Meath Forum

Meath V Fermanagh

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "No gloating here i was suprised by cavans victory yesterday and delighted by how well they played but there was always a chance that Kildare would take us for granted and playing the game in carlow also helped. I know where we are and will be happy if we survive in division 2 this season. Last year for what ever reason in all the big games under mickey graham we failed to perform especially against armagh who are an improving team but more so against Down who i have always considered a very flakey and soft team. They proved this against meath in the final where meath could not have played any worse and still won. I unlike many cavan supporters all ways like to see meath and monaghan doing well over the years but i cant see ye going anywhere with o rourke."
ah thats ok Breffni, fair play for such a measured response. I assumed you were fishing for bites. I have a fondness for all of Meath's neighbours as well to be honest, and the whole area gets a lift if any of their teams are going well. I freely admit to be worried for Meath travelling to Cavan in the next few fixtures. I was there in 2018 or 2019 when Cavan won the game at their ease only for a bit of a Meath surge in the final 20 it would have been an 8-10 point drubbing. I am liking how this division is playing out, it's looking wide open. Lets hope we both get lucky in the coming weeks!

I would have imagined that Meath would target the Fermanagh match, being the first game and being at home but it obviously hasnt worked out that way now. However, a small mercy is the shared point.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 28/01/2024 19:13:49    2522806

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I'd agree that I would hope we could beat Fermanagh regardless of the issue of college commitments but it's a problem we will just have to put up with for the next couple of weeks.
Diarmuid Moriarty couldn't play a meaningful role because of a Sigersom injury and UCD were not playing last week. Colm said we have 13 involved in the quarterfinals this week and also two more who were playing Freahers last week.
A lot of them are getting bursaries or are in GAA scholarship programmes. That means they have to commit themselves at the expense of Meath during the
Sigerson, even if they weren't playing last week.
Colm mentions it as it's relevant. In his programme note's yesterday he said ''One player missing is another player's opportunity.'
On we roll and looking forward to the spin north next weekend.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 478 - 28/01/2024 21:14:10    2522844

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Terrible start to season.
Fermanagh at home was the easiest fixture we have in the league and failed to win it.
Hopefully we can get it together in the rest of the league.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 28/01/2024 22:47:31    2522874

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Morning all. Very disappointing performance on Saturday. I don't want to get too bogged down in it as it is only January - however Meath will be lucky to survive this group with performances like that. The usual excuses being rolled out again this early re Sigerson cup - as if Meath are the only team in the country with players in both competitions. Again, it is only January and I don't want to get ahead of myself but with the excitement coming into the year I thought we could get the win - and convincingly at that. The fact we have so many players playing - and playing well at Sigerson Cup level would suggest we have the bones of a team. With correct guidance and managerial prowess they could do very well. Anyway, have a great week everybody.

TownlandGael (Meath) - Posts: 9 - 29/01/2024 09:01:08    2522901

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The league is a strange one to figure out. Meath went down and bet cork in cork last January but that didn't spur on any great league campaign. This league can only be judge after maybe 3 games so really the hope that so improvement can be seen as we progress. But IMO if we are relegated then realistically COR isn't working.

Rickoshay (Meath) - Posts: 30 - 29/01/2024 09:30:00    2522908

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Eight of the starting 15 on Saturday have been on the panel for five or more seasons at this stage. I'm sorry, but how long does a player have to playing before they are deemed to have loads of experience? I bring this up, as it is the local media who are offering this up as excuse, and in fairness to O'Rourke, he mentioned the Sigerson cup at the weekend only because the local media keep asking him about it and how tough it must be on them. Please stop going on about it. Do they think Meath are the only county effected by players playing Sigerson Cup, injuries, experienced players missing? Monaghan, on Saturday night, were missing a whole host of regulars and had a lot of new players in their team, and they went up to Croke Park to play the All Ireland Champions and beat them. While in Meath, we are making nonsense excuses for not being able to beat Fermanagh at home.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 29/01/2024 10:59:39    2522939

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I dont really get all this stuff about why are we not starting Moriarity or kinsella or Caufield etc!! As if a couple of young lads are going to turn around Meaths fortunes!
Frayne fair enough but still nowadays it is not just about being accurate in front of the posts. You have to work hard for your team. Till the end. And a lot of those youngsters I saw on Saturday were so gung ho about getting scores they forgot about tracking back quickly, or putting pressure on defenders coming out with the ball! And they took some very poor optons. That what you get with youngsters!! Rawness with a lot of mistakes! Thats why you need a proper balance and proper coaching! McGowan got on some lovely scores in the first half but should have been taken off early in teh second. Tired too easily! same with a lot of others. And nothng to do with sigerson!
One simple move - putting Keoghan man marking their 13 would have won us that match...Simple!!! He was still bossing things in the last few minutes! Thats whay intercounty fittness is about!
Again the tactics (or lack off) were bewildering! It was as if they were told to just bomb forward at all times and forget about defence! and even when there did retreat to defend they thought their job was done when they passed the 45. didnt seem to be any system to pick up either their own man or the nearest man when defending - they were clueless as to what to do and thats not the players fault - for the last 3-4 months they should have been coached on what to do!!
And funnily eough like all the posters here who wanted to see these youngsters coming on because they are scoring well in sigerson or at U20 level - COR seemed to just want to throw more and more of these forwards on as subs and did very little with the defense!
I said it from the start, the players are not the problem here - they are not being coached to any sort of system! COR needs to forget about trying to find the next Cliffoer and needs to find a top class coach first!

JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 246 - 29/01/2024 12:37:44    2522977

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Eight of the starting 15 on Saturday have been on the panel for five or more seasons at this stage. I'm sorry, but how long does a player have to playing before they are deemed to have loads of experience? I bring this up, as it is the local media who are offering this up as excuse, and in fairness to O'Rourke, he mentioned the Sigerson cup at the weekend only because the local media keep asking him about it and how tough it must be on them. Please stop going on about it. Do they think Meath are the only county effected by players playing Sigerson Cup, injuries, experienced players missing? Monaghan, on Saturday night, were missing a whole host of regulars and had a lot of new players in their team, and they went up to Croke Park to play the All Ireland Champions and beat them. While in Meath, we are making nonsense excuses for not being able to beat Fermanagh at home."
That is a very accurate post. And you are right to highlight that Colm's only mention of sigerson was when local media brought it up , so he has to answer it. Seen post on x from local respected journalist trying to play the young debuts blah blah card too. One lad pointed out how long some players were on the team and the comparison with Monaghan is answer was to block him. It's really a case of head no evil see no evil. Media are meant to repot accurately not put a spin on something. As I say Colm did not mention it until asked. So that for me is something

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/01/2024 13:06:45    2522989

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Replying To JonnieG:  "I dont really get all this stuff about why are we not starting Moriarity or kinsella or Caufield etc!! As if a couple of young lads are going to turn around Meaths fortunes!
Frayne fair enough but still nowadays it is not just about being accurate in front of the posts. You have to work hard for your team. Till the end. And a lot of those youngsters I saw on Saturday were so gung ho about getting scores they forgot about tracking back quickly, or putting pressure on defenders coming out with the ball! And they took some very poor optons. That what you get with youngsters!! Rawness with a lot of mistakes! Thats why you need a proper balance and proper coaching! McGowan got on some lovely scores in the first half but should have been taken off early in teh second. Tired too easily! same with a lot of others. And nothng to do with sigerson!
One simple move - putting Keoghan man marking their 13 would have won us that match...Simple!!! He was still bossing things in the last few minutes! Thats whay intercounty fittness is about!
Again the tactics (or lack off) were bewildering! It was as if they were told to just bomb forward at all times and forget about defence! and even when there did retreat to defend they thought their job was done when they passed the 45. didnt seem to be any system to pick up either their own man or the nearest man when defending - they were clueless as to what to do and thats not the players fault - for the last 3-4 months they should have been coached on what to do!!
And funnily eough like all the posters here who wanted to see these youngsters coming on because they are scoring well in sigerson or at U20 level - COR seemed to just want to throw more and more of these forwards on as subs and did very little with the defense!
I said it from the start, the players are not the problem here - they are not being coached to any sort of system! COR needs to forget about trying to find the next Cliffoer and needs to find a top class coach first!"
I'm disappointed that I can't disagree with much of what you said.
What we need NOW not at end of league is a proper decent coach. It won't make much difference to league in next couple of matches but hopefully halfway through will see improvement. That's what cb needs to do. Now

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/01/2024 13:11:03    2522993

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Replying To JonnieG:  "I dont really get all this stuff about why are we not starting Moriarity or kinsella or Caufield etc!! As if a couple of young lads are going to turn around Meaths fortunes!
Frayne fair enough but still nowadays it is not just about being accurate in front of the posts. You have to work hard for your team. Till the end. And a lot of those youngsters I saw on Saturday were so gung ho about getting scores they forgot about tracking back quickly, or putting pressure on defenders coming out with the ball! And they took some very poor optons. That what you get with youngsters!! Rawness with a lot of mistakes! Thats why you need a proper balance and proper coaching! McGowan got on some lovely scores in the first half but should have been taken off early in teh second. Tired too easily! same with a lot of others. And nothng to do with sigerson!
One simple move - putting Keoghan man marking their 13 would have won us that match...Simple!!! He was still bossing things in the last few minutes! Thats whay intercounty fittness is about!
Again the tactics (or lack off) were bewildering! It was as if they were told to just bomb forward at all times and forget about defence! and even when there did retreat to defend they thought their job was done when they passed the 45. didnt seem to be any system to pick up either their own man or the nearest man when defending - they were clueless as to what to do and thats not the players fault - for the last 3-4 months they should have been coached on what to do!!
And funnily eough like all the posters here who wanted to see these youngsters coming on because they are scoring well in sigerson or at U20 level - COR seemed to just want to throw more and more of these forwards on as subs and did very little with the defense!
I said it from the start, the players are not the problem here - they are not being coached to any sort of system! COR needs to forget about trying to find the next Cliffoer and needs to find a top class coach first!"
I don't rate Caulfield and Kinsella but Frayne and moriarty just have to start every game end of story. Frayne might be young but hes mature beyond his years and his class really shone through on his league debut, and moriarty is just so obviously better than some of the forwards we have starting. The other one for me is Billy Hogan, Sean brennan is steady but Billy Hogan is just a level above brennan in my opinion.

redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 404 - 29/01/2024 14:16:14    2523014

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Replying To JonnieG:  "I dont really get all this stuff about why are we not starting Moriarity or kinsella or Caufield etc!! As if a couple of young lads are going to turn around Meaths fortunes!
Frayne fair enough but still nowadays it is not just about being accurate in front of the posts. You have to work hard for your team. Till the end. And a lot of those youngsters I saw on Saturday were so gung ho about getting scores they forgot about tracking back quickly, or putting pressure on defenders coming out with the ball! And they took some very poor optons. That what you get with youngsters!! Rawness with a lot of mistakes! Thats why you need a proper balance and proper coaching! McGowan got on some lovely scores in the first half but should have been taken off early in teh second. Tired too easily! same with a lot of others. And nothng to do with sigerson!
One simple move - putting Keoghan man marking their 13 would have won us that match...Simple!!! He was still bossing things in the last few minutes! Thats whay intercounty fittness is about!
Again the tactics (or lack off) were bewildering! It was as if they were told to just bomb forward at all times and forget about defence! and even when there did retreat to defend they thought their job was done when they passed the 45. didnt seem to be any system to pick up either their own man or the nearest man when defending - they were clueless as to what to do and thats not the players fault - for the last 3-4 months they should have been coached on what to do!!
And funnily eough like all the posters here who wanted to see these youngsters coming on because they are scoring well in sigerson or at U20 level - COR seemed to just want to throw more and more of these forwards on as subs and did very little with the defense!
I said it from the start, the players are not the problem here - they are not being coached to any sort of system! COR needs to forget about trying to find the next Cliffoer and needs to find a top class coach first!"
Dare I say...I think I'm starting to agree with you now JonnieG regarding the coaching situation.

What I witnessed on Saturday was a regression instead of progression. I definitely think we have decent players that could take us to the next level. But they are clueless in how to play against a northern defensive systems, in particular. I was shocked at how poor they were. Anyone thinking 'ah sure a draw is better than a loss', 'we got a point', 'the glass is half full' etc... you'd want to cop yourself on. It was Fermanagh for God sake.

There was an air of inevitability in the air in Navan 12 mins or so into the game, where it just felt like everyone realised that we had picked up where we left off after coming out of Newbridge/Tullamore last year. There was no obvious system being utilised. Just hold the ball and hope a breakthrough will appear for an attacker. The Ultan Kelm situation was farcical with the amount of room and possession he got.

There was just this depressing vibe over the terrace side. It's hard to explain. Fans were so quiet (myself included) and only really stirred when the ref rode us on a few decisions or when we wouldn't pass the ball for a near certain goal. Not something I've witnessed too many times before in PT. It was just like, we accepted our lot for the 2024. Another year in the Doldrums.

I was naive to think that COR had the many problems from last year ironed out and that the Tailteann cup win would spur this young group of lads on to greater things...I really hope I'm wrong

Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 383 - 29/01/2024 15:29:44    2523036

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i hate to say this but i actually have a sinking feeling about this league season. I knew we needed 2 points on the board after saturday to give us a bit of breating space. i thought maybe 6 points was a good possibility, beating cork, fermanagh and louth and losing the rest would keep us up. Id get hard enough to see us beating Louth now, perhaps Kildare arent as good as i imagined. so we could end on 4/5 points it might just be enough. that draw yesterday could be the point thats saves us from relgeation like limerick last year or it could be the one that relegates us. i fear it may be the former. wouldnt at all shock me if that was only point we get in the league, i hope to God im wrong

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 767 - 29/01/2024 15:40:04    2523041

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Be interesting to see what turn out is for next home match. Hard to argue with what you say and I'm generally very positive about COR despite not being a huge fan of him at club management level.

The litmus test is are we at least as good as the sum of our parts? We weren't last year until the Down match in second half. And we certainly were not last Saturday. All one wants from a manager is that they eke out every drop of talent out of a team in a coherent and structured way. No more than that. Worrying.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 29/01/2024 15:47:13    2523049

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Be interesting to see what turn out is for next home match. Hard to argue with what you say and I'm generally very positive about COR despite not being a huge fan of him at club management level.

The litmus test is are we at least as good as the sum of our parts? We weren't last year until the Down match in second half. And we certainly were not last Saturday. All one wants from a manager is that they eke out every drop of talent out of a team in a coherent and structured way. No more than that. Worrying."
The thing is we seen in the 2nd half against Down in the TC final the potential of the team so why aren't we playing like that consistently? That's on the coaches. We started well in the league last year and drifted off, let's hope it's opposite this year. But you have to fear relegation is coming. I'm not sure where we're going to pick up points? Conor Gray is a massive player for us. Hopefully he's back sooner rather than later. Frayne looks decent but Shane Walsh needs to push on as every game we're wondering where scores will come from.

NYRoyal (USA) - Posts: 31 - 29/01/2024 16:56:59    2523076

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Replying To redser123:  "I don't rate Caulfield and Kinsella but Frayne and moriarty just have to start every game end of story. Frayne might be young but hes mature beyond his years and his class really shone through on his league debut, and moriarty is just so obviously better than some of the forwards we have starting. The other one for me is Billy Hogan, Sean brennan is steady but Billy Hogan is just a level above brennan in my opinion."
Billy hogan is better based on what? he's a kid ffs

9774739191637399 (Meath) - Posts: 18 - 29/01/2024 17:03:11    2523085

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Replying To 9774739191637399:  "Billy hogan is better based on what? he's a kid ffs"
I was banging on for Conor Gray to be starting last year and I kept getting told "He's just a kid", I was saying the same for Eoghan Frayne, Billy is the same age as both. You seem like you've definitely been watching all 3 of them over the last few years...

redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 404 - 29/01/2024 17:13:15    2523089

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Replying To dickie10:  "i hate to say this but i actually have a sinking feeling about this league season. I knew we needed 2 points on the board after saturday to give us a bit of breating space. i thought maybe 6 points was a good possibility, beating cork, fermanagh and louth and losing the rest would keep us up. Id get hard enough to see us beating Louth now, perhaps Kildare arent as good as i imagined. so we could end on 4/5 points it might just be enough. that draw yesterday could be the point thats saves us from relgeation like limerick last year or it could be the one that relegates us. i fear it may be the former. wouldnt at all shock me if that was only point we get in the league, i hope to God im wrong"
While I can understand where you are coming from , we have to have faith that management can turn this around. They are blessed with best group of players in years. We got to div 1 with (and this is no disrespect to anyone on that team, ( but arguably a less naturally talented group) . But they punched above their weight. Played for their manager etc. There is only one man that can change our fortunes and that is Colm. The book stops with him. I would have loved to see that game back again to see exactly what we need to improve on.
Forget about who starts or doesn't for a moment. What we need. Is
1, a clear game plan, and if it is not working a plan B, we all including myself was critical of previous managers who had one way of playing and didn't have a plan B when that didn't happen, Colm so far hasn't shown any different either. No plan B.
2, play with heads up and be prepared to pass if needed and don't glory hunt
3, if no one is in better position back yourself , how many times did we look terrified to take a shot ? I counted at least 10. Are they afraid of management?
4. For Christ sake don't give away soft frees. Tackle hard but legal.
5. Stop standing back and letting fellas run through you

All of that is on Colm to instil. And indeed inspire the team. There seems to be a negative feel around the performances, why that is I don't know.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/01/2024 18:26:41    2523122

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Replying To Selwyn:  "Dare I say...I think I'm starting to agree with you now JonnieG regarding the coaching situation.

What I witnessed on Saturday was a regression instead of progression. I definitely think we have decent players that could take us to the next level. But they are clueless in how to play against a northern defensive systems, in particular. I was shocked at how poor they were. Anyone thinking 'ah sure a draw is better than a loss', 'we got a point', 'the glass is half full' etc... you'd want to cop yourself on. It was Fermanagh for God sake.

There was an air of inevitability in the air in Navan 12 mins or so into the game, where it just felt like everyone realised that we had picked up where we left off after coming out of Newbridge/Tullamore last year. There was no obvious system being utilised. Just hold the ball and hope a breakthrough will appear for an attacker. The Ultan Kelm situation was farcical with the amount of room and possession he got.

There was just this depressing vibe over the terrace side. It's hard to explain. Fans were so quiet (myself included) and only really stirred when the ref rode us on a few decisions or when we wouldn't pass the ball for a near certain goal. Not something I've witnessed too many times before in PT. It was just like, we accepted our lot for the 2024. Another year in the Doldrums.

I was naive to think that COR had the many problems from last year ironed out and that the Tailteann cup win would spur this young group of lads on to greater things...I really hope I'm wrong"
I'd say after 15 minutes it sunk in in the stand. It was Offaly ,Kildare ,Limerick all over. And what I was seeing was my worst fears. That playing poor enough div 3/4 teams had done us no good. The hope that confidence would build from the win was slowly been dashed. Remember this is a team who didn't do well in TC and was missing many of its top players who for whatever reason wasn't on the team. We hear about young this and young that. But no one seems to understand that was quite a young Fermanagh team too. One of only two counties who have never won a provincial championship, this was in our home venue . I pray that Colm can get his act together and put a string of results together that may even push us towards promotion (that is the goal for every team in division 2) if I'm been honest should we get relegated then Colm must go before championship, no point waiting on review. However I sincerely hope that does not happen as the rebuilding work that would have to be done by next management would be unreal.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/01/2024 18:38:02    2523124

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Replying To 9774739191637399:  "Billy hogan is better based on what? he's a kid ffs"
In fairness he's only 2 years younger than Brennan. Brennan has only played the Tailteann cup and 1 league game so not exactly a wealth of experience. He is solid but I think Billy Hogan's kickouts particularly his range (very important into a wind) is a good bit better than Brennan's. But given that Brennan is in the jersey I'd imagine he'll stay there baring mistakes

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 29/01/2024 19:27:13    2523144

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I had the same "sinking" feeling after 10/15 minutes as well. I have had it many times over the past 10 or so years. It's just a sudden realisation of "oh sh*t, this is not the plan". And the longer it goes on, and the closer the scores are, the worse it gets. It has set in with Meath supporters the past while, they expect to lose in those types of games, or else scrape through with a dodgy goal or a moment of brilliance from a Keogan run etc. I remember we met Sligo in Navan in a qualifier 4/5 years ago and only for a big move from Mickey Burke to set up a clincher point with a minute to go, we were in big trouble. Only for a scrappy goal from a wayward high ball against Offaly in the Leinster championship in 2019, we were the second best team that day too.

It was bad last weekend, however the worst I ever felt was in Pearse Park in 2018 when Meath met Longford in the Leinster Championship first round. 15/20 minutes in, I knew we were goosed. I have never been so depressed so suddenly. And the ground packed with Meath supporters too. The Longford fans were bemused, but the Meath fans all collectively knew... If we could break out of that cycle of performance against teams we ought to be beating on paper, Id be thankful!

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 29/01/2024 19:32:38    2523147

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