Meath Forum

Premier Football Division

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Hey, I'm wondering if anyone can clarify. I have been told that for the premier football this year that the league rules apply since there was no b leagues this year so that teams only have to Name there 15 or 10 players that can't play second team and this will still be the case when the first team championship starts too, so nobody will be losing players when the championship starts. I can't find anything to verify if this is right or wrong or if the usual championship rules apply and most people in the club have a different opinion but no one actually know. So if anyone can clarify or let me know where i could find out, it would be greatly appreciated. cheers

de_man (Meath) - Posts: 192 - 26/07/2021 14:04:47    2364290

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Replying To de_man:  "Hey, I'm wondering if anyone can clarify. I have been told that for the premier football this year that the league rules apply since there was no b leagues this year so that teams only have to Name there 15 or 10 players that can't play second team and this will still be the case when the first team championship starts too, so nobody will be losing players when the championship starts. I can't find anything to verify if this is right or wrong or if the usual championship rules apply and most people in the club have a different opinion but no one actually know. So if anyone can clarify or let me know where i could find out, it would be greatly appreciated. cheers"
When first teams plays championship no player that played can play Premier championship

royal1967 (Meath) - Posts: 293 - 27/07/2021 09:29:30    2364569

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As far as I am aware this year is as normal.

Each team has to name 10/15 players depending grade club etc who can't drop down to the team below at all. After that all players are free to play championship for their 2nd team until they play championship for their first team. Once they play championship for their first team even if it is only 1 minute they are then ineligible to play for their 2nd team.

No change from previous "Normal Years" as far as I know.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 27/07/2021 10:49:56    2364604

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Senior clubs named 13, ifc named 10 and junior named 8.?
Once "real" championship starts players who played in that can't drop down.
Expect a host of walkovers from round 4 on

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 28/07/2021 06:30:23    2364943

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The small prestige of winning a junior b / c / d surely trumps this setup?

lost its championship appeal which is a shame

hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 424 - 28/07/2021 16:12:19    2365170

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Replying To hurlit:  "The small prestige of winning a junior b / c / d surely trumps this setup?

lost its championship appeal which is a shame"
certainly has lost a lot I think overall , Just wondering is there an option for Premier 1,2, 3 to compete in a Senior B Championship with the other Divisions form 4 down entering back into Junior A, B , D

Bear10 (Meath) - Posts: 463 - 28/07/2021 16:40:56    2365186

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Replying To Bear10:  "certainly has lost a lot I think overall , Just wondering is there an option for Premier 1,2, 3 to compete in a Senior B Championship with the other Divisions form 4 down entering back into Junior A, B , D"
no matter what you call it its a reserve championship

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 29/07/2021 08:16:40    2365359

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Replying To Brownepat:  "no matter what you call it its a reserve championship"
It's the B league rebranded as Championship. Didn't even bother to put the games in neutral venues to at least try and make it feel like real Championship. It is dead and buried already. Zero interest in it from players or supporters. But the powers that be used it to get the Junior clubs vote and make sure the restructuring got over the line.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 29/07/2021 09:31:49    2365372

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "It's the B league rebranded as Championship. Didn't even bother to put the games in neutral venues to at least try and make it feel like real Championship. It is dead and buried already. Zero interest in it from players or supporters. But the powers that be used it to get the Junior clubs vote and make sure the restructuring got over the line."
It just gives game time to young lads from Minor up to progress that are not physically strong enough to play 1st team but nobody really cares about it if genuine

Bear10 (Meath) - Posts: 463 - 29/07/2021 17:47:03    2365571

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Walk overs beginning to creep in in the Premier championship before the 1st team championship even starts.
Hard to blame most clubs as the strive to give football to 2nd team players and with no B leagues this is the only chance.
But really county board needs to box clever and refuse entry to clubs that don't have the numbers.
A right few divisions will end up a farce.

Strange to see the two former Intermediate clubS dunboyne and don/ash find the going tough in division 1. More sculdugery perhaps. Time will tell as round 4&5 will see honest teams fIeld. Strange to see dunboyne 3rds concede in a wake up week for the club

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 31/07/2021 08:04:43    2366003

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Replying To Brownepat:  "Senior clubs named 13, ifc named 10 and junior named 8.?
Once "real" championship starts players who played in that can't drop down.
Expect a host of walkovers from round 4 on"
Co. Board sold this idea to clubs (well actually dunboyne did ) by saying the 13 players or whatever number a club named were the only ones who could not play reserve and it was to be different to the old rules when teams were in junior championship proper in that players outside of those named could fluctuate up and down between teams.
Now of course it wouldn't be the first time our Co. Board changed something after agreeing to something different

johnsee (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 31/07/2021 11:37:11    2366034

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Replying To johnsee:  "Co. Board sold this idea to clubs (well actually dunboyne did ) by saying the 13 players or whatever number a club named were the only ones who could not play reserve and it was to be different to the old rules when teams were in junior championship proper in that players outside of those named could fluctuate up and down between teams.
Now of course it wouldn't be the first time our Co. Board changed something after agreeing to something different"
Just to clarify Dunboyne didn't sell this to Clubs. A man from Dunboyne did. There is a difference. Dunboyne voted against the restructuring proposal because of the fact their 2nd team would be removed from the Intermediate Championship.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 31/07/2021 12:10:34    2366044

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I presumed the rules allowing clubs to name 13 players and have free rein to pick from the rest was to benefit smaller clubs rather than any bigger ones, because it allows them to double up and field 2 teams using a limited number of players. Clubs whose 1st team is in the JFC only need to name 8 players ineligible for the Premier grade, so for the first few rounds of Premier can effectively field 2 teams using only 21 players since the lower Premier tiers can go down to 13 a side. Add in the usual fiddling of the lists to include players who are retired and abroad and you can almost field your first team as your 2nd team for a few rounds.

I was never fond of this situation from the start, and the usual response is that it "gives more games", but in reality it wrecks the integrity of the competitions and turns the first few weeks of the Premier into a totally different competition to the closing stages. As was mentioned before I can foresee a pile of walkovers starting in round 4 as teams get the rug pulled out from under them and can't play their best players in their second team anymore.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 31/07/2021 13:08:53    2366061

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I presumed the rules allowing clubs to name 13 players and have free rein to pick from the rest was to benefit smaller clubs rather than any bigger ones, because it allows them to double up and field 2 teams using a limited number of players. Clubs whose 1st team is in the JFC only need to name 8 players ineligible for the Premier grade, so for the first few rounds of Premier can effectively field 2 teams using only 21 players since the lower Premier tiers can go down to 13 a side. Add in the usual fiddling of the lists to include players who are retired and abroad and you can almost field your first team as your 2nd team for a few rounds.

I was never fond of this situation from the start, and the usual response is that it "gives more games", but in reality it wrecks the integrity of the competitions and turns the first few weeks of the Premier into a totally different competition to the closing stages. As was mentioned before I can foresee a pile of walkovers starting in round 4 as teams get the rug pulled out from under them and can't play their best players in their second team anymore."
To be fair is this situation not unique to this year because the premier didn't run alongside the senior, junior and inter? In a normal year I think they run at the same time so this wouldn't be an issue it's just the lack of a leagues that has essentially made the premier championship into a league

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 31/07/2021 13:24:49    2366066

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Just to clarify Dunboyne didn't sell this to Clubs. A man from Dunboyne did. There is a difference. Dunboyne voted against the restructuring proposal because of the fact their 2nd team would be removed from the Intermediate Championship."
I'll take your word then that dunboyne voted against proposal pity a lot more didn't. However the question remains is this rule in or not my belief is that it is in and for entirety of championship not just till first team starts. Looking at this years bye laws regarding this competition it states about naming players but nothing about players outside of that list being held if they played higher grade.

johnsee (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 31/07/2021 19:01:41    2366195

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Just to clarify Dunboyne didn't sell this to Clubs. A man from Dunboyne did. There is a difference. Dunboyne voted against the restructuring proposal because of the fact their 2nd team would be removed from the Intermediate Championship."
Dunboyne didn't win 1 game against any intermediate clubs and we are relegating 6 teams in two years so more difficult competition now than then. But they are now in the A leagues which is very poor for first teams because we will be playing way more second teams from next year when covid is less an issue.

I think rural clubs get confused around this issue. They think because fellas around that Dunboyne team are against it, we should be for it.

I believe second and third teams should be put back into junior groups and winners can go into junior q finals. With 16 and 16 in senior and intermediate, they won't be an issue but they should be removed from A leagues and would support you if you brought this forward.

truegael49 (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 31/07/2021 22:23:26    2366261

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Replying To truegael49:  "Dunboyne didn't win 1 game against any intermediate clubs and we are relegating 6 teams in two years so more difficult competition now than then. But they are now in the A leagues which is very poor for first teams because we will be playing way more second teams from next year when covid is less an issue.

I think rural clubs get confused around this issue. They think because fellas around that Dunboyne team are against it, we should be for it.

I believe second and third teams should be put back into junior groups and winners can go into junior q finals. With 16 and 16 in senior and intermediate, they won't be an issue but they should be removed from A leagues and would support you if you brought this forward."
Not sure what Dunboyne not beating any intermediate team while there were in intermediate has to do with my post. I was just pointing out that it wasn't a Dunboyne proposal and wasn't sold to the clubs by them and that they were one of the few clubs who voted against it. Obviously the small junior clubs will be for it because you are making it easier for mediocre teams to win a championship but there can be no debate that the junior championship was more competitive with them in it. In their own group of 2nd teams originally and then by the time the junior clubs play them in the 1/4 finals they have lost all the players they are gonna lose to their first teams.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 01/08/2021 10:26:25    2366315

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Not sure what Dunboyne not beating any intermediate team while there were in intermediate has to do with my post. I was just pointing out that it wasn't a Dunboyne proposal and wasn't sold to the clubs by them and that they were one of the few clubs who voted against it. Obviously the small junior clubs will be for it because you are making it easier for mediocre teams to win a championship but there can be no debate that the junior championship was more competitive with them in it. In their own group of 2nd teams originally and then by the time the junior clubs play them in the 1/4 finals they have lost all the players they are gonna lose to their first teams."
Nothing against you or Dunboyne. Fine club. The point is they did not trouble the IFC. 6 clubs playing this year in the IFC will be in the junior by the end of next year. Weakest teams will be in Junior B. That will make the Junior A very competitive and not mediocre as you say. Second teams rarely troubled the JFC until all the grades ballooned out and having them in their own group means only 1 or 2 teams come out to QF. I think that is fine and I don't think they will beat any of those 6 or others in qf, maybe the odd year.

But now there are second teams all the way through the A leagues playing all year. That will mean intermediate clubs playing down the grades eventually. Overall it is much better for senior clubs and I think intermediate and junior clubs got distracted by opposition from your club in particular.

We disagree on the why but I think we both agree that it should be reversed. Senior second teams back into second team groups in junior and out of A leagues into their own B leagues.

truegael49 (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 01/08/2021 14:26:44    2366418

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Replying To truegael49:  "Nothing against you or Dunboyne. Fine club. The point is they did not trouble the IFC. 6 clubs playing this year in the IFC will be in the junior by the end of next year. Weakest teams will be in Junior B. That will make the Junior A very competitive and not mediocre as you say. Second teams rarely troubled the JFC until all the grades ballooned out and having them in their own group means only 1 or 2 teams come out to QF. I think that is fine and I don't think they will beat any of those 6 or others in qf, maybe the odd year.

But now there are second teams all the way through the A leagues playing all year. That will mean intermediate clubs playing down the grades eventually. Overall it is much better for senior clubs and I think intermediate and junior clubs got distracted by opposition from your club in particular.

We disagree on the why but I think we both agree that it should be reversed. Senior second teams back into second team groups in junior and out of A leagues into their own B leagues."
Yes we agree they should be put back the junior championship and taken out of A Leagues. (Dunboyne not my club by the way) but go back to the way it was.

They may not have troubled an intermediate team in the year they played there but the fact is they stayed up on the field so would have been intermediate again last year. If they or Ashbourne or any 2nd team for that matter are good enough to stay up in intermediate they should be allowed to.

There was a lot of opposition and resentment from junior clubs to 2nd teams being in the junior championship and the CB or the people involved in this restructuring identified that and used it to get their vote by offer them a chance to get rid of the 2nd teams.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 01/08/2021 14:51:56    2366436

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Yes we agree they should be put back the junior championship and taken out of A Leagues. (Dunboyne not my club by the way) but go back to the way it was.

They may not have troubled an intermediate team in the year they played there but the fact is they stayed up on the field so would have been intermediate again last year. If they or Ashbourne or any 2nd team for that matter are good enough to stay up in intermediate they should be allowed to.

There was a lot of opposition and resentment from junior clubs to 2nd teams being in the junior championship and the CB or the people involved in this restructuring identified that and used it to get their vote by offer them a chance to get rid of the 2nd teams."
Next year will be the first year of the new restructure. At the end of that year, if you can get your club, not Dunboyne, to bring something to reverse it, I think the junior and intermediate clubs will support you when they see the new structure in action in the leagues through the year.

I don't think senior clubs will support you but there are enough rural clubs there. I will be pushing our lads to go for any reverse of it this time. The premier championship is good for intermediate clubs but the league change is a disaster in my view.

truegael49 (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 01/08/2021 15:51:01    2366450

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