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Your point regarding the forwards is well made and I would agree. Andy seems to have decided rightly or wrongly that these forwards plus the two Wallaces and Banty are his best options for the championship. He musnt be totally happy though as the free taking responsibilities have moved around a lot.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 21/03/2022 10:40:10 2406115 Link 0 |
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Sure how could he be happy with the free taking, lads scoring difficult kicks and missing relative sitters. There's nothing as a manager he can do with this, it's down to player concentration and practice Of our forwards, McMahon, Walsh, Morris, O'Sullivan all take frees for their clubs. Hogan is doing well to be fair to him, and O' Reilly seemed to be our main kicker for the previous few years and yet none seem to have an 80-85% strike rate which is a minimum for Senior intercounty. Now I know lads give up an awful lot of time with training and matches anyway, but to be a top class free taker you need about an extra half an hour and 40-50 balls after every training, 4-5 days a week to gain consistency. That's on the players head and not on the managers, he can advise, facilitate and even allocate a bit of time in training for them but after that the players need to do it themselves
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 582 - 21/03/2022 11:23:18 2406133 Link 1 |
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you hit the nail on the head there. Don't like slating players but the Wallace's and McMahon have had so many chances with so little return, if these are the best we have in reserve then we are in dire straits indeed. Even our starting 15, not many if any would make a top 8 county setup to be frank, last years u20's also were poor up front, they had Dublin for the taking if they had 1 or 2 half decent forwards. Cian ward is better than what's playing at the moment and he's nearly 40. AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 148 - 21/03/2022 11:33:42 2406139 Link 2 |
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Very difficult to imagine Meath having much of a say in upcoming championship. Team selection seems to be a given even though our forwards fail to produce game after game. Walsh, O Reilly, COS, Costello, J Wallace have only scored 2/3 points from play after six games. Morris top scorer from play with only 7/8 points. This is nowhere near standard required if we hope for an extended summer. Derry next week is a good run out prior to Leinster, they have been hyped up, however, Sundays loss highlighted how much they depend on one player and when he was missing they produced little or nothing. On a positive note we survived Div 2 and will at least compete in championship, but have gone backwards and a big task awaits once we get this very poor season over and done with.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 21/03/2022 14:23:29 2406214 Link 10 |
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So being the nerd I am I've had a look over the 8 games this season. We've scored 6-85 across those games, 5-47 from open play, 1-36 from placed balls and 0-2 from advanced marks. From that total Jordan Morris has top scored 2-18 with 1-7 from open play, Next are Shane Walsh and Harry Hogan with 0-11 each with Shane having 0-5 from play. Banty Conlon has 0-8 from open play and 0-7 came in the O'Byrne cup. And Cillian O'Sullivan has 0-7 with 0-5 from open play. then there's a whole bunch of guys with 2-5 scores across the rest of the games. Backs up the point that we don't have a forward strategy and we're lacking multiple players who can get multiple score's from play. I'm reading game of our lives by Fergal Lynch and when you look at our teams in the 80's 90's 00's and even 10's we'd multiple lads who could almost guarantee you 3-4 scores a game outside of your free taker. As i say i don't know if it's the system we play, players are not confident enough to score or not accurate enough, our scoring needs to go up massively or we're going no where fast in a hurry. Modern game on firm ground requires 18-20 scores to win you a game and we lack any ability to score i that frequency. Maybe we just don't the forwards of the ability of yesteryear. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/03/2022 15:26:28 2406247 Link 8 |
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Couple of things on the forward's. We haven't a marquee forward who can win their own ball, shoot from distance and with power and strength. I'm thinking in the form of orurke, Ollie Murphy geraghty, Etc etc. Dublin have them , Donegal have them. The closest we got over last 10 or more years was Newman and Reilly. What we have is classy nippy little forwards the kind who would thrive off a Murphy or geraghty, our problem is they are all the same type of player , cos , banty 2 wallace's, Morris , McMahon Costello etc. the one hope I had was walsh I thought this could be the guy, now he still has time but as yet he hasn't produced what I'd hoped. But I don't want to be too hard on him as he is still very young and could really develop. Looking around the county , the problem is I don't see the type of forward either. As was said previously ward is the only one that fits the bill and he's pushing 40, the other is maybe lenihane again he doesn't want to play. So what does Andy or the next manager do ? Unless we look at maybe someone who has declared for Dublin or another that might switch. And that I can't see happening. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/03/2022 15:32:10 2406253 Link 0 |
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Who is the forwards who could do better ? Genuine question cause apart from ward (40) and lenihane (doesn't want to commit) who is there ?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/03/2022 15:33:53 2406255 Link 0 |
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The forwards are not there. Plain and simple. People can blame mcentee until the cows come home but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. We don't have the type of player I mentioned earlier who those small nippy forwards would thrive off. I said previously you could have boylan odywer gavin and mcguinness there and it wouldn't make any difference unfortunately. I ended up yesterday talking to a member of the back room , I asked was there unity he said the teams would lay down their life for each other and the manager, I asked what about next year, he said Andy is seeing out this year and he is not looking to stay on, he then told me that no one in the county wants to take it over as cb, supporters and everyone else have way too high of expectations, he said those been motioned for the job wouldn't touch it. As all it is is hassle. I left our conversation and indeed the match feeling very deflated. We are probably doing as well as we can, and it will continue like that for the short to medium term , until the likes of Emmanuel and last years minors come of age. So who is going to take the job
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/03/2022 15:43:24 2406260 Link 0 |
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Great points RD, and I'm not trying to say we've a marquee forward at all. I'd say we haven't first cousin of one at present. Wouldn't it be something to pull a Boylan and stick a Geraghty or Brennie Reilly up front and turn in to something. I would say that Walsh, O'Reilly, Morris and Costello maybe need a word or two. They all have the size and thus should have the power if they could use it. I think you've a lot of the guys coming through like Frayne, Emmanuel, and O'Mhurchu who are all decent sizes and you'd hope would develop too. MOD and Andy seem to have favoured the small nippy guys and as you say they have a place but look at the dubs and most of there guys can win their own ball or shield and protect it to at least create a scoring chance for those around them. And Tyrone went with the old route 1 ball a fair bit last year into McCurry and McShane with Connor McKenna. A couple of big uns can be as useful as a team of small ones ;) Stephen Bray wasn't a huge guy either but could win his own ball and leave you for dead and that's just ability and desire which is within the player or it isn't. Think whomever takes over in 2023 needs to mix up the panel a bit and bring a few guys who can change the game so we have a plan b and C and not just replace like with like of small nippy lads. Whilst i've mentioned a couple of lads there I wouldn't be rushing them in yet either, let them develop and enjoy their football. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/03/2022 16:04:45 2406271 Link 4 |
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Unfair to say DL not willing to commit, sat on the bench while management continued with lads who failed to deliver. Nothing will change short term, but have to expect a greater return than 2/3 points from play over last six games from several nailed on starters.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 21/03/2022 16:07:12 2406276 Link 8 |
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RD I'm not trying to blame Andy at all and i hope that's coming across. I'm trying to look at things in terms of style, players ability etc and make an argument for the players themselves not being there. I would say Morris, Costello, O'Reilly and Walsh are all 6 foot ish if not more and should be all well able to win ball and create something. Improved S&C could help build power within them if they could show the desire to improve. On your chat with backroom staff I would take that with a pinch of salt as they're loyal to Andy and not going to say anything not towing the party line or of disharmony in the camp. I would disagree with their assessment of CB and supporters expectations, i would say given we were in division 1 in 2020 and have had several minor wining teams in 2017 onwards that we have reasonable expectations that there's scope to be better than what we've seen on the pitch since 2021. I'd also say of course they'll say no one wants the job for those reasons in the hope that something might change. If that's the attitude of the backroom staff then for me none of them should in fact be in the roles they're in and that they're accepting of their fate already that must be manifesting in to the team and there's no accountability for poor showings. Agh sure we're not any god and we gave it a lash. That's thoroughly unacceptable to me as a supporter. Look at Roscommon, Armagh and Monaghan and now Kildare as well, most with populations smaller than ours and they're consistently improving and moving forward. Armagh and Derry have improved incrementally year on year coming from division 3 and 4 and that's based of little to no underage success, surely we as a county should be doing better. I don't believe (and open to being told differently) that the team lacks for anything so why is that incremental improvement not there in Meath. Sorry if that appears like I'm shooting the messenger, no way intended at you RD i know your own passion and support and that couldn't have been an easy conversation to listen too and can absolutely understand how deflated you'd feel. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/03/2022 16:24:50 2406283 Link 11 |
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I wouldnt be waiting too much longer to call in Eoghan Frayne and Diarmuid Moriarty, Both are already better than many of the senior forwards on this panel in my opinion.
redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 404 - 21/03/2022 16:28:36 2406285 Link 1 |
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Jack Flynn is surely another name that could be thrown into the mix
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/03/2022 16:49:09 2406292 Link 3 |
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Rd you seem to have a link with Andy and the management. It was obvious that there were no forward tactics and that there is a big problem with the selection of the team. The game was rescued by forwards coming off the bench, LMFM correctly stated that there was no sign of attacking movement until subs came on. These subs are the ones Andy does not want to play , are still sticking around for the moment for no obvious reason ,and he uses when his own favourites are in trouble. There are as many effective forwards who are not there because they could not stomach having to look on anymore. Such was the case against Clare who were beating us. Now Clare are a hurling County and you can imagine how much they would beat our hurlers by. A footballing County should have been 15 pts clear. I don't doubt Andy put a massive effort into team training and preparation but this wont do. Is there any chance he would stand down from the team selection for the championship .All we need is someone who will pick a team on merit. In that scenario the likes of Donal Lenihan and Mikey Newman who are solid Meathmen if not Mcentee cronies might be available. Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 549 - 21/03/2022 17:22:56 2406298 Link 0 |
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Was at that game yday and i have to question why a lad kicked 5 frees last week and is not really used the next game.seems strange goin on the averages that he was getting them.i watched him practise few before game.i was like everyone else thinking we are goin to play front foot football from here out.how wrong could one be.fear for us in championship if this is whats goin to be goin on.harnan was so missed yday steady as rock they ran thru us at times especially round the middle areas.he def would have helped in that regard.sullivan does more damage in my eyes than good.kicking ball backwards the whole timerunning up blind alleys.and generally flitting in and out of games. Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 21/03/2022 17:35:12 2406300 Link 0 |
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Donegal wouldn't have won an All Ireland without McBrearty or Murphy, both u21s at the time with McBrearty only a year out of minor.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 21/03/2022 18:38:11 2406312 Link 11 |
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Maybe it just me, but I feel too much is being expected of the lads in ff line, Morris and Walsh are 21 going 22 and have been thrown in the deep end with no established senior players around them to help. I think of the likes of O'Donoghue with Mayo and how Cillian O'Conner has probably help him settle in from underage to senior football. I also see a big deal being made about height. If a player is good enough he should be playing regardless of size, good player can come in all shapes and sizes. Morris, Walsh and O Sullivan named the last day couldn't be considered a "small" inside line. Jimmy Hyland, Jamie Brennan, McCurry, Darragh Canavan, Cormac Costello are all div.1 forwards playing well and are "slight" in stature. These are talented bunch of lads and hopefully in the future we see the best out of them with the new management. I mean, we also had the top scorer in club football in Ireland last year playing in Meath…. mr.lucky (Meath) - Posts: 12 - 21/03/2022 18:58:34 2406317 Link 0 |
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Murphy was 23 when Donegal won their all ireland and i don't think either player are of that calibre. If they were both should already be starting for Meath. They were surrounded by plenty of lads in there mid to late 20's who were hardened campaigners too, something we sorely lack bar Menton, Keoghan and Cillian.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 22/03/2022 09:42:07 2406366 Link 5 |
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Let them play and develop with the U20's they have a better chance of winning something with them, if McEntee left well enough alone last year we could have went far in that competition.
AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 148 - 22/03/2022 09:49:17 2406369 Link 3 |
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You do make a good point there but then kinda answer it yourself. Cillian plays inside with Morris and Walsh so they do have an experienced head. It makes the decision to ignore Donal Lenihan and go with younger lads more frustrating. The thing about size is that despite having four big guys (Walsh, Costello, Morris and O'Reilly) and Cillian isn't small either is that very few of them can win their own ball and hold it up and bring other guys into play. And look maybe that's why Andy is playing that running game is for that reason. As you say players come in all shapes and sizes, but look at giles as an example, 5'10 at most but could win ball in midfield, hold it up, spread it about and rarely if ever knocked off it (now yes he's maybe an exception) so there's room for the slight lads if they can do it. I mean, we also had the top scorer in club football in Ireland last year playing in Meath…." Assume this is Aaron Lynch you're talking about or am i misinformed? brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 22/03/2022 09:56:50 2406370 Link 7 |