HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

Meath Forum

Meath Vs Clare NFL Round 2

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To winatallcost: "What do you mean didn't have to start him. He contributed 10 pts last week. We were lucky to get through without him. So we were to risk losing a game without starting him for the sake of a college winter tournament? The point is that these players are being put under tremendous stress physically running these competitions in parallel but neither team management has any concern how the other team are doing. Its all on the player who doesn't want to let either team down. This is wrong but O'Rourke is hardly going to back down for his own agenda." Well he was on about player welfare. He could have left Walsh off. What is more important to him player welfare or the league position being linked to championship. Not sure you can complain about player welfare issues when you started a player you knew was most likely fatigued. By the way I agree with him about the timing of the college season being all wrong. Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 870 - 07/02/2023 10:47:27 2456951 Link
Great to get the win and 2 from 2 in the league.No doubt we were patchy but played some lovely football at times and got a few lovely scores.Its great to see us scoring goals again and goal hungry but our point scoring is a worry. We also seem to be conceding alot from frees.I think its was 9/10 v Cork and 7/8 v Clare.I think we are guilty though (as Supporters)of saying its only Clare and we should be winning easily against a team who gave us a run around in the championship last year and should've beaten us by more.There is no easy game in this division and any team could beat anyone on the day.So while no doubt we have room for improvement,we have to remember it's fairly young team getting to know and play with each other while also playing under a new managementteam.Hopefully with the 2 week break we get the injured players back as need to keep the momentum going. . Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 258 - 07/02/2023 11:37:25 2456971 Link
Replying To Blackspot09: "A lot of talk on here about the kick out strategy or lack of one and a lot of people suprised the new management haven't implemented a kick out strategy. Is it possible that they have tried to implement a kick out strategy and simply haven't been able to because the players just aren't capable of executing it? And all the talk of no kick out strategy from previous management was just that the players couldn't get it done?? I doubt any management at Division 2 inter county level have not tried to implement a kick out strategy." Fair point. I guess a lot of stick the previous management got for kick out strategies has been shown that it's not that either Andy and co and Colm and co aren't implementing one. It's that it's just not working out so far. But it's costing us. And I believe if we get it somewhat sorted that we retain 60% of our own kick outs and win 40% of opposition then I believe we will get promoted. It's been a serious issue in fairness since O'Dowd time and probably even banty. But even if we apply a sticking plaster for this year it will serve us well royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 07/02/2023 12:52:40 2457007 Link
Jones and McGowan are probably the two best all round midfielders at senior club level. Flanagan, Rooney and Callagahan are all good fielders but the first two aren't athletic enough for intercounty and Callaghan is mid 30s. Menton is a great running midfielder and probably stronger than Jones and McGowan but not the best ball winner. Conlon and Harnan both play midfield for their clubs at times but are better half backs. Shane Crosby and Keoghan were the stand out midfielders in the regional championship. Donal is a better center back while Crosby is around the panel at the minute. Could someone like Murtagh from Nobber play intercounty, he's big, powerful and athletic but might lack the football. When I sit down and think about it, there's no Brian Meade, Nigel Crawford, Conor Gillespie, Shane O Rourke or Mark Ward type of midfielder in Meath at the minute. The best two are in Australia UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 07/02/2023 13:44:59 2457039 Link
Replying To royaldunne: "Fair point. I guess a lot of stick the previous management got for kick out strategies has been shown that it's not that either Andy and co and Colm and co aren't implementing one. It's that it's just not working out so far. But it's costing us. And I believe if we get it somewhat sorted that we retain 60% of our own kick outs and win 40% of opposition then I believe we will get promoted. It's been a serious issue in fairness since O'Dowd time and probably even banty. But even if we apply a sticking plaster for this year it will serve us well" They are doing what every other county is doing which is line up down the middle and then split to the wings and trying to screen/block a few lads while making the run.(basic basketball tactics as clare did the same but had furthest man from the ball make the run though the middle for the short pass once everyone cleared out). The issue is once we make the runs out and the ball doesn't come, the lads don't know what to do after that, they just stand and harry is a bit too indecisive when his original 1st/2nd/3rd options are not on the table. The lads have to keep moving and trying to find space. I think it will get better, its just sunday really threw up a lot of questions and the lads struggled. Somthing to work on. Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 631 - 07/02/2023 14:31:50 2457065 Link
McGowan doesn't play mid field for his club but rather in the half forward line, it's his brother who plays in the middle. Jones is a good footballer but is unable to field a high ball. He is always out of position and gets caught behind his man then goes up for the ball while off balance with one hand a lot of the time. Do we have a better option at the moment I don't think so. Therefore we need to find a way to win our own kickouts, either going short or bypassing midfield easier said than done. The Clare no8 was probably the best player on the field yesterday. The worrying thing for me was the short passing and no direct play. Walsh was on the field for 15 minutes and only touched the ball once. They never kicked one ball into him but tried to walk it in. It must be a nightmare to be a corner forward with that style of play. We need to stay the course now and give everyone a chance to put a gameplay together. latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 520 - 07/02/2023 18:32:13 2457130 Link
Replying To Irish_downunder: "They are doing what every other county is doing which is line up down the middle and then split to the wings and trying to screen/block a few lads while making the run.(basic basketball tactics as clare did the same but had furthest man from the ball make the run though the middle for the short pass once everyone cleared out). The issue is once we make the runs out and the ball doesn't come, the lads don't know what to do after that, they just stand and harry is a bit too indecisive when his original 1st/2nd/3rd options are not on the table. The lads have to keep moving and trying to find space. I think it will get better, its just sunday really threw up a lot of questions and the lads struggled. Somthing to work on." I take ur point but He was often ready to kick early but no one was looking royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 07/02/2023 19:36:37 2457143 Link
Replying To latouche25: "McGowan doesn't play mid field for his club but rather in the half forward line, it's his brother who plays in the middle. Jones is a good footballer but is unable to field a high ball. He is always out of position and gets caught behind his man then goes up for the ball while off balance with one hand a lot of the time. Do we have a better option at the moment I don't think so. Therefore we need to find a way to win our own kickouts, either going short or bypassing midfield easier said than done. The Clare no8 was probably the best player on the field yesterday. The worrying thing for me was the short passing and no direct play. Walsh was on the field for 15 minutes and only touched the ball once. They never kicked one ball into him but tried to walk it in. It must be a nightmare to be a corner forward with that style of play. We need to stay the course now and give everyone a chance to put a gameplay together." So have to totally disagree with this. Anytime we try kicking ball in it's not working out for majority of time. I was delighted to see a return to the running possession game on Sunday like previous week when we did it in second half it paid dividends. We kick the ball v Derry and we will be destroyed. Surely you know this? We don't have the ball winners. Mix it up. If the kick is on go for it if not retain possession. To kick away ball needlessly for some ideological reason is beyond belief. I'm glad Colm (probably encouraged by his assistant coach) has decided not to go down this road rigidly. There's room for both. But the golden rule is opposing teams can't score if they don't have the ball. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/02/2023 10:38:39 2457196 Link
Replying To latouche25: "McGowan doesn't play mid field for his club but rather in the half forward line, it's his brother who plays in the middle. Jones is a good footballer but is unable to field a high ball. He is always out of position and gets caught behind his man then goes up for the ball while off balance with one hand a lot of the time. Do we have a better option at the moment I don't think so. Therefore we need to find a way to win our own kickouts, either going short or bypassing midfield easier said than done. The Clare no8 was probably the best player on the field yesterday. The worrying thing for me was the short passing and no direct play. Walsh was on the field for 15 minutes and only touched the ball once. They never kicked one ball into him but tried to walk it in. It must be a nightmare to be a corner forward with that style of play. We need to stay the course now and give everyone a chance to put a gameplay together." It is probably more accurate to say that Daithi McGowan doesn't start at midfield always. Sometimes Jack Flynn starts alongside Ben McGowan but sometimes Jack and Daithi switch. But they often end up in mid field at different points of the game. Ben McGowan is underrated - he does a lot of the grunt work for Ratoath which frees up some of the others to do the more noticeable things! Jack Flynn seems to have recovered from his injury, so I would expect to see him back in the squad very soon and wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the team and at midfield! Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 481 - 08/02/2023 14:35:15 2457276 Link
Replying To latouche25: "McGowan doesn't play mid field for his club but rather in the half forward line, it's his brother who plays in the middle. Jones is a good footballer but is unable to field a high ball. He is always out of position and gets caught behind his man then goes up for the ball while off balance with one hand a lot of the time. Do we have a better option at the moment I don't think so. Therefore we need to find a way to win our own kickouts, either going short or bypassing midfield easier said than done. The Clare no8 was probably the best player on the field yesterday. The worrying thing for me was the short passing and no direct play. Walsh was on the field for 15 minutes and only touched the ball once. They never kicked one ball into him but tried to walk it in. It must be a nightmare to be a corner forward with that style of play. We need to stay the course now and give everyone a chance to put a gameplay together." Were you at the game? Where exactly were they supposed to kick the ball to? Clare had 15 players parked behind the ball in the spaces Meath had to kick into against Cork. It was also a difficult wind to kick into. Meath were slow at getting the ball from defence to attack, which allowed Clare to set up. The couple of high balls Meath did send in during the first half did work however. Where Meath need to advance their kicking game is by being able to kick through the lines, rather than run the ball, which allows defensive teams like Clare time to set up. To be able to kick through the lines, Meath need ball winning players around the middle eight. Kerry are the best team in the country at kicking through the lines, even better than Dublin, which they showed against Monaghan at the weekend. BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 935 - 08/02/2023 15:32:33 2457295 Link
Being able to put a long ball in to the full forward line is starting to pay dividends, a lot of teams have gone away from traditional corner and full backs so someone in the full back line might be able to get up 80/90 meters and kick a score but could be vulnerable at the other end if isolated. On your point of kicking through the lines, you need a few things, good kick passers, players who can create space or win their own ball and good defenders for when a kick pass goes wrong and it is coming back in. If you look at Kerry, they always had the first 2 but when the pass didn't come off they didn't have the backs at times over the last 5 years to deal with it. I think we are getting there in terms of all 3, kick passing is improving along with our backs but we do need to get better ball winners around the park UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 08/02/2023 15:56:54 2457301 Link
Replying To royaldunne: "I take ur point but He was often ready to kick early but no one was looking" Agree, frustrating to see keeper racing to make quick kick but only to be faced with lads strolling out from goal with backs to the ball. bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 08/02/2023 17:09:47 2457333 Link
Replying To royaldunne: "So have to totally disagree with this. Anytime we try kicking ball in it's not working out for majority of time. I was delighted to see a return to the running possession game on Sunday like previous week when we did it in second half it paid dividends. We kick the ball v Derry and we will be destroyed. Surely you know this? We don't have the ball winners. Mix it up. If the kick is on go for it if not retain possession. To kick away ball needlessly for some ideological reason is beyond belief. I'm glad Colm (probably encouraged by his assistant coach) has decided not to go down this road rigidly. There's room for both. But the golden rule is opposing teams can't score if they don't have the ball." Disagree, despite how bad we played i think we won the game through well executed foot passes in the first half. If we played full on running game we would have lost the game on Sunday. bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1792 - 08/02/2023 17:13:16 2457335 Link
Replying To BigJoe14: "Were you at the game? Where exactly were they supposed to kick the ball to? Clare had 15 players parked behind the ball in the spaces Meath had to kick into against Cork. It was also a difficult wind to kick into. Meath were slow at getting the ball from defence to attack, which allowed Clare to set up. The couple of high balls Meath did send in during the first half did work however. Where Meath need to advance their kicking game is by being able to kick through the lines, rather than run the ball, which allows defensive teams like Clare time to set up. To be able to kick through the lines, Meath need ball winning players around the middle eight. Kerry are the best team in the country at kicking through the lines, even better than Dublin, which they showed against Monaghan at the weekend." You ask a question first yes I was at the game not that it makes any difference to the conversation. Secondly you asked where were they going to kick it to. You then went on to answer your own question. They were to slow moving the ball from half back to half forward 10 12 14 hand passes for no reason other than move the ball. Nobody looked up to give a long ball in. There was plenty of opportunity to deliver the long ball, the wind was not that bad in the first half and we had it in the second. Maybe it comes down to a lack of responsibility. You talk about the middle 8 and kicking through the lines. These are the buzz words these days but what do they mean do you know, the middle 8 is most of the field and kicking between the lines literally means nothing. Any half back is capable of hitting the 20m line with a foot pass. It's the speed of movement and transition from defence to attack that creates space for the full forward line. On Sunday we were painfully slow in that transition. latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 520 - 08/02/2023 20:24:53 2457361 Link
Replying To royaldunne: "So have to totally disagree with this. Anytime we try kicking ball in it's not working out for majority of time. I was delighted to see a return to the running possession game on Sunday like previous week when we did it in second half it paid dividends. We kick the ball v Derry and we will be destroyed. Surely you know this? We don't have the ball winners. Mix it up. If the kick is on go for it if not retain possession. To kick away ball needlessly for some ideological reason is beyond belief. I'm glad Colm (probably encouraged by his assistant coach) has decided not to go down this road rigidly. There's room for both. But the golden rule is opposing teams can't score if they don't have the ball." True if we kick the ball all the time against Derry we won't win. But also if we run the ball all the time we'll completely play into their hands. Against Clare we still got 1-1 early off long direct ball in. In the second half without Walsh and Costello a lot of the time the ball went in only to come back out. And then when the subs came on and we didn't win our kickouts we lost shape completely and the kick stopped being an option. Derry retreat quickly. But they do commit loads of numbers to attack and press hard on kickouts. I think we have to leave 2/3 forwards up at all times and if we get a turnover kickpass through the lines before Derry get their bodies back. Same if we can win any kickouts. Head up straight away and kick it in before they get back. It might not work that often. But even 1-3 coming off it could win us what will probably be a low scoring game. I hope we have Walsh and Costello back. We missed their ability to take their man on after winning the ball LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1465 - 09/02/2023 08:58:50 2457379 Link
Replying To bert09: "Disagree, despite how bad we played i think we won the game through well executed foot passes in the first half. If we played full on running game we would have lost the game on Sunday." Indeed. It's a case of mixing the play. , it's about what's on. But Derry are masters at blanket defense. So patience will be what's needed. Could be a very low scoring game. And goals will be crucial. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 10/02/2023 07:07:26 2457564 Link
Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "True if we kick the ball all the time against Derry we won't win. But also if we run the ball all the time we'll completely play into their hands. Against Clare we still got 1-1 early off long direct ball in. In the second half without Walsh and Costello a lot of the time the ball went in only to come back out. And then when the subs came on and we didn't win our kickouts we lost shape completely and the kick stopped being an option. Derry retreat quickly. But they do commit loads of numbers to attack and press hard on kickouts. I think we have to leave 2/3 forwards up at all times and if we get a turnover kickpass through the lines before Derry get their bodies back. Same if we can win any kickouts. Head up straight away and kick it in before they get back. It might not work that often. But even 1-3 coming off it could win us what will probably be a low scoring game. I hope we have Walsh and Costello back. We missed their ability to take their man on after winning the ball" Yeah if it's on go for it. I do think we have to be patient though. In turn overs let it in to hopefully walsh and Costello that break the lines. We've played against Gallagher set ups many times . It's going to be dogged but if we get a good crowd to Derry and a goal or two we can win it royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 10/02/2023 07:11:18 2457565 Link
Replying To royaldunne: "Yeah if it's on go for it. I do think we have to be patient though. In turn overs let it in to hopefully walsh and Costello that break the lines. We've played against Gallagher set ups many times . It's going to be dogged but if we get a good crowd to Derry and a goal or two we can win it" Not sure on Walsh but Costello definitely won't make it and could possibly miss a few games from what I am hearing. Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 870 - 10/02/2023 10:00:40 2457589 Link
Replying To Blackspot09: "Not sure on Walsh but Costello definitely won't make it and could possibly miss a few games from what I am hearing." That's a disaster. It really is a disgrace that these players are expected to play in both the sigerson cup and intercounty league games within the same week. The full blame lays at the GAA. The sigerson cup should either be before Christmas or else start it in January and push the start of the league out by 3 or 4 weeks. Colm O'Rourke has to play these players as at the end of the day, they are his best forwards and your championship season hinges on where you finish in the league. Also if the DCU manager loses a game, he wont be getting public criticism, whereas if Colm O'Rourke loses a few games it heeps big pressure on him. Not as easy to say Colm O'Rourke should just not use the lads while the sigerson is on. BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 935 - 10/02/2023 11:32:43 2457617 Link
Replying To Blackspot09: "Not sure on Walsh but Costello definitely won't make it and could possibly miss a few games from what I am hearing." Damn. That's a loss royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 10/02/2023 12:15:28 2457626 Link