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Also on the Derry thing Meath had them beat easily in a dead rubber for us a must win for them not too long ago only for a calamity gk error.
Also I would actually love to see the posts on here if Meath played basketball like Derry and Donegal did yesterday. Now that would be funny.
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RD we lost, that's all that counts. If me granny had...... ;) And we didn't have them easily beat, it was nip and tuck the whole way, when the game was there to be won, Derry went and won it. And that was a game in Navan, not Owenbeg or Celtic Park
I get your points about style of play and yes some would complain and i get that, i'd likely be one of them but again you can't argue with the results that Derry have consistently produced this year
As I said our last victory over a division one side was 12 years ago under Eamonn O'Brien. 12 years and counting
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 31/05/2022 17:18:50
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Replying To brian: "In fairness Andy is loved too by vast majority of the players. So what can we do ?
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RD I'm sorry but i just don't buy this and think again you're trying to spin things. The players loved MOD until he was no longer there. The players love Andy until he's no longer there. I know you'll say you know certain players who didn't love MOD but I'll counter that and say there's plenty that don't love Andy and once the campaign is over he's out of road the truth will then come out about whether or not the players "loved" him or not.
I'm sure there's plenty of players that do "love" him, but sure why wouldn't they when there's zero accountantability, zero want to change and zero pressure put on the players to improve and be any better, fitter, stronger, faster, smarter than they were previously. Collect your gear bags there lads and nothing to see here ;) There was a collective throwing in of the towel v Dublin and I'll bet 16-17 of the same team of players used will be out again on Saturday. Why would things change when they haven't for the last 3 seasons.
What we can do is bring in a more professional set up at all levels of admin and team management. Set clearly defined goals and markers which are reviewed in a timely fashion after the season has ended. Adjust and or act upon failure to meet objectives. Provide more support where needed by bringing in the best in class staff who can help improve standards. Don't take 5 months to make a decision and put it to a vote with no alternative in place to consider. Develop and improve the standard of the senior team which can be clearly measured and demonstrated on the pitch.
Andy has clearly failed to achieve his goals for 2021 and 2022 and has not developed this team in that time frame at all. No player now is any better than they were in 2020 with many having regressed alarmingly, and that's a failure of management to improve standards, to provide better coaching and to hold players accountable. I know some will say we don't have the players and that's a fair point but when you see no player who's improved in 2 years then questions need to be asked of management and those who are charged with putting them in the positions they are.
Again I'll reference Derry, 2 promotions in 3-4 years, Ulster champions beating 3 division one teams along the way to do it in the last 4-6 weeks. Regardless of how they play and how much you might dislike it, you can't argue with success. Our last victory over a division one side was 12 years ago under Eamonn O'Brien. 12 years and counting
Compare ourselves to Derry, they've shown steady progress, a style that works for them, who work like absolute odgs from 1-15, have competent management, a manager who's tactically clued in and minimises risk by playing a basic and fundamental game which all his players buy into. Counter that with a disjointed team, who've shown rapid decline who are lazy and don't work for each other and a manager who's not tactically aware and fails to fix problems which are evident for several years and allows teams to target and win by exploiting all of those weaknesses. Gallagher enables his players and encourages and cajoles and gets the best out of his players. Does Andy do any of that.
We need a manager to come in, who can do all what a Rory Gallagher, a Jim Gavin, a Jim McGuinness can do and put some structure, discipline and a style of play around the team. Do you think any of those lads gave a tuppence for being loved by their players, they're all ruthless when it's need, you don't perform you're out.
We still have lads six years into this managers term, who were never inter county standard still starting for this manager. And they're almost undroppable. That's not good enough and something needs to be done about it.
"In fairness Andy is loved too by vast majority of the players. So what can we do ?"
The short answer RD is move on from Andy, because even if he is loved he's not good enough." Agreed 100%. !!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 31/05/2022 18:54:13
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Replying To brian: "In fairness Andy is loved too by vast majority of the players. So what can we do ?
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RD I'm sorry but i just don't buy this and think again you're trying to spin things. The players loved MOD until he was no longer there. The players love Andy until he's no longer there. I know you'll say you know certain players who didn't love MOD but I'll counter that and say there's plenty that don't love Andy and once the campaign is over he's out of road the truth will then come out about whether or not the players "loved" him or not.
I'm sure there's plenty of players that do "love" him, but sure why wouldn't they when there's zero accountantability, zero want to change and zero pressure put on the players to improve and be any better, fitter, stronger, faster, smarter than they were previously. Collect your gear bags there lads and nothing to see here ;) There was a collective throwing in of the towel v Dublin and I'll bet 16-17 of the same team of players used will be out again on Saturday. Why would things change when they haven't for the last 3 seasons.
What we can do is bring in a more professional set up at all levels of admin and team management. Set clearly defined goals and markers which are reviewed in a timely fashion after the season has ended. Adjust and or act upon failure to meet objectives. Provide more support where needed by bringing in the best in class staff who can help improve standards. Don't take 5 months to make a decision and put it to a vote with no alternative in place to consider. Develop and improve the standard of the senior team which can be clearly measured and demonstrated on the pitch.
Andy has clearly failed to achieve his goals for 2021 and 2022 and has not developed this team in that time frame at all. No player now is any better than they were in 2020 with many having regressed alarmingly, and that's a failure of management to improve standards, to provide better coaching and to hold players accountable. I know some will say we don't have the players and that's a fair point but when you see no player who's improved in 2 years then questions need to be asked of management and those who are charged with putting them in the positions they are.
Again I'll reference Derry, 2 promotions in 3-4 years, Ulster champions beating 3 division one teams along the way to do it in the last 4-6 weeks. Regardless of how they play and how much you might dislike it, you can't argue with success. Our last victory over a division one side was 12 years ago under Eamonn O'Brien. 12 years and counting
Compare ourselves to Derry, they've shown steady progress, a style that works for them, who work like absolute odgs from 1-15, have competent management, a manager who's tactically clued in and minimises risk by playing a basic and fundamental game which all his players buy into. Counter that with a disjointed team, who've shown rapid decline who are lazy and don't work for each other and a manager who's not tactically aware and fails to fix problems which are evident for several years and allows teams to target and win by exploiting all of those weaknesses. Gallagher enables his players and encourages and cajoles and gets the best out of his players. Does Andy do any of that.
We need a manager to come in, who can do all what a Rory Gallagher, a Jim Gavin, a Jim McGuinness can do and put some structure, discipline and a style of play around the team. Do you think any of those lads gave a tuppence for being loved by their players, they're all ruthless when it's need, you don't perform you're out.
We still have lads six years into this managers term, who were never inter county standard still starting for this manager. And they're almost undroppable. That's not good enough and something needs to be done about it.
"In fairness Andy is loved too by vast majority of the players. So what can we do ?"
The short answer RD is move on from Andy, because even if he is loved he's not good enough." We are moving on from Andy. He's leaving but the fact is Andy is adored by the vast majority of players. Hence the letter etc . So I'm sorry Brian you wrong on this one just like you were on Jordan Morris.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/05/2022 19:27:26
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We are moving on from Andy. He's leaving but the fact is Andy is adored by the vast majority of players. Hence the letter etc . So I'm sorry Brian you wrong on this one just like you were on Jordan Morris.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 18119 - 31/05/2022 19:27:26
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RD i held my hands up and admitted i was wrong on Jordan, I have the capacity and willingness to do that. I think you said we can all make mistakes in response to my admission. Trying to point score and you failed badly there. I explained why i thought he was sent off and when he was cleared and the reason i thought he was sent off was shown to have happened after the red I admitted straight away i was in the wrong.
The fact is you haven't the first clue whether Andy is loved/ adored or not by the vast majority of the players. They're 30+ individuals with their own opinions on Andy, and unless you have access to all of them and their thoughts you've no idea if they "love" or "adore" Andy. You have an opinion which you're well entitled to have, stating your opinion as a fact is just wrong, and i think once Andy is gone in the same way as happened with MOD, several things will come out.
I'd enjoy sitting down with Menton and Keoghan and discussing their opinions on both Andy and MOD. Two players who are still the standard bearers on the team and deserve to have played with a better supporting cast around them.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 10:14:42
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The players in the Dublin game did not look like they were playing Andy, themselves or anyone else for that matter.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 01/06/2022 11:57:47
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Replying To brian: "We are moving on from Andy. He's leaving but the fact is Andy is adored by the vast majority of players. Hence the letter etc . So I'm sorry Brian you wrong on this one just like you were on Jordan Morris.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 18119 - 31/05/2022 19:27:26
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RD i held my hands up and admitted i was wrong on Jordan, I have the capacity and willingness to do that. I think you said we can all make mistakes in response to my admission. Trying to point score and you failed badly there. I explained why i thought he was sent off and when he was cleared and the reason i thought he was sent off was shown to have happened after the red I admitted straight away i was in the wrong.
The fact is you haven't the first clue whether Andy is loved/ adored or not by the vast majority of the players. They're 30+ individuals with their own opinions on Andy, and unless you have access to all of them and their thoughts you've no idea if they "love" or "adore" Andy. You have an opinion which you're well entitled to have, stating your opinion as a fact is just wrong, and i think once Andy is gone in the same way as happened with MOD, several things will come out.
I'd enjoy sitting down with Menton and Keoghan and discussing their opinions on both Andy and MOD. Two players who are still the standard bearers on the team and deserve to have played with a better supporting cast around them." That Might have sounded harsh that was not my intention, I do apologize if that's how it sounded. Look I know a few people involved, and while one of them (back room) doesn't see eye to eye with Andy on most things.he actually said the players adore him, and for the life of this individual he can't understand it.
Again I apologize for bringing in Morris comment.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 01/06/2022 13:39:38
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Replying To stillaroyal: "The players in the Dublin game did not look like they were playing Andy, themselves or anyone else for that matter." Shush now, we're not supposed to say that. Andy is "loved and adored" by the players, that's a "fact" don't you know.
Given the ability of the manager to constantly throw the players under the bus this season, you'd have to ask why??
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 14:38:59
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Replying To royaldunne: "That Might have sounded harsh that was not my intention, I do apologize if that's how it sounded. Look I know a few people involved, and while one of them (back room) doesn't see eye to eye with Andy on most things.he actually said the players adore him, and for the life of this individual he can't understand it.
Again I apologize for bringing in Morris comment." Looked RD no harm, we won't fall out over things ;) Sure who knows we might even grab an oul pint down in Ennis on Saturday
As you say i don't doubt several players do like him, and i think we're in agreement that Andy is gone after the season, so no use in us falling out and flogging a dead horse any further on it.
I would hope we'll see more progress with the next manager, but going back to my prior post that's going to take a professional set up at all levels, admin and management. Its's going to take clearly defined plans and markers which we can track, development of players to be better than they were in each year, resolving the long standing issues which have plagued Andy's reign (and i'm not saying they're all his fault) and creating a new identity for Meath football, what it is and can be. It won't be built in a day a year or even 5 years, and it might be the ,manager after the next one who benefits, but we've got to start pulling in the same direction.
I know several people are in favour of Malachy O'Rourke, and i think the man guarantee's improvement, he has everywhere he's been, so if you could get him on board (and hopefully the county bard are already working on the new manager) and maybe have O'Bric or McCarthy or Brennan involved with him over the time and hopefully by the time Malachy departs, one or two of them guys are ready to take over.
Might've been yourself in recent weeks said that we need to do a lot of mental work with these players and help them understand what it is to be a Meath player, what Meath players of yesteryear were like and how they were regarded all over the country. Maybe then they might understand what oul fellas like ourselves keep banging on about saying things like "we are Meath" ;) ;)
Anyways on to Ennis on Saturday and hopefully we see a kick from these boys.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 15:23:47
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Lads, we are slipping away from the purpose of this thread & back to the "After Andy" conversation, for which there's a thread.
We've a senior Championship game in 3 days, normally that's all people would be looking towards & thinking/talking about. The management situation will get copious amounts of airtime when the curtain falls on 2022 for us.
On the game itself:
Many changes expected?
Costello back out the field where he belongs?
Scully start ahead of Ryan or JMcE?
Maybe Muldoon get a run ahead of Clarke?
Harnan back in at 6 & DK back to the wing with hickey the other side?
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 01/06/2022 15:29:55
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Replying To royaldunne: "That Might have sounded harsh that was not my intention, I do apologize if that's how it sounded. Look I know a few people involved, and while one of them (back room) doesn't see eye to eye with Andy on most things.he actually said the players adore him, and for the life of this individual he can't understand it.
Again I apologize for bringing in Morris comment."
Looked RD no harm, we won't fall out over things ;) Sure who knows we might even grab an oul pint down in Ennis on Saturday
Now you boys are starting to talk a bit of sense...
On the subject of dirty pints.. Any recomendations or any Meath fans have plans for anywhere before the game with a bit of athmosphere? There seems to be a few secent spots not too far from Cusack park, and Saturdays weather lends itself very Kindly to a beer Garden for a couple before the game...
Are the NMC boys taking up residency anywhere pre match? Or occupying the terrace behind the goals for the game? They certainly held their own in the corner of the hill v Dublin...
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 01/06/2022 15:38:09
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Replying To Jinxie: "Lads, we are slipping away from the purpose of this thread & back to the "After Andy" conversation, for which there's a thread.
We've a senior Championship game in 3 days, normally that's all people would be looking towards & thinking/talking about. The management situation will get copious amounts of airtime when the curtain falls on 2022 for us.
On the game itself:
Many changes expected?
Costello back out the field where he belongs?
Scully start ahead of Ryan or JMcE?
Maybe Muldoon get a run ahead of Clarke?
Harnan back in at 6 & DK back to the wing with hickey the other side?" You're right Jinxie, lets talk about Clare
Change's i'd consider
Muldoon for either corner Back, both were roasted. We badly need corner backs and I'm not even sure if Muldoon is suitable for that
Ryan and McEntee both out for me. If Harnan is fit I'd start him at 6, think RD mentioned Andy isn't a fan of his pace for 6 but he's the best we have for the position. Had hopes for Ryan but not doing much to prove he needs to be in the 15. Scully if fit also needs to come in at whb/whf.
Jones is lucky Flynn is suspended as he would be starting
Personally were weakest in the forwards and if we started 6 new lads this weekend I wouldn't be averse to it.
I think he'll go
Hogan
Clarke-McGill-Harkin
Scully-Keoghan-Hickey
Menton-Jones
O'Connor-O'Reilly-Cillian
Morris-Costello-Joey
I'd go
Hogan
Muldoon-McGill-Ryan
Hickey-Harnan/ G McGowan-Keoghan
Menton-Jones
Scully-Walsh-Costello
Cillian-O'Connor-A Lynch
I know lots will decry Morris not being there but for me needs to learn a lesson and understand the discipline required for a Meath jersey. That he needs to be a lot smarter on the ball and off it too. Too many pot shots, sky balls and wastes of possession
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 16:06:48
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Replying To Jinxie: "Replying To royaldunne: "That Might have sounded harsh that was not my intention, I do apologize if that's how it sounded. Look I know a few people involved, and while one of them (back room) doesn't see eye to eye with Andy on most things.he actually said the players adore him, and for the life of this individual he can't understand it.
Again I apologize for bringing in Morris comment."
Looked RD no harm, we won't fall out over things ;) Sure who knows we might even grab an oul pint down in Ennis on Saturday
Now you boys are starting to talk a bit of sense...
On the subject of dirty pints.. Any recomendations or any Meath fans have plans for anywhere before the game with a bit of athmosphere? There seems to be a few secent spots not too far from Cusack park, and Saturdays weather lends itself very Kindly to a beer Garden for a couple before the game...
Are the NMC boys taking up residency anywhere pre match? Or occupying the terrace behind the goals for the game? They certainly held their own in the corner of the hill v Dublin..." Yeah any recommendation is right, I'm driving but I'll have a lad with me who'll have few beers, and sure Heineken 0 will do me ;)
Jinxie, who are the NMC boys??? Are we talking North Meath contingent... or am i being totally stupid ;)
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 16:10:10
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Replying To brian: " Replying To Jinxie: "Replying To royaldunne: "That Might have sounded harsh that was not my intention, I do apologize if that's how it sounded. Look I know a few people involved, and while one of them (back room) doesn't see eye to eye with Andy on most things.he actually said the players adore him, and for the life of this individual he can't understand it.
Again I apologize for bringing in Morris comment."
Looked RD no harm, we won't fall out over things ;) Sure who knows we might even grab an oul pint down in Ennis on Saturday
Now you boys are starting to talk a bit of sense...
On the subject of dirty pints.. Any recomendations or any Meath fans have plans for anywhere before the game with a bit of athmosphere? There seems to be a few secent spots not too far from Cusack park, and Saturdays weather lends itself very Kindly to a beer Garden for a couple before the game...
Are the NMC boys taking up residency anywhere pre match? Or occupying the terrace behind the goals for the game? They certainly held their own in the corner of the hill v Dublin..." Yeah any recommendation is right, I'm driving but I'll have a lad with me who'll have few beers, and sure Heineken 0 will do me ;) Jinxie, who are the NMC boys??? Are we talking North Meath contingent... or am i being totally stupid ;)"
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 01/06/2022 17:01:38
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Ah you'd hear them mentioned a bit on the we are Meath podcast. North Meath Choir Boys. Bunch of lads from Brigids, Moylagh Oldcastle and that area who are fond of an away trip following the Royals. Be good to see a bit of colour and athmosphere at the game Saturday evening. Its what the qualifiers are about. Great athmosphere in some of these towns for Away matches & we generally have a good following as a county regardless of how the team are going.
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6229 - 01/06/2022 17:01:38
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Agh fair enough Jinxie, wasn't too sure, any noise and atmosphere is always great and welcome. I'm a bit ould to be at it meself, but fair play to the lads that do. Think there's plenty of lads from the Dublin border clubs that are always in fine voice too and fair play to them lads as well.
I've never been to Ennis myself, so looking forward to this, was in the town one night passing through but that's my only experience of it.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 01/06/2022 17:08:57
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Ciarans bar is good gaa pub.just down from pitch.beside queens hotel.
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 01/06/2022 17:29:30
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Replying To Jinxie: "Lads, we are slipping away from the purpose of this thread & back to the "After Andy" conversation, for which there's a thread.
We've a senior Championship game in 3 days, normally that's all people would be looking towards & thinking/talking about. The management situation will get copious amounts of airtime when the curtain falls on 2022 for us.
On the game itself:
Many changes expected?
Costello back out the field where he belongs?
Scully start ahead of Ryan or JMcE?
Maybe Muldoon get a run ahead of Clarke?
Harnan back in at 6 & DK back to the wing with hickey the other side?" That's a fair assessment
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 01/06/2022 20:38:06
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Replying To royaldunne: "That's a fair assessment" I think that's about right jinxie
Hogan
Muldoon
McGill
Harkin
Keogan
Harnan
Hickey
Menton
Jones
Costello
O Reilly
Scully
Morris
O Sullivan
Wallace/JmE/walsh
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 02/06/2022 09:48:40
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "I think that's about right jinxie
Hogan
Muldoon
McGill
Harkin
Keogan
Harnan
Hickey
Menton
Jones
Costello
O Reilly
Scully
Morris
O Sullivan
Wallace/JmE/walsh" Yeah that looks like the most logical 15 for me, with Wallace getting the pick of the 3 you put at 15 as I think he tried hard against Dublin and has been offering more than usual this year. I also think if JMcE started there its just another defender in the forwards, and there would already be a few of them there, plus CO'S will be moving further out from the FF line also.
Then again, thats exactly what happened down there in the league game with just Walsh & Morris left inside & everyone else setting up much deeper. It was almost like an ulster clash & I think it benefitted Clare much more than it did us.
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 02/06/2022 11:17:47
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Replying To brian: "Ah you'd hear them mentioned a bit on the we are Meath podcast. North Meath Choir Boys. Bunch of lads from Brigids, Moylagh Oldcastle and that area who are fond of an away trip following the Royals. Be good to see a bit of colour and athmosphere at the game Saturday evening. Its what the qualifiers are about. Great athmosphere in some of these towns for Away matches & we generally have a good following as a county regardless of how the team are going.
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6229 - 01/06/2022 17:01:38
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Agh fair enough Jinxie, wasn't too sure, any noise and atmosphere is always great and welcome. I'm a bit ould to be at it meself, but fair play to the lads that do. Think there's plenty of lads from the Dublin border clubs that are always in fine voice too and fair play to them lads as well.
I've never been to Ennis myself, so looking forward to this, was in the town one night passing through but that's my only experience of it." Maybe it's cause I'm a little bigger than I was a few years ago. But them seats are small in Ennis. This must be my 4th or 5th time there over the past 6/7 years. Looks like good weather, but I'll be honest 6 throw in is too late when driving back with kids.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 03/06/2022 07:22:36
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The seats in Ennis are something else.... There in the spring and if you've to move past people who are sitting its near impossible.
Giving great weather tho so I think the terrace will do the job fine on Saturday.
6pm isn't ideal for a spin home but I do think in general its a great time for a game & gets better crowds. The GAA should be doing more 6/7pm Saturday evening games. They have great crowds and do wonders for the local bussiness in the town in question.
Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 03/06/2022 09:32:42
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