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I know what you mean but lot of marks are taken chest high from a diagonal ball played in. We don't do diagonal balls though. If we don't score from an overlap off the shoulder at pace then we don't score at all. Is it any wonder we nearly score as many goals as points!
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 23/11/2020 11:49:45 2313829 Link 16 |
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Not sure has done nothing took over kildare when they where in a mess and relegated to division 3 but took them back to division 1 in less than 3 years which is a decent achievement considering how long it took meath to get to division 1
Meath4Sam2020 (Meath) - Posts: 141 - 23/11/2020 12:03:54 2313843 Link 0 |
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I am seeing people calling for outside managers. If a miracle scenario came along with Jim McGuinness then sure you jump at it and even Rochford intrigues me a bit. But I have seen calls for Malachy O'Rourke and Mickey Harte. While both have won Ulster titles in the last few years, the reason people are calling for Andy to go is that the Dubs hammered us two years in a row. So let's look at both of these managers records against Dublin in the championship in Croke Park because that's where we'd be playing them. Dublin beat Monaghan by 17 in 2014 and 10 in 2017 and I would say those Monaghan teams definitely had more talent than ours especially at the two crucial positions with a top 5 goalkeeper and top 5 free taking forward. Tyrone lost to Dublin by 12 in 2017 and by 6 in the 2018 final (Tyrone got a goal with 5 mins left). My point is that while in recent times both have great records provincially if you judge any managers on their teams' results against Dublin then it looks like they've done a terrible job. Meath have the curse of their biggest rivals now being a team on a completely different planet financially and all the rest. We have to compare ourselves against how we are playing/improving/beating other division 2 teams and non-Dublin teams until the GAA starts to address the monster they created LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 23/11/2020 12:39:02 2313873 Link 8 |
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O'Rourke applied for the job three times in the past but was turned down.
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1807 - 23/11/2020 12:46:52 2313887 Link 1 |
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I've been reflecting a lot about the squad since the disaster of last Saturday. I do think Andy deserves another year, but if it's a stagnant year or a decline then he might have to step aside. From reflecting on the players I have split it into some tiers. LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 23/11/2020 12:55:33 2313898 Link 10 |
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not a snowball chance in hell that O Rourke would take the job now, O Rourke put his hand up a number of times, but he was a lot younger and he knew it was a long term job needed. O Rourke set out what he needed in the background as part of his terms ....and that was totally rejected by those tasked with running our county organisation....o Rourke knows full well its a poison chalice as long as The County Manager is the only thing that we keep debating about changing.... lads its no different then clubs buying into spoofers...as long as a manager comes in & tells those in Navan that he will get us to Division 1 & Win a leinster title in 3 years, but he is not looking for sweeping changes behind the scenes , then we are consigned to this life of roller coaster rides with ultimate failure at the end So at least with Andy, the only fault he has was that he thought it could be done in isolation , be interesting to see does that penny drop with him for next year. Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 23/11/2020 13:22:44 2313930 Link 1 |
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That is an excellent post. I for one completely overlooked all of those stats. I agree with you that we must try not act on emotions, particularly after a bad loss. I would also agree Andy is our man, at least for another year or two at least, unless the hail mary solution of a top coach is explored by the powers that be in Meath CB, and even then we should tread very carefully. The cases of Eamon Barry and Eamon O'Brien should never happen again. In spite of his shortcomings, we've been to two Leinster finals in two years, division one, and the super 8s. Regardless of huge question marks and our huge dissapointment right now, these are acheivements. I ask all of you to ask yourself where we were before Andy took on the job, and where were we going? I also agree with you LeitrimRoyal essentially on all of those names you mentioned. We will see the vast majority of them back again but a few might not be back after the nature of the loss to Dublin , and that is a sad thing. In my own view another small handful arent quite the standard we want, at least on a starting team, and I hate to say it but more work and more development is needed in team-building at the moment. It isnt all doom and gloom when you really look at it, but work needs doing, and people need to decide if they can deliver it or if they can even commit to it. Its a tough road ahead.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 23/11/2020 13:35:17 2313943 Link 18 |
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Reading some of these posts here is more depressing then watching the match Saturday night was, lads talking about pulling meath out of leinster and into other province's, and even one poster wants us to pull out of inter county football completely, quitting isn't an option and should never be entertained and thankfully it never will, there has been a ton of work done in meath over the last five or six years underage and were starting to see allot of potentially great footballers coming through, Costello hickey Morris ect, it will take time i know meath were awful on Saturday night and looked completely shell shocked,our heads went after the first goal was conceded, but we'll learn from this both players and management now have a league campaign only two months away, our main objective in the league is to find a goalkeeper stick with him and develope a proper kicking strategy, I really dont believe we are as far away from the top teams as Saturday night made us appear to be and I feel theres a bright future ahead, also I think we should stick with mcentee see how we are by the end of 2021. Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 681 - 23/11/2020 13:44:15 2313951 Link 0 |
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picture of the game for me ….was the pandemonium when Ethan Devine was to come on, and realised he hadn't got a gumshield...and Our County Secretary had to give him hers....this ahs nothing to do with AIG & millions of euros being pumped into Dublin …..start with the simple things
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 23/11/2020 14:03:40 2313982 Link 1 |
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Looked like Scully was ready to come in at half time and stood there waiting for direction from Andy. Nothing came so game started with no changes. On Divine, he was one of the subs not warming up and was taken totally by surprise when called upon. On evidence, Hickey, Wallace and Scully should definitely have started. McMahon, Toner and Thomas Reilly shouldn't have.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 23/11/2020 14:37:33 2314020 Link 0 |
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again andy hedged his bets, and lost everyway....didn't back the long term future & promote all the youngsters , and stuck with tried & "trusted" even though he knew they were not going well...toner & McGill ,
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 23/11/2020 14:56:01 2314032 Link 1 |
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cant understand how hickey didn't start, although the game was long over he really took the game on when he was brought on, Bryan Mcmahon showed no form in any game really surely that was a change worth making
redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 404 - 23/11/2020 15:11:04 2314045 Link 2 |
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COR was happy to be considered for post on more than one occassion but powers that be did not want him on board. By and large he has backed current management and owes nothing to Meath football, however,like many of us he realises current set-up is not working. Four years, all the resources they requires and still a 20+ hammering (again). Young lads brought in in last year or two not progressing and some of the more established players have gone backwards at alarming rate. Agree, we desperately need a new coach. There is no evidence to suggest this group are getting the coaching they deserve. We saw at the w/e there is no need for some elaborate game plan, teams were set up well both in attack and defence, good goalkeeper, freetaker, and lads who can field a kickout. But above all both Cavan and Tipp gave everything for the jersey. I realise they were not playing Dublin and Cavan will get some shock when they play them next. Still think they will be better prepared and will at least have a go.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 23/11/2020 15:32:43 2314065 Link 16 |
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After Kildare game he should have started ahead of at least 3/4 of the more estabilished players.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 23/11/2020 15:34:51 2314067 Link 17 |
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Correct. Along with Joey Wallace and Jason Scully. Lavin and McGill totally out of sorts since lockdown. Toner struggles at this level while Ryan has shown very little. McMahon has shown no form this year at all and offers nothing in terms of ball winning ability. Think Shane Walsh is better at 11 and why play a sweeper system without protecting full backline. The keeper issue is farcical with the management failing to respect the importance of a top class modern day goalkeeper. Freetaking also very disappointing.
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 23/11/2020 15:45:19 2314073 Link 0 |
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Seeing as you were thrashing it out lads, when had David Toner even played as a corner back, never mind an intercounty corner back for a county with aspirations? Cian Ward alluded to this last week. We are a team that has a lot of average players but who work hard and so the team becomes better than sum of its parts. I think we know who these players are but we had one in fb line, 1 in half back line, 2 in half forwards and at least 1 in full forward line. Including gk kickout issue that's at least 6 players who you would say are good solid club players but are doing very well to be playing for Meath (and all respect to them for their dedication, they are living the dream of many of us). The players who are intercounty standard for me are and were not in starting 15: -Campion (Didn't play, inexplicably! He's got huge potential,a Kerry footballer in a Meath jersey) - J Wallace (whatever it is, he just has it. Always makes something happen) - C Hickey (looks a good player) - Lenihan (why hasn't he been brought in? He's a better player than O'Reilly and he can take frees with decent enough consistency. Is he not fit? If so, why have him ther if not going to play him? - B Conlon (way better footballer than our centre back and putt sweeper last weekend. Inexplicably underused). - Harkin really like the look of him. Reminds me of Keoghan when he first came on scene, immediately just looks at home. - Scully I've not seen enough of but he looks very mobile and skillful. Now I think the 7 on the bench I've named are better than the lads who started and who I've said (didn't name names) aren't intercounty standard. Is that not weird? Like they were off the hook for their first half performance seemingly and rewarded with Leinster final appearance. I know hindsight is everything but the manager sees these lads in training and we saw what happened ... I just really hope we don't lose these players who were subs and not played because they must be annoyed - they are better than what was put out. What we can deduce is that McEntee likes players who will do whatever he asks of them as they know they are doing well to be there. I respect that approach but it has a ceiling..The trick is to get the real footballers to play for you too. Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 23/11/2020 16:36:31 2314121 Link 16 |
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Hard to argue with that. McMahon for example was just a hard working 6/10 (av rating from wearemeath) wing forward last year although he can very good on his day. Now he's the main man at 11. Campion left to rust after brilliant performances in super 8s.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 23/11/2020 16:42:20 2314126 Link 14 |
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I got laughed at when I suggested that we needed to hit a Dublin player with a shoulder in the first 5 minutes, and that's exactly what we needed. Take a yellow card in the first five by all means, but let Dublin know we're not going to be shoved around Croke Park. Touch right on all occasions, tackle like your life depends on it. The basics, get these right and we could build on something LoyalRoyal66 (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 23/11/2020 18:03:51 2314169 Link 0 |
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Another great post. Andy is a highly intelligent man, highly emotional too, but he does seem to pick out players who he thinks can be moulded and shaped into players who can fit into his systems. He isnt an individualist. He likes guys who work hard, have good engines, and can slot into the bigger picture; do their own job on the pitch and trust the guys around them to put in the work and do the same. The key thing for players on his team seems to be fitness. I thoroughly agreed with what Cian Ward was alluding to and to yourself as well; we have had a very hard-working and smart team under Andy who play a good game. They are naturally talented ballers, with above average levels of Strength and Conditioning, and they are playing a process based game. Their workrate and their ability to slot into differing positions and offer up a fast counter-attacking, off the shouler kind of game is the reason we got out of Division Two. We have lots and lots of players who are solid. Some are as you said; lucky to be there and are there to do a job. But all-in-all they are a well crafted *team* and a good team is always better than the sum of its parts. Thats why I like this squad so much. Theyre good guys. I agree completely with most of the lads you mentioned. Campion, Scully, Harkin and Hickey are for me lads who are of a high standard and can be worked upon as they age into their peak years in the mid-20s. Costello likewise; he'll be maybe 10kg heavier in 3/4 years and far more powerful. Its also easy to forget how young Walsh is, and how much he can improve. I do think the answer for some positions may lie in further experimentation down the road however. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 23/11/2020 18:26:30 2314183 Link 17 |
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Makes for very depressing reading, probably in the bin by now. It really is up to the rest of Leinster to front up and stop accepting the tripe that is trotted out by GAA. Boils down to been told," turn up and take your beatings like men, we have more important things to be worrying about".
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 23/11/2020 19:39:27 2314229 Link 17 |