Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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Replying To brian:  "He's not the only man for the job. This is a very closed off opinion. He's repeatedly failed in the job in my opinion. The last good results in the job were in 2019 when he was promoted. That's two years ago. And in that time he's failed to address two fundamental issues in the game. Not just failed virtually ignored them.

Now as i have repeatedly expressed what weight does Brian on Hoganstand.com carry. Absolutely not a bit, and I fully expect that Andy is in charge for 2022. But that doesn't mean i won't voice my opinion and suggest how as a county our team could be better. HOw as a manager Andy should be better.

Speaking about bringing through Morris, Costello and Hickey, that's what he's supposed to do. It's not rocket science to bring the best young talent in the county into the senior set up. He's hardly taken someone no body spoke about from obscurity and made them a superstar. Its not like any of those three and Shane Walsh were unknown to us within the county. Mick O'Dowd brought through Newman, Wallace, McGill, Cillian O'Sullivan and many others. That's what managers should do.

Great backroom team, none of who challenge him in any way at all. Boylan always questioned and was pushed to be better by input from Pat Reynolds, Tony, Brennan, Frank Foley and Eamonn O'Brien.

And lets not think ability and availability mean the sum total of anything. lets not forget Eamonn O'Brien was sacked after an all ireland semi final and Leinster title. He was backed by his squad and look what happened."
Have to agree you make very good points. I am amused at some parochial attitudes where we will support OUR man at all costs. Amused with the use of the words "negative" and "unhelpfull". It seems offering constructive comments are regarded as above unless you are "positive" towards Andy Mc Entee. Put the forum on hold comment is equivalent to kicking the toys out of the pram and childish. This forum is about opinions expressed freely. No attacks on anyones character or integrity are allowed by admin, and righly so. All is fair after that. I have been critical of management and the county board because of their toleration of lack of attention to basic areas of preparation over a very long period. I make no apologies for being critical . I am only loyal to Meath football and attempts to improve standards generally. I see several others on here seem to have the same objective..Maybe those that want one way traffic only could get off the bus at the terminus, and just dont re board. That is their right also.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/07/2021 15:41:48    2362894

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I don't see any point in changing manager , maybe Andy might shake up his back room team , new coach might freshing things up and new ideas , plenty of options to improve and push to the next level . Maybe one of the best things we could do is bringing in a free taking coach, working with players once a week on free taking . If we had to land most of our frees last Sunday we may we'll be looking forward to a Leinster final now.

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 22/07/2021 15:46:58    2362895

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Replying To brian:  "He's not the only man for the job. This is a very closed off opinion. He's repeatedly failed in the job in my opinion. The last good results in the job were in 2019 when he was promoted. That's two years ago. And in that time he's failed to address two fundamental issues in the game. Not just failed virtually ignored them.

Now as i have repeatedly expressed what weight does Brian on Hoganstand.com carry. Absolutely not a bit, and I fully expect that Andy is in charge for 2022. But that doesn't mean i won't voice my opinion and suggest how as a county our team could be better. HOw as a manager Andy should be better.

Speaking about bringing through Morris, Costello and Hickey, that's what he's supposed to do. It's not rocket science to bring the best young talent in the county into the senior set up. He's hardly taken someone no body spoke about from obscurity and made them a superstar. Its not like any of those three and Shane Walsh were unknown to us within the county. Mick O'Dowd brought through Newman, Wallace, McGill, Cillian O'Sullivan and many others. That's what managers should do.

Great backroom team, none of who challenge him in any way at all. Boylan always questioned and was pushed to be better by input from Pat Reynolds, Tony, Brennan, Frank Foley and Eamonn O'Brien.

And lets not think ability and availability mean the sum total of anything. lets not forget Eamonn O'Brien was sacked after an all ireland semi final and Leinster title. He was backed by his squad and look what happened."
Mcgill may have played under odowd for a game or 2, I can't remember, but he certainly established himself under mcentee. He picked lavin and Gallagher out of the blue and as a trio they became our best full back line in a long-time. Maybe the lads that have came through in the last 2 years would have anyway, but he brought them in early and within a year are now key starters. How you are putting that in the negative column is beyond me and proves your arguments against mcentee are probably agenda driven. I know a member of the background team well, and they do have a voice in there and there is alot of heated debates, some of which mcentee does concede on. Not much of what you say is based on fact at all really....bar the goalkeeper and free taker situation which I agree with you on, but I feel after absolutely everything is weighed up, he should get another 2 years, with a qualified successor lined up very early within that time frame.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 22/07/2021 15:53:29    2362896

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On the change manager debate. I was delighted when Mc Entee took over we make slow progress. and got promoted. But we have gone back since then IMO. The league games against Westmeath was average, some poor stuff in it but a win is win. Down game we dominated good win we cwon convincingly not much to say good job all round. Mayo game was mess which lead the foundation for even bigger mess v Kildare (this game has to be up there with the worst games for Meath I ever seen. Fought back a bit towards the end to there credit, but overall.A very hard watch in such an important match Div 1 at stake. To play so bad, in what was in honesty was always going to the biggest game of the year was disappointing.
The Dublin game was a breath of fresh air. Starting Wallaces worked a treat. We effectively lost the game in the first half but we all took great heart the way we put in up the Dubs in the second half.
But one decent performance in against Dublin do-sent paper over the cracks for me. I think Mc Entee done a good job overall job but I would like to see some one else come in a take the young blood to the next level who that is I have no clue.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 22/07/2021 17:07:05    2362922

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Never have been a fan of current management and nothing I saw on Sunday changes my opinion. Meath emerged in the second half and took the game to Dublin for about twenty five minutes, but ran out of gas in last ten minutes. Was this a tatical masterstroke by management at half time? or more lightly a player led attitude of lets give it go and see what happens, First half was another missmatch with all our long standing flaws there for all to see.
Unfortunately the 25min display on Sunday will be use by many to tell us how far we have come in last five years, what a great result only got beaten by six points, pat on the backs all round. While ignoring the everything that has went before. Not only in Andy Mac the wrong man to lead us forward, the more I see, the more I am sure he was never the right man for the job. Five years of excuses, sideline tantrums and inability to address a long list of issues cannot be covered up by a decent second half against Dublin.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 22/07/2021 19:01:09    2362951

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Replying To meath1977:  "I think for the benefit of Meath football this forum on meath should be stood down until jan .. too many negative and unhelpful comments .. God I would have loved if we had won .. but unfortunately we fell a little bit short .. but by god I am proud of that team and so looking forward to January."
For the benefit of Meath football? No criticism of a management team who have had five years to address a long list of faults, it has a best been one step forward and two back. Our problems stem from a hands off approach with no pressure on management to account for displays in previous Leinster Finals, super 8s and Division one. We have seen quite enough of forum police on here over last number of weeks, we have very different views on what is best for Meath football, however that is what the forum is all about.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 22/07/2021 19:12:25    2362954

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Replying To seadog54:  "For the benefit of Meath football? No criticism of a management team who have had five years to address a long list of faults, it has a best been one step forward and two back. Our problems stem from a hands off approach with no pressure on management to account for displays in previous Leinster Finals, super 8s and Division one. We have seen quite enough of forum police on here over last number of weeks, we have very different views on what is best for Meath football, however that is what the forum is all about."
Have to agree with you. One good second half doesn't make up for a long list of issues that have not been addressed. I think McEntee is very fortunate there is a) no other obvious standout candidates within the county and (b) that interest in the county team is at an all time low and so seems to be little pressure on him due to general apathy.

Regarding last Sunday, first half performances are management led, second halves are generally player led.

Btw anyone know why Michael Newman wasn't brought on? Our best forward left on the bench while we chase the match. Apparently he was flying fit too. Extraordinary.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/07/2021 20:27:06    2362978

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Replying To nobull456:  "I firmly believe the CB should have a thorough stock take of itself to begin with. Some questions i would pose .DO they really accept that ultimately they are in charge of the future of Meath football ?.As far as i am concerned they are or should be in charge .Therefore there are questions arising... Are they fully tuned in to the requirements of the ROLE of manager?If they say they are then what plans are in place to update and move with modern developments for that role. How will they select a candidate ? TO me attitude goes a long way Attitude meaning the willingness to learn and work with other people. Look at DUBLIN ,you can read the attitude .listen to any of their players ..its all about the team ,its all about continuous improvement . Gilroy startd a culture to be fair to him ,then Gavin proved attitude is what its all about. Look at how he behaved on the side line EVERY time as an example. We have to have the same culture of stock taking and planning for improvements .If not we will go nowhere.
Yes for a large part of the second half against Dublin that old Meath never say die was evident and full credit to all
To bottle that what and how is a keypoint in planning development. Was that a 1 off or was it a conscious decision? Again all about learning .How do we learn from the good as well as the bad ? Any serious stock taking will just include this positive second half as a learning point . No doubt it is not the full picture when considered in the big picture of happenings in the last 2 years.. In a nutshell the CB has to be fully proactive from here , and a lot less passive it seems. Take charge now FIT THE MAN TO THE ROLE OF MANAGER, of couse that person has to accept development as reqd. Noboby is made to measure exactly, but the corner posts must be in his DNA. 1 Willingness to learn and promote learning all around him. 2. strong interpersonal skills always showing respect to others .3. Ruthless when necessary but always motivated by welfare of the team and agreed objectives. 4. willing to take constructive suggestions from fellow management team members
Really an ideal time for real building But the foundation stone is attitude. Accepting that attitude is how you behave because you believe its the correct thing to do at the time. Behaviour is what you do because someone said so! An once of attitude change is worth a ton of behaviour change Attitude change maybe slower we know . It took Dublin years but there is no quick fix!"
There's more talk about cattle and goings on at the mart than there is strategising the future for football or hurling at these meetings. It's easy to throw around the phase " a clean out is needed" but yes a clearout is badly needed with young energetic minds and ideas.

edd (Meath) - Posts: 48 - 22/07/2021 20:32:17    2362981

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Have to agree with you. One good second half doesn't make up for a long list of issues that have not been addressed. I think McEntee is very fortunate there is a) no other obvious standout candidates within the county and (b) that interest in the county team is at an all time low and so seems to be little pressure on him due to general apathy.

Regarding last Sunday, first half performances are management led, second halves are generally player led.

Btw anyone know why Michael Newman wasn't brought on? Our best forward left on the bench while we chase the match. Apparently he was flying fit too. Extraordinary."
"First half performances are management led... 2nd half are generally player led"

Oh my god thats the best one yet!!!

So Andy is responsible for the poor first half but not responsible for the excellent 2nd half.

Your clear agenda against the man becomes clearer with every comment you post!

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 22/07/2021 21:24:02    2362999

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Replying To seadog54:  "For the benefit of Meath football? No criticism of a management team who have had five years to address a long list of faults, it has a best been one step forward and two back. Our problems stem from a hands off approach with no pressure on management to account for displays in previous Leinster Finals, super 8s and Division one. We have seen quite enough of forum police on here over last number of weeks, we have very different views on what is best for Meath football, however that is what the forum is all about."
where meath was before this management team took over was a hold different place then now .. ye few on this thats constantly given out needs to think back to . West meath in 2015 and derry the same year

meath1977 (Meath) - Posts: 534 - 22/07/2021 21:53:21    2363012

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Have to agree with you. One good second half doesn't make up for a long list of issues that have not been addressed. I think McEntee is very fortunate there is a) no other obvious standout candidates within the county and (b) that interest in the county team is at an all time low and so seems to be little pressure on him due to general apathy.

Regarding last Sunday, first half performances are management led, second halves are generally player led.

Btw anyone know why Michael Newman wasn't brought on? Our best forward left on the bench while we chase the match. Apparently he was flying fit too. Extraordinary."
Surprised newman didn't come on myself but he's far from being our best player.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 681 - 22/07/2021 22:15:59    2363016

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Replying To Blackspot09:  ""First half performances are management led... 2nd half are generally player led"

Oh my god thats the best one yet!!!

So Andy is responsible for the poor first half but not responsible for the excellent 2nd half.

Your clear agenda against the man becomes clearer with every comment you post!"
That's as stupid a statement on this forum as we've seen from Crinigan. Blame the first half on Andy and give the second half credit to the players. Having his cake and eating it too with the Andy criticism. If the second half was player led then it was a group of players really playing for their manager and playing for him to keep his job because that's the reality of the situation

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 22/07/2021 23:06:27    2363031

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Replying To meath1977:  "where meath was before this management team took over was a hold different place then now .. ye few on this thats constantly given out needs to think back to . West meath in 2015 and derry the same year"
No you have to remember those great first half's were all MOD was responsible for, he headed off home at half time and it became the player's responsibility then when they collapsed in the second half

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 22/07/2021 23:12:23    2363032

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Replying To meath1977:  "where meath was before this management team took over was a hold different place then now .. ye few on this thats constantly given out needs to think back to . West meath in 2015 and derry the same year"
Fair enough, however we should also think back to Longford, Leinster final humiliations, super 8s and dismal Div one, before declaring Andy our great saviour.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 23/07/2021 09:03:59    2363059

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Replying To edd:  "There's more talk about cattle and goings on at the mart than there is strategising the future for football or hurling at these meetings. It's easy to throw around the phase " a clean out is needed" but yes a clearout is badly needed with young energetic minds and ideas."
I suspect you may be right. There is the root of the problem. Your last sentence covers it "energetic " Very hard to see anything changing in any real way so. No surprise then that support has dropped off so significantly. Sad, but inevitable!

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 23/07/2021 09:18:04    2363062

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Replying To meath1977:  "where meath was before this management team took over was a hold different place then now .. ye few on this thats constantly given out needs to think back to . West meath in 2015 and derry the same year"
On that point when Dowd managed the team admittedly we had some bad days against Westmeath and throwing away a lead v Cavan. and leads against other teams. But in contrast got a right humiliating roasting against Kildare in Tullamore 2017. And now recently against Kildare again a few weeks a terrible performance. But back then when Dowd was managing I dont remember anyone saying to shut down the form because people disagreed with him. There was some terrible personal attacks on the man.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 23/07/2021 09:50:32    2363074

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Replying To meath1977:  "where meath was before this management team took over was a hold different place then now .. ye few on this thats constantly given out needs to think back to . West meath in 2015 and derry the same year"
i think if you look at it Meath are in the exact same place as they were when Andy took over.

The only measurable we can say between the team now and the team today is that the team is fitter.

Saying we've a better pool of players is true i don't debate that, but thats based of multiple high quality minor teams coming through in the later half of this decade. Mick O'Dowd can't be blamed for a lack of players coming through no more than Andy can't be credited for better players becoming available to him off the back of those successful minor teams.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 23/07/2021 10:39:02    2363096

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Mcgill may have played under odowd for a game or 2, I can't remember, but he certainly established himself under mcentee. He picked lavin and Gallagher out of the blue and as a trio they became our best full back line in a long-time. Maybe the lads that have came through in the last 2 years would have anyway, but he brought them in early and within a year are now key starters. How you are putting that in the negative column is beyond me and proves your arguments against mcentee are probably agenda driven. I know a member of the background team well, and they do have a voice in there and there is alot of heated debates, some of which mcentee does concede on. Not much of what you say is based on fact at all really....bar the goalkeeper and free taker situation which I agree with you on, but I feel after absolutely everything is weighed up, he should get another 2 years, with a qualified successor lined up very early within that time frame."
Come on South... the same Lavin and Gallagher that were on the 2012 minor all ireland team

MEATH: Robert Burlingham; Ruairí O Coileáin, Brian Power, Shane Gallagher; Declan Smyth, Pádraic Harnan (c), Seamus Lavin; Shane McEntee, Adam Flanagan; Cillian O'Sullivan, Jason Daly, James McEntee; Barry Dardis, Fiachra Ward, Stephan Coogan. SUBS: Patrick Kennelly for Barry Dardis, Harry Rooney for Stephen Coogan, Conor Carton for Declan Smyth, Conor O'Brien for Jason Daly

He hardly picked them out of the blue. Both lads were very strong minor footballers. Has Andy discovered a Brian Stafford or a Peader Byrne? Someone from an unfashionable club? I don't think so.

Saying he brought lads through a year earlier is some kind of measuring stick, he's relying on lads of 20 years old to be key starters, those lads need to be dripped into the team. Look at Dublin, lads don't start until they're 23/24 if not later when they've proven they can do for a couple of years.

Everyone has an agenda according to you. I've repeatedly said i want us to be better and know Andy McEntee will be in charge next season. Is wanting us to be better such a sin. Is highlighting the failings that need to be improved not how you go about improving the team. Is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results not the definition of lunacy.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 23/07/2021 10:51:35    2363102

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "That's as stupid a statement on this forum as we've seen from Crinigan. Blame the first half on Andy and give the second half credit to the players. Having his cake and eating it too with the Andy criticism. If the second half was player led then it was a group of players really playing for their manager and playing for him to keep his job because that's the reality of the situation"
No, think team played for their pride, if as you say they were playing for to keep hlm in job, then by that reasoning the first half display suggests they wanted him gone. Cherry picking to suit your theory. Andy was quick enough to lay the first half display on the players.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 23/07/2021 10:57:20    2363103

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "Surprised newman didn't come on myself but he's far from being our best player."
Hes better man at that stage of the game to have brought on.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 23/07/2021 11:02:53    2363105

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