Meath Forum

Meath Clubs In Leinster 2023

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Wasn't surprised unfortunately that Summerhill got stuffed in the end. As I said in a previous post kildare club football is streets ahead of meath club football in terms of quality. Why exactly that is I have no idea but it is.

The top 4 teams in Kildare would beat all clubs in meath probably 8 out of 10 times."
...."why exactly that is , i have no idea ...."...It is quite simple in terms of Words, But very very difficult in terms of Action. So, Kildare Clubs , generally, and County, have embraced where the Game has been dragged(taken) whatever way you want to describe the Journey over the last 20 years, So that is in simple terms described as "professional". And that is not in the context of payment , but in detail. Detail of preparation, be that Skill sets, Strength & conditioning , video analysis, mental development ...all aspects that one can think of vis a v is a Professional Sport.
Now before anyone starts screaming about our Development Squads and talking about what we have in place , the real difficulty is looking beyond What we have in place with Who we have driving those Systems . Be that in individual Clubs or indeed with the County. Kildare are benefitting by some serious work done as well by some Clubs (like Naas ) and others who have had these New Standards in place now since the early part of the 2000s .
I saw that Naas Team win a Feile in 2014-2014? ...in fact i think they may have done or nearly done the double , Now if anyone thinks that Those lads just "happen" to come along together, they are kidding themselves .
A simple example is in the Larger Towns & Villages . We are still trying to deal with the Problem of "Numbers". And our solution is still to try and involve Parents to deal with the quantity of Kids down at the nursery. And this is the start of our problem.

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 06/11/2023 11:00:56    2511703

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Replying To COUNTYTOCOUNTY:  "If they this if they that. At the end of the day they didn't. It annoys me reading all about Ratoath being riddled with injuries, give me one club in this championship that played the campaign with no injuries"
Ratoath have the best squad in both football and hurling.

2020Vision (Meath) - Posts: 29 - 06/11/2023 11:50:20    2511719

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Replying To Roger:  "While the senior county champions do not have a good record when it comes to winning or getting to finals, I think you are a little harsh on Summerhill. There were two points in the game with ten minutes to go, which was good considering Summerhill conceded 1-2 without reply in the first five minutes of the game.
Naas are multiple Kildare champions, looked assured and had goal chances. They broke for a goal with 10 to go and added some late points when Summerhill were chasing a goal rather than taking points.
Last year Ratoath lost a semi-final by a point after a disastrous first half display against The Downs in Croke Park.
There are plenty of counties in Leinster where one club team is dominant, such as Kilmacud, Naas or St Lomans. They are seasoned and tend to get to the business end of provincial championships.
Four or five clubs could win the Meath SFC, there is a better spread of ability rather than one outstanding team.
Having said that, if Ratoath had a full deck, were injury free and their hurlers were out of the championship early, they would be very close in Leinster."
When you only kick 3 points from play, you don't deserve to win any game. Summerhill were also cut open multiple times too, had it not been for a couple of saves and some missed opportunities Nass would have been out of sight.

Summerhill could barley get over Tullamore, never mind going against the Dublin or Kildare champions.

Give over with Ratoath, what exactly have they done in Leinster when they had the chance?

Plus the Kildare championship is strong, to say it's a gimme that Nass go and win it is wrong. They just got over Cellbridge in the final, there's a couple of teams in there that could win it, and the top 4/5 teams would probably beat anything in the Meath championship.

hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 251 - 06/11/2023 11:51:33    2511720

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They have done more in Leinster than most others have over the past 2-5 years. Ratoath lost by a point in the Leinster Semi Final last year and probably left it behind them as they didn't really perform. Summerhill were comprehensively beaten yesterday. The dual aspect cost Ratoath on the run in, in both codes.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 06/11/2023 12:07:08    2511724

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Looking back over Meath teams performance in Leinster across Senior, Intermediate and Junior since 2002 makes for some interesting reading. Looking at 2002 to 2022!

2002 was the last year a Meath team won Leinster - Dunshaughlin, while Skyrne in 2004 are the only other team in that period to contest a Senior final.

In Intermediate, 3 Meath teams have won Leinster, Wolfe Tones in 2004, Ratoath in 2015 and Colmcilles in 2016. 3 others contested finals, Don/Ash in 2007, Nobber 2010 and Ballinlough in 2014. (neither Nobber or Ballinlough are Senior today!)

In Junior, the record is much better with 8 Meath wins since 2002 - Nobber 2002, Tones, 2003, Clan Na nGael in 2007, Moynalvey in 2008, 2009 Longwood, 2010 Ballinabrackey, 2015 Curraha and 2022 Castletown. 2 others contested a final, Clann Na nGael in 2019 and St Ultans in 2006.

Dublin clubs have had 13 wins at Senior while they have had only 1 at intermediate and 1 at Junior!!

Kildare have had 2 wins at Senior, 5 at Intermediate and 1 at Junior!

It would appear we are very competitive at Junior, reasonable competitive at Intermediate and not competitive at Senior. That would suggest to me that relatively speaking our Junior Championship standard is higher than most others in Leinster and our Senior is less so! I think we have too many teams in our Senior Championship and there isn't enough meaning in the group games!

I suppose it's not surprising that our performance at County level reflects the performance of our Senior teams!

Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 511 - 06/11/2023 13:43:12    2511751

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Sorry what 4 or 5 clubs can win meath sfc ?"
We have had three different clubs win the Meath SFC for the last three years, and how Kells didn't win it in 2020 is still a mystery to everyone except for Joey Wallace... which would have been four different winners.
Any of the semi-finalists plus Dunshaughlin could have won the SFC this year. There is not a lot between them.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 478 - 06/11/2023 15:48:14    2511786

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Replying To COUNTYTOCOUNTY:  "If they this if they that. At the end of the day they didn't. It annoys me reading all about Ratoath being riddled with injuries, give me one club in this championship that played the campaign with no injuries"
Usually the team that wins the championship gets a good run injury wise. Ratoath were blighted with injuries this year and it cost them big time. Last year Summerhill were without Barry Dardis for the final and it was probably the difference between winning and losing.
I wouldn't be getting too annoyed about that.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 478 - 06/11/2023 15:53:05    2511788

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It bothers me to say this. But club football in Meath seems to be behind Kildare and Westmeath. Let's leave dubs out of it. Lomans are seasoned in this and Nass also have the measure of most. But even last year with the Downs getting to Leinster final. Is it structure ? For me summerhill were the best team all year in Meath and deserved their win. Injures happen and that may have hindered rathoath but I feel summerhill still would have sneaked it this year. Anyway hard luck to summerhill and particularly Connor Gillespie. Hopefully not too down.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/11/2023 16:23:55    2511799

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Replying To royaldunne:  "It bothers me to say this. But club football in Meath seems to be behind Kildare and Westmeath. Let's leave dubs out of it. Lomans are seasoned in this and Nass also have the measure of most. But even last year with the Downs getting to Leinster final. Is it structure ? For me summerhill were the best team all year in Meath and deserved their win. Injures happen and that may have hindered rathoath but I feel summerhill still would have sneaked it this year. Anyway hard luck to summerhill and particularly Connor Gillespie. Hopefully not too down."
This old chessnut! In over 50years of club football, Tyrone have only contributed one Ulster Club Championship winning team…yet they laud the Tyrone championship as the marquee competition. It's 20years since any club has done back-to-back! Cavan have never produced a winner.

You couldn't say Tyrone club football is inferior to other Counties in Ulster or across Ireland! Meath football is equally competitive.

GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 114 - 06/11/2023 18:52:27    2511818

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Replying To royaldunne:  "It bothers me to say this. But club football in Meath seems to be behind Kildare and Westmeath. Let's leave dubs out of it. Lomans are seasoned in this and Nass also have the measure of most. But even last year with the Downs getting to Leinster final. Is it structure ? For me summerhill were the best team all year in Meath and deserved their win. Injures happen and that may have hindered rathoath but I feel summerhill still would have sneaked it this year. Anyway hard luck to summerhill and particularly Connor Gillespie. Hopefully not too down."
It could potentially be the structure in Meath and competitiveness of the championship.

Crokes will get competitive matches from Boden, Ballymun, Judes, Na Fianna and even Raheny this year.

Nass are 3 in a row champions and have Sarsfields, Moorefield and Celebridge to compete with.

Lomans are another seasoned team, Westmeath is very open as seen with the Downs last year winning it and then not making the quarter finals this year. The strong group will benefit teams as you can't just peak for a final.

Mary's and Martins have dominated Louth the last couple of years and their championship is nearly as cut throat as Kerry. Newtown Blues were in the 2022 senior final and relegation this year.

Louth and Westmeath both have 12 teams at senior level and it's nearly time we follow suit.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 06/11/2023 22:19:30    2511836

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Replying To 2020Vision:  "Ratoath have the best squad in both football and hurling."
Great. Why are they not county champions in both so?

COUNTYTOCOUNTY (Meath) - Posts: 30 - 07/11/2023 11:28:38    2511881

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Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "It could potentially be the structure in Meath and competitiveness of the championship.

Crokes will get competitive matches from Boden, Ballymun, Judes, Na Fianna and even Raheny this year.

Nass are 3 in a row champions and have Sarsfields, Moorefield and Celebridge to compete with.

Lomans are another seasoned team, Westmeath is very open as seen with the Downs last year winning it and then not making the quarter finals this year. The strong group will benefit teams as you can't just peak for a final.

Mary's and Martins have dominated Louth the last couple of years and their championship is nearly as cut throat as Kerry. Newtown Blues were in the 2022 senior final and relegation this year.

Louth and Westmeath both have 12 teams at senior level and it's nearly time we follow suit."
Moorefield are brutal this year. That said I'd fancy Clane, Athy and probably Raheens or Johnstownbridge to have won or come close to winning this years Meath SFC. I don't want to drag it down because I have friends playing in the majority of Meath senior clubs who I know are good players, but the biggest eye opener to the gulf in class was shown to me two years ago when I watched my club, Kilcock, the Kildare intermediate champions beat a full strength Wolf Tones, Meath senior champions, in a friendly before their respective Leinster campaigns.

It quite possibly is a structural issue, but that said, I don't think ours is perfect, we've definitely too many senior teams.. and Naas are double champions with loads of dual players, which was the biggest excuse people have here for Ratoath not winning..

It may well also be a lack of desire to fire on all cylinders beyond your own championship.. the season is long enough, winning a county championship starts in December/January, and knowing Kilmacud are in Leinster might disincentivise pushing on beyond your own SFC

I don't know what's wrong but Leinster needs Meath, like it needs Kildare, or bloody anyone to dethrone the Dubs

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 07/11/2023 11:32:04    2511885

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Replying To hyperache:  "When you only kick 3 points from play, you don't deserve to win any game. Summerhill were also cut open multiple times too, had it not been for a couple of saves and some missed opportunities Nass would have been out of sight.

Summerhill could barley get over Tullamore, never mind going against the Dublin or Kildare champions.

Give over with Ratoath, what exactly have they done in Leinster when they had the chance?

Plus the Kildare championship is strong, to say it's a gimme that Nass go and win it is wrong. They just got over Cellbridge in the final, there's a couple of teams in there that could win it, and the top 4/5 teams would probably beat anything in the Meath championship."
Why is this always about Ratoath? they only kicked 1 point V Dunshaughlin in 30 minutes then none against tone in another 30 minutes of ball, Not champagne football by any stretch, worst 60 minutes of football in the History of football id say....

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 07/11/2023 13:36:21    2511930

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "Moorefield are brutal this year. That said I'd fancy Clane, Athy and probably Raheens or Johnstownbridge to have won or come close to winning this years Meath SFC. I don't want to drag it down because I have friends playing in the majority of Meath senior clubs who I know are good players, but the biggest eye opener to the gulf in class was shown to me two years ago when I watched my club, Kilcock, the Kildare intermediate champions beat a full strength Wolf Tones, Meath senior champions, in a friendly before their respective Leinster campaigns.

It quite possibly is a structural issue, but that said, I don't think ours is perfect, we've definitely too many senior teams.. and Naas are double champions with loads of dual players, which was the biggest excuse people have here for Ratoath not winning..

It may well also be a lack of desire to fire on all cylinders beyond your own championship.. the season is long enough, winning a county championship starts in December/January, and knowing Kilmacud are in Leinster might disincentivise pushing on beyond your own SFC

I don't know what's wrong but Leinster needs Meath, like it needs Kildare, or bloody anyone to dethrone the Dubs"
Meath club football isn't as bad as people are making out, Summerhill stuck with naas for 50 minutes only 2 in it after a terrible first ten and last ten. Summerhill we're missing the Meath full back and summerhills best player in ronan ryan, he would have done better on Kirwan and that first goal wouldn't have went in if he was there. Adam McDonnell, another lad who's now been called into Meath was only back from an injury with no training prior to the game and John Keane was out aswell. Naas are no doubt a better team than Summerhill but 10 points doesn't reflect the game the second goal ended it and shill needed goals so naas hit on counter and got easy points near the end. To say that mediocre teams like jtb and Raheens would win Meath is ridiculous, Summerhill and ratoath are both top teams and would be in the top 5 in Kildare. To even bring up kilcock in this is surely a joke. Celbridge and naas are the only 2 teams that would win the Meath championship and celbridge are bottlers so they probably wouldn't.

Meathboyos86 (Meath) - Posts: 29 - 07/11/2023 13:44:53    2511931

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Replying To Meathboyos86:  "Meath club football isn't as bad as people are making out, Summerhill stuck with naas for 50 minutes only 2 in it after a terrible first ten and last ten. Summerhill we're missing the Meath full back and summerhills best player in ronan ryan, he would have done better on Kirwan and that first goal wouldn't have went in if he was there. Adam McDonnell, another lad who's now been called into Meath was only back from an injury with no training prior to the game and John Keane was out aswell. Naas are no doubt a better team than Summerhill but 10 points doesn't reflect the game the second goal ended it and shill needed goals so naas hit on counter and got easy points near the end. To say that mediocre teams like jtb and Raheens would win Meath is ridiculous, Summerhill and ratoath are both top teams and would be in the top 5 in Kildare. To even bring up kilcock in this is surely a joke. Celbridge and naas are the only 2 teams that would win the Meath championship and celbridge are bottlers so they probably wouldn't."
Sarsfields, Clane, Athy, Celbridge and Naas were all winning the Meath SFC this year and I stand by that. The other two are capable of upsetting the bigger Meath teams but probably wouldn't win. No, Kilcock wouldn't get near a SFC, that was just an example. Meath has a number of strong clubs and ones developing young players nicely too, it's just about pushing on to the next level, as it is with both of our county teams here. I'm not trying to patronise Meath football but if neither of our counties can admit where we have to grow, watch that list of Dublin Leinster championships continue to extend.

I'm 100% sure that Dublin fans are saying the exact same thing about Kildare and laughing at the idea of our teams competing in their championships as I am here (although I'm not laughing)

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 07/11/2023 14:03:21    2511936

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Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "It could potentially be the structure in Meath and competitiveness of the championship.

Crokes will get competitive matches from Boden, Ballymun, Judes, Na Fianna and even Raheny this year.

Nass are 3 in a row champions and have Sarsfields, Moorefield and Celebridge to compete with.

Lomans are another seasoned team, Westmeath is very open as seen with the Downs last year winning it and then not making the quarter finals this year. The strong group will benefit teams as you can't just peak for a final.

Mary's and Martins have dominated Louth the last couple of years and their championship is nearly as cut throat as Kerry. Newtown Blues were in the 2022 senior final and relegation this year.

Louth and Westmeath both have 12 teams at senior level and it's nearly time we follow suit."
That is by far the most sensible post I've read on this debate for awhile. And the have to say it's hard to argue with all of those points.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 07/11/2023 14:06:08    2511937

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It kinda relates to what we see our clubs as doing. Are they simply to provide players for the county team or are they to exist as part of our community.
If county is all that matters, then you look after the elite and feck the rest. You go for an eight team SFC A, an eight team SFC B, eight in IFC A, eight IFC B and so on. Then you get regionals playing off against each other, top four regional teams enter the SFC while at the same time pausing all IFC, JFC and JFC B games for the two months it takes to run the SFC. We justify this as we are just looking after the elite and county is all that matters.
In Dublin they have a 16 team SFC A, then 16 in SFC B, 16 in IFC A and so on. It's why Dublin's IFC and JFC winners do nothing in Leinster, their IFC winner is the 33rd ranked team in the county.
When Meath were winning All-Irelands our clubs were doing very little in Leinster, but we were successful in county minor and U21 grades. That's a much better indicator of a county's health.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 478 - 07/11/2023 17:08:10    2511979

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Replying To 2020Vision:  "Ratoath have the best squad in both football and hurling."
Not so sure. Best of your hurlers this year played their football with Curraha

showforit (Meath) - Posts: 156 - 07/11/2023 20:49:04    2512012

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Why are Meath SHC winners not in Leinster Club SHC, just wondering.
I see Kildare, Westmeath & Carlow winners are all in the higher grade

glenny (Meath) - Posts: 1115 - 13/11/2023 14:15:25    2512717

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Replying To glenny:  "Why are Meath SHC winners not in Leinster Club SHC, just wondering.
I see Kildare, Westmeath & Carlow winners are all in the higher grade"
Due to not being able to compete with other Senior teams in Leinster. If they came up against O'Loughlin Gaels or Na Fianna they would be beaten out of sight.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 13/11/2023 15:28:25    2512751

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