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Not talking for RD but have a few issues with your post.
Simonstown guys? Which guys? Niall Kane and B Conlon part of the panel this year. Tobin retired. Shane Gallagher is away this year I believe but he has been extremely unfortunate with injury during his career. Is P McKeever one of them? Some lads have to bide their time, can't just expect to walk on to starting team.
Fair enough re Donal Lenihan, should have got more playing time. Harry Rooney has said he doesn't want to play inter-county football whoever is the manager it doesn't matter.
Ruairi O'Coilean? Has he also fell out with NOM management because he has barely played any football for them. Not sure exactly what goalkeepers you are referring to. We have tried so many but I thought all left/dropped because they weren't good enough.
Bringing up M Newman is ridiculous, he retired the year before and came back, I don't think his body is able for the demands of intercounty football.
I do agree with you regards Conlon and Lenihan, they are definitely players that should have got more of a chance and would be useful to have but I don't agree with you that we are missing a load of players because they had a falling out with Andy,
Barney12345 (Meath) - Posts: 33 - 13/04/2022 19:25:41
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "I think there's probably a simple reason for that though Brian. Bigger men, Derry were physical so Banty would not have gotten into it. Clare a much less physical side so Banty was able to get some room.
I think Newmans body had just tapped out so don't think you can blame Andy on that, Banty hasn't the size as I alluded to. I don't understand Donal Lenihan and always liked him and didn't seem to be given any sort of go the last time.
Unfortunately the game today demands a certain level of athleticism and physicality that some of our forwards don't have, no amount of man management will fix that. Not a slight on the lads ability but just the reality." Fair point Joe sometimes the simplest answer is the right one ;) Yeah Newman's body gave up on him but Andy asked him back last year and gave him indications he'd have a bigger part to play and then left him kicking his heels. Maybe he should've considered that before bringing Michael back.
Your last paragraph is spot on. We've a lot of similar forwards, small fast nippy guys but lack physicality and bigger lads who don't seem to be able to win their own ball and take on guys but after 6 years you'd have expected the manager to have figured that out and we'd not still be seeing the same mistakes from the same players who played under MOD and Andy happening.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 14/04/2022 11:49:55
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Replying To Barney12345: "Not talking for RD but have a few issues with your post.
Simonstown guys? Which guys? Niall Kane and B Conlon part of the panel this year. Tobin retired. Shane Gallagher is away this year I believe but he has been extremely unfortunate with injury during his career. Is P McKeever one of them? Some lads have to bide their time, can't just expect to walk on to starting team.
Fair enough re Donal Lenihan, should have got more playing time. Harry Rooney has said he doesn't want to play inter-county football whoever is the manager it doesn't matter.
Ruairi O'Coilean? Has he also fell out with NOM management because he has barely played any football for them. Not sure exactly what goalkeepers you are referring to. We have tried so many but I thought all left/dropped because they weren't good enough.
Bringing up M Newman is ridiculous, he retired the year before and came back, I don't think his body is able for the demands of intercounty football.
I do agree with you regards Conlon and Lenihan, they are definitely players that should have got more of a chance and would be useful to have but I don't agree with you that we are missing a load of players because they had a falling out with Andy," Thanks Barney and look good to get several points of view
Simonstown lads happened in his first or second year when several players dropped themselves of the panel Padraig McKeever, Mark McCabe and Brian Conlon when they weren't getting any game time, and weren't being allowed to play club football so not having any match sharpness
The goalkeepers the list is as long as your arm and in year one were cast aside for David Gallagher who was no longer playing in goals and last played intercounty 8 year previously and Joe Sheridan who'd never played in goals.
There's an established pattern of Andy mismanaging players and those were some of the incidents i could think off.
The point was more that from memory and accept i could be totally wrong is that RD said Andy didn't mismanage players and now when it was Banty from RD's home club that was involved suddenly Andy was mismanaging players. For me that's a double standard when there's a long established pattern and it only came up whena player from RD's club was involved
RD as i said if i'm wrong in what I've said or recalled you've my apologies on it. I'm not looking to have a go at you at all with on it.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 14/04/2022 11:59:38
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Replying To brian: "Fair point Joe sometimes the simplest answer is the right one ;) Yeah Newman's body gave up on him but Andy asked him back last year and gave him indications he'd have a bigger part to play and then left him kicking his heels. Maybe he should've considered that before bringing Michael back.
Your last paragraph is spot on. We've a lot of similar forwards, small fast nippy guys but lack physicality and bigger lads who don't seem to be able to win their own ball and take on guys but after 6 years you'd have expected the manager to have figured that out and we'd not still be seeing the same mistakes from the same players who played under MOD and Andy happening." To be fair, Michael wanted to give it a go and became clear his body wasn't where he thought it was, again not Andy's fault, if a player with newmans talent wants to give it a go you'd have to let him.
Again simple answers Brian, we don't have a rake of big forwards in the county to fit that mould, not having a go but when nippy lads don't get played you complain, but the reason they aren't being played is bigger lads like Jordon and Shane etc are? Andy isn't making that mistake as he isn't playing the smaller lads? You seem intent on blaming everything going wrong in the county on Andy but we have the players we have and we could bring in Jim
mcguiness and suddenly won't have a new panel, by in large this is these are the best in the county and that's it? One of the reasons no manager will touch Meath is that when we don't win it's the managers fault and next one will turn us into contenders, not that simple.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 14/04/2022 12:54:20
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From my reading of the posts RD has been more critical of Andy in the last year anyway. I suppose when you get the information "from the horses mouth so to speak" then that can have an influence also. As far as I can remember RD had a gripe with MOD and was supporting Andy in that context.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 14/04/2022 12:58:02
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Theres a pattern with young conlan played v dubs up on his own started that day.correct me if im wri6ng his next full start was v Galway in league.up front on his own again a hurricane.now figuring out what we need is not this managers strong points.and ireally struggle to find any of those.a ****show is what we have got def for last 2 years anyway.the sooner its over we can move on.we need a good tactical knowledgeable coach with an eye of how to pick players and mould them into an organised outfit.A MANAGER who will unite the whole county and get clubs behind the team.more a facilitator with strong personal skills.man management is a must with todays young players.having trials and trying find diamond maybe thats out there.young underage lads need confidence to get involved with seniors.just giving them lip service will not suffice.
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 14/04/2022 13:21:41
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Theres a pattern with young conlan played v dubs up on his own started that day.correct me if im wri6ng his next full start was v Galway in league.up front on his own again a hurricane.now figuring out what we need is not this managers strong points.and ireally struggle to find any of those.a ****show is what we have got def for last 2 years anyway.the sooner its over we can move on.we need a good tactical knowledgeable coach with an eye of how to pick players and mould them into an organised outfit.A MANAGER who will unite the whole county and get clubs behind the team.more a facilitator with strong personal skills.man management is a must with todays young players.having trials and trying find diamond maybe thats out there.young underage lads need confidence to get involved with seniors.just giving them lip service will not suffice." It's been a ****show as you say for years regardless who the manager has been. Clubs could have gotten rid of Andy they didn't he won the vote easily. So he has United the clubs. Time is up and he can't go further but like it or not we have had more success under Andy than anyone since Eamonn. Don't expect a new manager to come in and suddenly there's diamonds in the rough Andy has decided to ignore.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 14/04/2022 13:33:10
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "To be fair, Michael wanted to give it a go and became clear his body wasn't where he thought it was, again not Andy's fault, if a player with newmans talent wants to give it a go you'd have to let him.
Again simple answers Brian, we don't have a rake of big forwards in the county to fit that mould, not having a go but when nippy lads don't get played you complain, but the reason they aren't being played is bigger lads like Jordon and Shane etc are? Andy isn't making that mistake as he isn't playing the smaller lads? You seem intent on blaming everything going wrong in the county on Andy but we have the players we have and we could bring in Jim
mcguiness and suddenly won't have a new panel, by in large this is these are the best in the county and that's it? One of the reasons no manager will touch Meath is that when we don't win it's the managers fault and next one will turn us into contenders, not that simple." If MN was not fit enough to play some part (15/20 minutes) why was he on the bench? There is always a place for a forward who can score, however, playing him ( Banty) front on his own will never work. Just highlights the shortcomings of current management and majority of Meaths faults lie squarly at their door. I have no doubt there will be plenty of intrest in Meath job, manager has been in place for six years and the problems arise, not from critism, but being given free ride by CB, clubs and media for far too long
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 14/04/2022 13:55:59
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Replying To seadog54: "If MN was not fit enough to play some part (15/20 minutes) why was he on the bench? There is always a place for a forward who can score, however, playing him ( Banty) front on his own will never work. Just highlights the shortcomings of current management and majority of Meaths faults lie squarly at their door. I have no doubt there will be plenty of intrest in Meath job, manager has been in place for six years and the problems arise, not from critism, but being given free ride by CB, clubs and media for far too long" He was probably fit to play but wasn't the player he once was. Banty didn't start that came Seadog your mixing up the two finals. Banty started up top in a FF line with Newman in it but Newman dropped deep to get on the ball with Banty isolated. Not the way to play him agreed but as we were never going to dominate that day it would never suit Banty anyway.
I just hope posters on here will have the same energy for next manager.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 14/04/2022 14:39:39
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Replying To seadog54: "If MN was not fit enough to play some part (15/20 minutes) why was he on the bench? There is always a place for a forward who can score, however, playing him ( Banty) front on his own will never work. Just highlights the shortcomings of current management and majority of Meaths faults lie squarly at their door. I have no doubt there will be plenty of intrest in Meath job, manager has been in place for six years and the problems arise, not from critism, but being given free ride by CB, clubs and media for far too long" Agreed 100%...
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 14/04/2022 14:59:07
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "He was probably fit to play but wasn't the player he once was. Banty didn't start that came Seadog your mixing up the two finals. Banty started up top in a FF line with Newman in it but Newman dropped deep to get on the ball with Banty isolated. Not the way to play him agreed but as we were never going to dominate that day it would never suit Banty anyway.
I just hope posters on here will have the same energy for next manager." Same energy was given to mcentee lad.6 years for god sake.for the way we play u wouldnt have to be a brilliant player.its just fitness and ruuning the ball.scoring is not on agenda playing with fear and securing the ball with no risk taking.just look at the teams we were beaten thru those 6 years armagh galway rossies.all progressed tell me why we didnt.??
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 14/04/2022 16:09:22
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "He was probably fit to play but wasn't the player he once was. Banty didn't start that came Seadog your mixing up the two finals. Banty started up top in a FF line with Newman in it but Newman dropped deep to get on the ball with Banty isolated. Not the way to play him agreed but as we were never going to dominate that day it would never suit Banty anyway.
I just hope posters on here will have the same energy for next manager." I think the key issue is that the CB select a manager who can fill the role ,rather than fill the job with whoever might be available at the time. That would be a good start ! I for one supported Andy for the first 2 years or so of his reign. I accept he gave it his best shot,and thats all anyone can do. Without question he falls short by a distance as has been demontrated in the last couple of years.His coaching staff simply were not at the races either which did not help. Its a cop out to blame the players ! Did they play to their full potential ? NO . Why ? FEAR .A culture of fear set in just like covid ,and at about the same time as it happens. That fear factor is without any doubt down to management style of bluster as the primary motivational weapon .
The only thing that matters now is what happens going forward. Select the person with the required skillset for each key role. If there are shortcomings identify them and deal with them in a timely manner.We can waffle all we like but facts are facts .We have not been at the races for years now in terme of competence in key positions from the top down. Will that change ? Of course it can but only if there is a serious review and commitment to improve with politics not on any agenda. A spade is still a spade ,and we supporters dont have to accept rubbish , bluff and bluster if it becomes clear that Meath football suffers as a result.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 14/04/2022 16:15:38
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Same energy was given to mcentee lad.6 years for god sake.for the way we play u wouldnt have to be a brilliant player.its just fitness and ruuning the ball.scoring is not on agenda playing with fear and securing the ball with no risk taking.just look at the teams we were beaten thru those 6 years armagh galway rossies.all progressed tell me why we didnt.??" was interesting talk to a kildare man recently ad asking him how Glenn Ryan was being received down there. And he said that irrespective of the showing in games in div 1 this year...that there was a HUGE amount of goodwill towards him and his management team before they even played their first game . Now...from memory, after andy winning the all ireland with BBoden ...he was "sought" after ....but how much real thinking went into that ? ...was it as much about moving on very quickly by the CB after MOD. ? Like ...the same people who appointed Andy back then , are still very much involved in decision making today...and if they were being honest they never had much truck with andy in the first place...i think some of them were waiting for him to fall . Im not saying that this is an excuse for so some of the subsequent shortcomings, but what i am saying is that this was doomed to failure from day 1 , I pity the next person in. The first thing they have got to make sure is that they have the complete support of the CB & The public....what that allows for is a secure safe , happy environment , from which a squad .has a chance to DEVELOP , under the right person;s guiding hand
I dont know if glenn ryan is the right person...but i do suspect the environment that he operates within is a lot healthier than andys ever was or had
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 14/04/2022 16:43:33
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "He was probably fit to play but wasn't the player he once was. Banty didn't start that came Seadog your mixing up the two finals. Banty started up top in a FF line with Newman in it but Newman dropped deep to get on the ball with Banty isolated. Not the way to play him agreed but as we were never going to dominate that day it would never suit Banty anyway.
I just hope posters on here will have the same energy for next manager." Re MN lt was last Leinster final. Had to be worth a punt for last quarer, otherwise why have him in subs. It was madness to put Banty in against one of the best set of defenders to play the game and expect different outcome, understand they were different games but both examples of poor planning.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 14/04/2022 17:42:29
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Ok I see I've been mentioned a bit on few posts. I'll try to respond to the points in this one post.
Firstly , chalk and cheese differences between the simonstown carry on and what happened with banty.
Firstly those players had been given ample chances and hard to say but none of them performed to a acceptable standard at that time. One in particular went on a tantrum demanding that he start, and was rightfully told no, earn ur starting position, at the time 3 senior players went to Andy and said if they can dictate , then we are leaving. As happened Andy rightly stood his ground and those returning apologised for their attitude and all has been good since (I'm using those terms as not to identify anyone if possible). Banty felt a bit lost and was hoping for a more prominent role v Derry , he didn't get that and felt disappointed, and thought he would be better taking a year out and doing a bit of traveling (he's currently in Holland as far as I know ). Now my point re andys manager style is he is not the type for arm around the shoulder that James clearly needed, and dare I say Shane mcentee is sorely missed in this particular incident, as he has been the one to go to and I'd say James would still be on panel if he was there , he was the intermediary between the players (apart from keoghan, McGill, menton, jones and O'Sullivan) who would either go to Shane or Andy with their concerns etc, however the rest for most part would go to Shane who from what I heard always put the player ahead of the manager/ father. Now let me be clear I am not saying anything negative in regards cillian. He isn't in the position a wet week , and could have done nothing about it. However going forward I am sure he will be as effective as Shane was. The difference is /was one was feeling down and the others were been arrogant and letting their egos write cheques their performances AT THE TIME, weren't cashing. One needed a arm around the shoulders, the others needed to be told don't let the door hit you on way out.
As for lenihane by his own admission he just doesn't want to play ic football, we can't make him. I take the point that James style of play may not have been effective against Derry. However I think in hindsight a chance to build up his confidence in what was probably nothing more than a challenge match should have happened. That's me. I don't pick the team. But if he had played and popped over a couple of points, he'd still be on the panel.
Anyway if there is anything I missed out on I'll get back to it.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 16/04/2022 13:32:12
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Replying To royaldunne: "Ok I see I've been mentioned a bit on few posts. I'll try to respond to the points in this one post.
Firstly , chalk and cheese differences between the simonstown carry on and what happened with banty.
Firstly those players had been given ample chances and hard to say but none of them performed to a acceptable standard at that time. One in particular went on a tantrum demanding that he start, and was rightfully told no, earn ur starting position, at the time 3 senior players went to Andy and said if they can dictate , then we are leaving. As happened Andy rightly stood his ground and those returning apologised for their attitude and all has been good since (I'm using those terms as not to identify anyone if possible). Banty felt a bit lost and was hoping for a more prominent role v Derry , he didn't get that and felt disappointed, and thought he would be better taking a year out and doing a bit of traveling (he's currently in Holland as far as I know ). Now my point re andys manager style is he is not the type for arm around the shoulder that James clearly needed, and dare I say Shane mcentee is sorely missed in this particular incident, as he has been the one to go to and I'd say James would still be on panel if he was there , he was the intermediary between the players (apart from keoghan, McGill, menton, jones and O'Sullivan) who would either go to Shane or Andy with their concerns etc, however the rest for most part would go to Shane who from what I heard always put the player ahead of the manager/ father. Now let me be clear I am not saying anything negative in regards cillian. He isn't in the position a wet week , and could have done nothing about it. However going forward I am sure he will be as effective as Shane was. The difference is /was one was feeling down and the others were been arrogant and letting their egos write cheques their performances AT THE TIME, weren't cashing. One needed a arm around the shoulders, the others needed to be told don't let the door hit you on way out.
As for lenihane by his own admission he just doesn't want to play ic football, we can't make him. I take the point that James style of play may not have been effective against Derry. However I think in hindsight a chance to build up his confidence in what was probably nothing more than a challenge match should have happened. That's me. I don't pick the team. But if he had played and popped over a couple of points, he'd still be on the panel.
Anyway if there is anything I missed out on I'll get back to it." Hey RD good response and look you make decent points. It was myself who brought you up on this and hope you can understand was more asking about your thoughts (which i agree with on some and see you've made your points well) than trying to call you out and point score.
I think gone are the days of Andy, a manager now has to put their arm around the shoulder and provide support, data, advice and information to each individual player. Its up to them to build players up not to be detached. If as you say the inner workings were players went through Shane etc then that's just out of step nonsense. Gavin, McGuinness etc connect with their players and can give one or two data points to each guy and that's all they needed. Obviously none of us are in the dressing room with the team to know the full inner workings but things seem to be years behind in current management style and thinking. Hopefully that is one of the first key points of hiring the next manager, an ability to connect and work with each individual player.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 19/04/2022 11:59:43
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Replying To brian: "Hey RD good response and look you make decent points. It was myself who brought you up on this and hope you can understand was more asking about your thoughts (which i agree with on some and see you've made your points well) than trying to call you out and point score.
I think gone are the days of Andy, a manager now has to put their arm around the shoulder and provide support, data, advice and information to each individual player. Its up to them to build players up not to be detached. If as you say the inner workings were players went through Shane etc then that's just out of step nonsense. Gavin, McGuinness etc connect with their players and can give one or two data points to each guy and that's all they needed. Obviously none of us are in the dressing room with the team to know the full inner workings but things seem to be years behind in current management style and thinking. Hopefully that is one of the first key points of hiring the next manager, an ability to connect and work with each individual player." Brian I know for a fact that cluxton was a crucial go between for Gavin and the panel hence his loss is huge. Michael Murphy did the same for McGuiness. McGuinness fell out with Cassidy.
Gavin fell out with Connolly and Dean rock early on in his career.
Absolute nonsense to suggest players need an arm around them and this is the issue. Andy's tactics are extremely limited both going forward and from kick outs, that is it.
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 19/04/2022 14:30:39
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Has there been any word about any challenge games over the weekend? Two weeks away from the championship then surely this weekend just gone would have been a crucial time for a challenge to fine tune preparations with as close to possible to the starting team.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 19/04/2022 15:58:55
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Replying To stillaroyal: "Has there been any word about any challenge games over the weekend? Two weeks away from the championship then surely this weekend just gone would have been a crucial time for a challenge to fine tune preparations with as close to possible to the starting team." There has been plenty of challenge matches going on, they played Monaghan last night.
redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 404 - 20/04/2022 11:37:58
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Replying To redser123: "There has been plenty of challenge matches going on, they played Monaghan last night." any updates, scores, new players or anything coming from what you heard redser?
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 20/04/2022 12:40:48
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