Meath Forum

Meath Vs Kildare Promotion Playoff

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Full time synopsis.

Game was poor: error strewn from the start. Kildare are a team who suit a smaller pitch. They are physical and athletic in the middle of the park. Meath haven't been a team like that in maybe 10 years. A lot of water under the bridge in this game, the teams dont seem to like each other in any way, a lot of yellow and red cards and a lot of niggle. Not a bad thing to see in all honesty given the way the game at large has gone. It was nice to see hitting, and dare I say emotions from modern players.

Meath only started to play when they were too far back to win, and with too many lads on the pitch who didnt have the quality to get the scores back. We showed determination and heart and dog in the last ten minutes but it was way too late. Well done to Kildare and all the best on their year in division one.

I re-iterate what I said earlier on and in times past before lads, when Meath are bottled up between the tram-lines, and frustrated in offence, and effectively sledged by any team of substance, they are goosed. They are a one trick pony. We find it very hard to score and very hard to win primary possession. We dont have reliable free takers, we dont have a single top-class forward and we have a poor goalkeeper and kickout strategy. We have a lot of lads who will spill possession, fall over in the tackle and get turned over, and run into cul-de-sacs and who will wing their possession, often to no avail. We also have a lot of unforced errors from re-starts such as free kicks and sidelines, and we kick too many wides to possibly justify being in division one as anything other than visitors. Our limitations are just too many. As early as when Menton went off I kinda was resigned to the loss and that was surely 20/25 minutes in simply from the fact that he is a primary ball winner. We have a very agile, fit and conditioned panel of workers, triers and gunterers and a few players above average but thats about it. They're absolutely at the level where its acceptable for a county of our size and they're showing great spirit under this coaching ticket which is reminiscent of Meath of the past. They are deserving of that credit. This (division 2) is our level and there is no hassle or shame in accepting that right now staying in division 2 is what is best for us. 1-14 to 0-14 is a very good scoreboard considering how shambolic the performance was. Kildare could have put them through the mill and should have only they lost the head and almost managed to blow the game at the death.

A tight win over Westmeath, a good win over Down, a dodgy approach followed by a bad loss to Mayo and a 3 point loss in a carnival tent to Kildare. We move on.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 13/06/2021 16:14:22    2350241

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Forwards afraid to shoot. Passing the ball to teams mates who are surrounded. Defenders way too far off their players. Some players looked out on their feet after 20 minutes. No kick out strategy (we haven't had one in Andy's term as manager). It's hard to see where we are going at the minute. What's the game plan?

Diego (Meath) - Posts: 1205 - 13/06/2021 16:18:34    2350244

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Due to my young son having a mini medical emergency (he's ok thankfully) I didn't see second half.
I said at beginning of year if we didn't get promoted it was time for a fresh outlook from the sidelines, I've given my support to Andy throughout this , but now (end of championship) is time for a new vision for Meath. Andy has brought us as far as he can, I thank him wholeheartedly for his efforts and those of the back room team, and I wish them all well for the future. The Leinster is meaningless as we all know the outcome, even the all ire is meaningless (but that's a different story). It's now time for cb (in the background obviously) to prepare for the new management team.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/06/2021 16:23:25    2350249

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Have we seen with this game the end of the road for this version of Meath? I was worried at the start we would lose the first half badly and wind up with a mountain to climb. And so it turned out to be. Very poor from 1-15. Jordan Morris the only player showing any kind of class today

cabbage (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 13/06/2021 16:35:07    2350260

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Replying To Royalio11:  "Shambolic.

Began to play when 9 points down.

Same old story. Wiped out in midfield. Forwards afraid to score. Running down blind alleys. Defence at sea.

Meath appeared to be oblivious to what was at stake today."
Agreed ! Progress? What progress? some" established" players are clearly gone past their sell by date .However, whilst players have to take responsibility for improving their basic skills also. I lay the blame firmly with poor coaching as a team, Same old basic shortcomings clearly not worked on in training sessions.. Therefore clearly management team have gone past their sell by date also. I expect that whilst that is not what we had hoped for,
i imagine we could be left with no option when they realise they have given it their best shot ,and fall well short of what's required now for DIV 1 football

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 13/06/2021 16:39:30    2350266

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Does anyone have actual facts / stats n figures.....are we the smallest lightest team in division 1 or two. Just can't seem to win our own ball unless it's on a plate

Royalcommando (Meath) - Posts: 3 - 13/06/2021 16:41:23    2350268

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Full time synopsis.

Game was poor: error strewn from the start. Kildare are a team who suit a smaller pitch. They are physical and athletic in the middle of the park. Meath haven't been a team like that in maybe 10 years. A lot of water under the bridge in this game, the teams dont seem to like each other in any way, a lot of yellow and red cards and a lot of niggle. Not a bad thing to see in all honesty given the way the game at large has gone. It was nice to see hitting, and dare I say emotions from modern players.

Meath only started to play when they were too far back to win, and with too many lads on the pitch who didnt have the quality to get the scores back. We showed determination and heart and dog in the last ten minutes but it was way too late. Well done to Kildare and all the best on their year in division one.

I re-iterate what I said earlier on and in times past before lads, when Meath are bottled up between the tram-lines, and frustrated in offence, and effectively sledged by any team of substance, they are goosed. They are a one trick pony. We find it very hard to score and very hard to win primary possession. We dont have reliable free takers, we dont have a single top-class forward and we have a poor goalkeeper and kickout strategy. We have a lot of lads who will spill possession, fall over in the tackle and get turned over, and run into cul-de-sacs and who will wing their possession, often to no avail. We also have a lot of unforced errors from re-starts such as free kicks and sidelines, and we kick too many wides to possibly justify being in division one as anything other than visitors. Our limitations are just too many. As early as when Menton went off I kinda was resigned to the loss and that was surely 20/25 minutes in simply from the fact that he is a primary ball winner. We have a very agile, fit and conditioned panel of workers, triers and gunterers and a few players above average but thats about it. They're absolutely at the level where its acceptable for a county of our size and they're showing great spirit under this coaching ticket which is reminiscent of Meath of the past. They are deserving of that credit. This (division 2) is our level and there is no hassle or shame in accepting that right now staying in division 2 is what is best for us. 1-14 to 0-14 is a very good scoreboard considering how shambolic the performance was. Kildare could have put them through the mill and should have only they lost the head and almost managed to blow the game at the death.

A tight win over Westmeath, a good win over Down, a dodgy approach followed by a bad loss to Mayo and a 3 point loss in a carnival tent to Kildare. We move on."
The question is… all these shortcomings , players going nowhere with the ball, being turned over etc , does a good coaching team coach this stuff out of players? Why are the Dublin lads for example so good with the ball? Are they just way way better players or does the coaching and system they are employed in ensure that they almost always have a direction to go in and a player to pass to as part of a well oiled system adaptable to different size pitches and match scenarios??

This is the big question here. I think it's coaching. As I've said before, 5 years of training 4/5 times a week, name one player who has really improved in this Meath team? Might be fitter but are any actually better footballers? What would Dublin do with Cillian O Sullivan for eg? (I guarantee you they'd have him as a corner back btw) You can say this about many county teams outside of Mayo, Donegal , Dublin and Kerry and I think that's a shocking indictment of modern day inter county management.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1318 - 13/06/2021 16:42:47    2350270

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Replying To Crinigan:  "I've written enough about Andy McEntee and his back room team and no point in showing further disrespect to a decent man.

Time for fresh approach.

I'd be happy with Bernard Flynn (serious back room team he has and he picked an u21 squad after a genuine talent search without any bias to big clubs or players already on development panels) or Colm o Rourke (proven to be a good manager).

Dream outside manager would be Jim McGuinness (I'd say he'd be interested, is big fan of Meath football)."
Now there is an idea Colm O Rourke . He is now not too far from his retirement in his day job anyway. Has all the skills ( if he can just remember that not all players are gifted like he was as a player) As he said himself about Sean Boylan " if he stays around long enough he can make it to be a manager ". He has written some articles on sport and its value educationally in the broader sense. He would not be a yes man for the CB either. That would be another plus .Fresh informed approach ! Now that would be nice.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 13/06/2021 16:58:27    2350279

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Ok fans and foes. I will be taking a break from hoganstand for the foreseeable, on the main forum I posted similar as I did here that I missed second half after having to rush to a and e in Mullingar general hospital with my son. I have spoken at various times about my son been born very premature and with lots of medical problems, I even met the dubs and Sam in crumlin after one of their wins. He has a extremely rare blood condition and began to bleed heavily from his nose for no reason. Anyway I just said I was in hospital and had missed a few things in match.
I got a response basically calling me a liar from a bitter nordie (Tyrone to be exact) That level of hatred is not what I ever joined this site for circa 2000, and to disrespect my ill son is the final straw that such a post was allowed, we may have disagreed passionately about things but I hope there is such a thing as common decency among Meath supporters.
I know longer want to be part of a site that would permit such a comment about my son.
He's fine btw and sitting on my lap as I write this.
Good luck to you all and live ur best life.
And as alway.
HON THE ROYAL

GOOD BYE

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/06/2021 18:53:38    2350380

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Ok fans and foes. I will be taking a break from hoganstand for the foreseeable, on the main forum I posted similar as I did here that I missed second half after having to rush to a and e in Mullingar general hospital with my son. I have spoken at various times about my son been born very premature and with lots of medical problems, I even met the dubs and Sam in crumlin after one of their wins. He has a extremely rare blood condition and began to bleed heavily from his nose for no reason. Anyway I just said I was in hospital and had missed a few things in match.
I got a response basically calling me a liar from a bitter nordie (Tyrone to be exact) That level of hatred is not what I ever joined this site for circa 2000, and to disrespect my ill son is the final straw that such a post was allowed, we may have disagreed passionately about things but I hope there is such a thing as common decency among Meath supporters.
I know longer want to be part of a site that would permit such a comment about my son.
He's fine btw and sitting on my lap as I write this.
Good luck to you all and live ur best life.
And as alway.
HON THE ROYAL

GOOD BYE

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/06/2021 18:54:55    2350381

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Replying To Crinigan:  "The question is… all these shortcomings , players going nowhere with the ball, being turned over etc , does a good coaching team coach this stuff out of players? Why are the Dublin lads for example so good with the ball? Are they just way way better players or does the coaching and system they are employed in ensure that they almost always have a direction to go in and a player to pass to as part of a well oiled system adaptable to different size pitches and match scenarios??

This is the big question here. I think it's coaching. As I've said before, 5 years of training 4/5 times a week, name one player who has really improved in this Meath team? Might be fitter but are any actually better footballers? What would Dublin do with Cillian O Sullivan for eg? (I guarantee you they'd have him as a corner back btw) You can say this about many county teams outside of Mayo, Donegal , Dublin and Kerry and I think that's a shocking indictment of modern day inter county management."
That is the million dollar question, and ill answer you in two different ways.

I honestly believe that Andy and his lieutenants are very capable, I really do. Now Im also realistic in the numerous areas we haven't progressed in years but I maintain that when weighed off, I think the work done since 2018 has been very progressive. We're better off now than we were before he took the job. Look at the knock-on effect at underage level too. There is moving and shaking within Meath that there wasn't for a very long time. The implications of Flynn etc at U20 remains to be seen but the fact is that there is now real work going in to change things. I dont want to insult people by bringing up old talking points about the management again.

When I look at the Meath team of last year and this year I see a team that has simply found its level. We are a Division 2 team. I dont think its fair to still harp on about division one. We're miles off that standard. Its as simple as that. We got there and gave it a good stab but fell very far short and if we got there again the results would be no different. Ive never shyed away from saying down through the years that this Meath team will struggle immensely against certain types of opposition, even if those teams are division 3 or 4 and technically not very good - Meath will still struggle against them. The reasons are because Andy inherited a lengthy squad of players who were slight, quick, pacy, fleet-footed and small in stature. In the early days they were notoriously low on confidence also. He also inherited and duly increased a list of players who opt out or show no interest. He has what he has. He cannot work miracles with an average squad which is propped up by lads rushed onto the team from minor squads. Notably a lot of these guys are also very nice blokes which further weakens them as a collective (if you know where Im coming from). He has a team which will suffer against physical teams who are well polished and fit and can rush between the 40s, and have a bit of dirt in them too. Thats reality. Offaly wiped the floor with them two years ago, but couldnt score. Sligo should have won a qualifier a few years back. Westmeath a few weeks ago. Longford in Pearse Park. There is a trend here. When we play the right oppostion we can look a very tidy team, but playing the wrong oppostion we look very poor. Its not a fair reflection on our players to say either position, but its a bit of both.

Im slowly coming to the belief thay Andy may have brought these boys as far as they can possibly go. I believe under diffferent circumstances that he could deliver more. For that reason Im still giving him my support as I dont think any more could necessarily be delivered. Unless we get a hail mary appointment like J mcGuinness etc. Although after that match id be going back to the drawing board and looking at fresh selection and looking at changing our panel up. Something has to give. We've been looking at these collapses incrementally for too long.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 13/06/2021 19:16:37    2350398

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Full time synopsis.

Game was poor: error strewn from the start. Kildare are a team who suit a smaller pitch. They are physical and athletic in the middle of the park. Meath haven't been a team like that in maybe 10 years. A lot of water under the bridge in this game, the teams dont seem to like each other in any way, a lot of yellow and red cards and a lot of niggle. Not a bad thing to see in all honesty given the way the game at large has gone. It was nice to see hitting, and dare I say emotions from modern players.

Meath only started to play when they were too far back to win, and with too many lads on the pitch who didnt have the quality to get the scores back. We showed determination and heart and dog in the last ten minutes but it was way too late. Well done to Kildare and all the best on their year in division one.

I re-iterate what I said earlier on and in times past before lads, when Meath are bottled up between the tram-lines, and frustrated in offence, and effectively sledged by any team of substance, they are goosed. They are a one trick pony. We find it very hard to score and very hard to win primary possession. We dont have reliable free takers, we dont have a single top-class forward and we have a poor goalkeeper and kickout strategy. We have a lot of lads who will spill possession, fall over in the tackle and get turned over, and run into cul-de-sacs and who will wing their possession, often to no avail. We also have a lot of unforced errors from re-starts such as free kicks and sidelines, and we kick too many wides to possibly justify being in division one as anything other than visitors. Our limitations are just too many. As early as when Menton went off I kinda was resigned to the loss and that was surely 20/25 minutes in simply from the fact that he is a primary ball winner. We have a very agile, fit and conditioned panel of workers, triers and gunterers and a few players above average but thats about it. They're absolutely at the level where its acceptable for a county of our size and they're showing great spirit under this coaching ticket which is reminiscent of Meath of the past. They are deserving of that credit. This (division 2) is our level and there is no hassle or shame in accepting that right now staying in division 2 is what is best for us. 1-14 to 0-14 is a very good scoreboard considering how shambolic the performance was. Kildare could have put them through the mill and should have only they lost the head and almost managed to blow the game at the death.

A tight win over Westmeath, a good win over Down, a dodgy approach followed by a bad loss to Mayo and a 3 point loss in a carnival tent to Kildare. We move on."
Kildare couldn't put us through the mill because overall they are no better than ourselves and time will show that, for all their play and performance, at one point leading by 10, it took a save from the Kildare goalie at the end to prevent extra time, We done an awful lot ourselves to make Kildare look good and made a lot of basic errors, lost simple possession and missed a lot of our own chances, Kildare can rightly celebrate promotion but need not think they are in any better a position overall than we are. I don't we should ever believe that Division 2 is our place, we would have learnt more in one season in Division 1 last year than we learnt this year or any other year we have been in this division, we will not improve in this division simple as. I agree we are very fit and our agility has improved and we do show spirit but the thing is before that spirit used to win us games, now it seems to only bring credibility and to hell with credibility. A few weeks ago I was annoyed that we didn't put out our strongest team against Mayo and go for the game, some agreed with me and some disagreed, but it was the first time I was really annoyed with management, we need a win against a team like Mayo but we handed that away before the ball was thrown in with the team selection, and I would strongly question one or two of the starting choices today considering what was available on the bench, there have been decisions made that I don't think are good enough in recent weeks and those decisions have been detrimental to the team, when that happens questions must be asked.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 13/06/2021 19:27:39    2350401

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With the prospects of the league returning to normal next year I cant see us getting out of division 2 until we bring in a manager/backroom team that will put together a 4 year plan that will incorporate a return to division one ( staying in it ) and making the super 8s. We may for get about a leinster for now but with possible changes coming to eliminate the Provisionals it could all end up in the Air.

John Maughan is in his 3rd season in Offaly and he has achieved two promotions. Was chatting a few of my neighbours across the border and they tell me has brought a whole new professional approach to the setup that did not come cheap. He is not expensive ,however the demands and new protocols come at a price but in fairness they have delivered.

I think its time to look outside the box here and see what's available.

I believe we should seriously look at approaching the likes of Jim Gavin, Jim McGuinness, David Power.

I believe we have huge talent in the county, Andy Mc has done a great job in stabilizing the county however I think its time to try move to the next level.

thelutch (Meath) - Posts: 1047 - 13/06/2021 19:48:10    2350420

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Due to my young son having a mini medical emergency (he's ok thankfully) I didn't see second half.
I said at beginning of year if we didn't get promoted it was time for a fresh outlook from the sidelines, I've given my support to Andy throughout this , but now (end of championship) is time for a new vision for Meath. Andy has brought us as far as he can, I thank him wholeheartedly for his efforts and those of the back room team, and I wish them all well for the future. The Leinster is meaningless as we all know the outcome, even the all ire is meaningless (but that's a different story). It's now time for cb (in the background obviously) to prepare for the new management team."
You are an excellent supporter in good and not so good times, you should pay no attention to keyboard posters such as the idiot you refer to. I wish your son a speedy recovery and wish all your family good health as those are the more important things in life.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 13/06/2021 19:50:48    2350423

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Ok fans and foes. I will be taking a break from hoganstand for the foreseeable, on the main forum I posted similar as I did here that I missed second half after having to rush to a and e in Mullingar general hospital with my son. I have spoken at various times about my son been born very premature and with lots of medical problems, I even met the dubs and Sam in crumlin after one of their wins. He has a extremely rare blood condition and began to bleed heavily from his nose for no reason. Anyway I just said I was in hospital and had missed a few things in match.
I got a response basically calling me a liar from a bitter nordie (Tyrone to be exact) That level of hatred is not what I ever joined this site for circa 2000, and to disrespect my ill son is the final straw that such a post was allowed, we may have disagreed passionately about things but I hope there is such a thing as common decency among Meath supporters.
I know longer want to be part of a site that would permit such a comment about my son.
He's fine btw and sitting on my lap as I write this.
Good luck to you all and live ur best life.
And as alway.
HON THE ROYAL

GOOD BYE"
Would not take too much notice of what is posted on main forum, many there are more concerned about knocking other counties and seem oblivious to the failings of their own team. Glad to hear lad is in good form.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2142 - 13/06/2021 19:52:24    2350425

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Replying To browncows:  "You are an excellent supporter in good and not so good times, you should pay no attention to keyboard posters such as the idiot you refer to. I wish your son a speedy recovery and wish all your family good health as those are the more important things in life."
Classy post Browncows.i'd also like to wish your son (Royaldunne)a speedy recovery and best wishes.Dont let some idot stop you from posting your opinions.I might not agree with them all but your love and passion for Meath is second to none.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 256 - 13/06/2021 20:25:29    2350456

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Replying To thelutch:  "With the prospects of the league returning to normal next year I cant see us getting out of division 2 until we bring in a manager/backroom team that will put together a 4 year plan that will incorporate a return to division one ( staying in it ) and making the super 8s. We may for get about a leinster for now but with possible changes coming to eliminate the Provisionals it could all end up in the Air.

John Maughan is in his 3rd season in Offaly and he has achieved two promotions. Was chatting a few of my neighbours across the border and they tell me has brought a whole new professional approach to the setup that did not come cheap. He is not expensive ,however the demands and new protocols come at a price but in fairness they have delivered.

I think its time to look outside the box here and see what's available.

I believe we should seriously look at approaching the likes of Jim Gavin, Jim McGuinness, David Power.

I believe we have huge talent in the county, Andy Mc has done a great job in stabilizing the county however I think its time to try move to the next level."
I think that the professional approach from Maughan is great for progressing counties in the lower divisions. Enda McGinley did it for Antrim, Mickey Harte in Louth, Rory Gallagher did it for Derry, Terry Hyland for first Cavan, and then Leitrim. It has a ceiling though. Even Andy with us, Cian O'Neill with Kildare, and now Jack O'Connor. McStay and Cunningham with Roscommon. Keeping them up there is the challenge and requires far more than just being professional in your approach

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1458 - 13/06/2021 20:30:31    2350463

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A very deflating performance, really flat, second to every ball. Outworked and outfought which for all their faults I rarely say about this team but no complaints and the scoreline flattered us. Without a backdoor, the championship is really of little value to us. Injuries to Keoghan and Menton will hurt our prospects. Albeit Keoghan hasn't been really as good consistently over the past 2 years as he was in 2019 and prior years, starting to wonder has he hit a different point in his career. Andy's future no looks in doubt. I don't think any internal candidate could do better with the level of talent that there is in Meath at the minute unless Nash and/or McBride come back and look like the players they were before they left and there's a big progression from young talents like Mitchell, Morris, and Walsh. If there was a miracle appointment of a Jim McGuinness or Stephen Rochford then maybe but I still see us miles behind the top 5 teams in the country. It does feel like our progress is plateauing though so maybe a fresh start is needed. It was a really deflating performance though where nothing seemed to go right. Hopefully the minors (2020 and 2021) and 20's can give us some good days this summer because the Leinster championship is a non event

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1458 - 13/06/2021 20:39:37    2350469

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Very bad performance for 50 mins. Showed good spirit in the comeback there after. I would like people to wait to see the manner of our championship before judging whether Andy should stay or go.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 13/06/2021 20:54:14    2350488

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Replying To nobull456:  "Agreed ! Progress? What progress? some" established" players are clearly gone past their sell by date .However, whilst players have to take responsibility for improving their basic skills also. I lay the blame firmly with poor coaching as a team, Same old basic shortcomings clearly not worked on in training sessions.. Therefore clearly management team have gone past their sell by date also. I expect that whilst that is not what we had hoped for,
i imagine we could be left with no option when they realise they have given it their best shot ,and fall well short of what's required now for DIV 1 football"
Change is necessary if we are to progress, after five years it is hard to argue that Meath are in a better place. No need to go over the long list of errors that have dogged us game after game. We have given blueprint to every other team on how to set up and beat us. It was obviious that f/b line have been way of the pace and gone backwards since last promotion, yet we stuck with them and watched it happen again today without making change. Why was Newman not introduced earlier? James Mac named in panel but no sign of him, if not fit enough then should not be named. We are fit, however physically we are nowhere near required level, knocked off the ball and easily disspossed.
Will we get change? Thought there might be a few rumblings of discontent after last year but powers that be remained silent and seemed happy to keep status quo. From the start there has been a stubbornness around management, a refusal to change, always in belief they and only they know what is right for Meath football. Dont be surprise if we are back disscussing this topic next year.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2142 - 13/06/2021 20:59:31    2350492

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