All of a sudden we started short kicking out and slowing the game down. Game Over. We don't look match fit and lack real pace in general. In the regional championship which COR speaks very high off I would have like to seen Senior club players involved. The Sigerson excuse doesn't wash with me. Canavan from Tyrone can play Wed - Sunday - Wed and star for.college and county. Anyway, it's Louth up next and it will be interesting to see what team starts. Cathal Hickey got dropped for a poor performance against Fermanagh, if the same applies from Saturday's game there should be wholesale changes."
Yes;agree we do look sluggish and our play is too slow so yes that would come on the manager but tackling you learn that as a kid or club level.if an inter county manager has to teach his team how to tackle then things are at a very low ebb.We scored a couple of lovely scores v Armagh and also v Fermanagh through quick direct ball but unfortunately they were the exception rather than the rule.You have to get the ball in early and direct for it to work but unfortunately we dont do it enough whether we dont have the confidence,have the players to do it or players to see it I dont know.You obviously cant do it the whole time with teams having sweepers back so that's where we need to mix it up by running at teams but we dont seem to be blessed with lads who have serious pace and I think that's why we get to their 45 and start knocking the ball over and back and eventually lose it.Its the way o Rourke wants us to play but we don't have a player like a PJ gillic or Giles who could pass the ball 40 yards into a players chest.we could get a defensive coach in that would make us harder to beat but do we have the forwards to win us games then?I do think though we should be giving teams like Armagh a better go of it and we did to an extent for the first 30 mins but its something o Rourke has to look at.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 06/02/2024 15:17:08    2524777

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "Yes;agree we do look sluggish and our play is too slow so yes that would come on the manager but tackling you learn that as a kid or club level.if an inter county manager has to teach his team how to tackle then things are at a very low ebb.We scored a couple of lovely scores v Armagh and also v Fermanagh through quick direct ball but unfortunately they were the exception rather than the rule.You have to get the ball in early and direct for it to work but unfortunately we dont do it enough whether we dont have the confidence,have the players to do it or players to see it I dont know.You obviously cant do it the whole time with teams having sweepers back so that's where we need to mix it up by running at teams but we dont seem to be blessed with lads who have serious pace and I think that's why we get to their 45 and start knocking the ball over and back and eventually lose it.Its the way o Rourke wants us to play but we don't have a player like a PJ gillic or Giles who could pass the ball 40 yards into a players chest.we could get a defensive coach in that would make us harder to beat but do we have the forwards to win us games then?I do think though we should be giving teams like Armagh a better go of it and we did to an extent for the first 30 mins but its something o Rourke has to look at."
Sorry meant to say for the first 30 mins we competed but that's not good enough needs to be for 70 plus and why did we suddenly drop off?Also yeahdont buy the sigerson excuses myself.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 06/02/2024 15:29:29    2524780

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I agree with you. But the influx of people or the state of the senior club game is not the cause of not having a coherent strategy to defend, and a clear game plan, players buying Ito that system. To say that's cause of new people coming into county is nonsensical. not one person here is saying we should be winning all ire or Leinster we are miles off that even with the above been implemented. We lost eivers and garrigan. Eivers is now coaching Donegal. We have a problem the problem is evident , by making excuses for the problem won't help us. What will help us is a top modern day coach who is given free rein. Will we win all ire or Leinster ? No. Will we be competing in an average div 2. ? Yes."
Well Royaldunne,as you say we had Eivers and Garrigan in with us last year yet you said last year it wasn't good or working with them and now you want them back?Who is this coach you want in?Genuine question.I agree things aren't going as smooth as we'd like and the heat will ramp up if we dont improve in the league and I'm sure o Rourke knows that.i dont see the county board sacking o Rourke until the end of the year at the earliest if he doesn't turn things round. I may be wrong but i think winning the tailteann cup (been in the All ireland proper)they will let him stay and have a crack at that.Not having a pop at you just who do get in instead and how long do we give them?

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 06/02/2024 16:01:28    2524793

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Replying To TownlandGael:  "Have to agree with this. With the renumeration structure in place we should have the conditions set for a top manager to come in and get the results out of this set of players."
Yes indeed when the money and costing (particularily the most recent increase ). in preparing the team comes into focus it does sharpen the pencil so to speak. Its an expensive game/business for all counties it seems The one area now where full proper analysis is justified in a busines like way is Value for Money starting with quality versus quantity of training sessions. Monitoring and weighting of all expenditure. related.to team preparation
Perhaps by this business focus increasing it would encourage more attention on other vital areas like dare i mention it 1 Properly constructed and properly timed REVIEWS. The PRIMARY objective here is to establish and maintain BEST PRACTISE In everything.Sharp focus on adjustments required on an on going basis to be competitive in the modern game from coaching to all areas known to lead to potential improvement in on field performance I believe that it demonstrates a healthy ATTITUDE to show every attempt is being made to improve standards by design rather than hope improvement may happen anyway just by itself. A massive job required to upgrade on and off the field. Perhaps something is happening pro actively to upgrade standards and modernise thinking. I am not aware of anything and if nothing well then we can expect more of the same as seen in in the last 20 years. Maybe the County Board are leading here with workshops with invited guests like proven Coaches to lead discussions. etc etc. Our players deserve the best development in terms of all areas of preparation. It looks like we continue to do the same thing without taking stock and upgrading for years and still hope for a better outcome.Its not going to happen .LEADERSHIP and VISION required from the top for this important NEED which by its nature will take considerabe time and effort. In my view this is vital . The only option may happen anyway if we continue as is The massive step in admitting officially that we are not to bothered about being to competitive .Its not worth the trouble,and it will cost too much money. Liquidation. ?
I jest of course.......but we have to avoid self destruction after 20 years....doing nothing new is not an option!

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 06/02/2024 20:01:20    2524829

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "Well Royaldunne,as you say we had Eivers and Garrigan in with us last year yet you said last year it wasn't good or working with them and now you want them back?Who is this coach you want in?Genuine question.I agree things aren't going as smooth as we'd like and the heat will ramp up if we dont improve in the league and I'm sure o Rourke knows that.i dont see the county board sacking o Rourke until the end of the year at the earliest if he doesn't turn things round. I may be wrong but i think winning the tailteann cup (been in the All ireland proper)they will let him stay and have a crack at that.Not having a pop at you just who do get in instead and how long do we give them?"
I answered this with exact details but it wasn't posted. Twice.
I'll try a very toned down version. They didn't have the input they expected or is happening with eivers in Donegal.
Second part. One name. Brennan

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/02/2024 20:06:34    2524831

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Reading allot of the long messages here most if not all are just pure drivel, surely the moderator should consider a maximum word count, Posters can surely make there point in less then 100 words making it easier for the rest of us to read and for the moderator to moderate.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 681 - 06/02/2024 21:28:59    2524842

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "Reading allot of the long messages here most if not all are just pure drivel, surely the moderator should consider a maximum word count, Posters can surely make there point in less then 100 words making it easier for the rest of us to read and for the moderator to moderate."
Here's the word police now!!

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 06/02/2024 21:55:22    2524845

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