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Here, here. Very well said. It was heartbreaking; and Im sure we can all agree that it honestly wasn't what we saw coming. All we can do is reflect for another while, let the water lie, and regroup and go again. Thats all there is to it. Im with you on management though; very big questions must be asked, and our players need to look at the game, and look at themselves. Losing a game is one thing, and thats a given, but the manner of defeat is another story entirely. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 24/11/2020 16:50:18 2314794 Link 18 |
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Good point by Anthony Moyles on Off the Ball this morning about the pathways between under 17 and under 20 in Meath. It's certainly our biggest failure right now and has to be addressed. And he also said the problem is worse in junior clubs which I also agree with. The divisional championship hopefully will help address this. Does anybody know how the divisional championship actually works, do they play senior clubs? LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 24/11/2020 16:50:32 2314795 Link 9 |
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I throughly agree, however we are approaching 2021 and every year these people still emerge from the woodwork, often with the same general ideas and the same romances of Meath players who are now either itinerant or retired or no longer with us. They have a remarkably simplistic view of the game and our place in it, and we're either the best or the worst team in the country depending on our last performance. They are like a chord stuck in time, a scream into the ether. This is a broken record I dont think we can change, and I think rather tragically it'll die out in the next 20/30 years. Every county has a unique set of fans and followers, lovers, haters, and begrudgers. Ours have to be up there with the best of the lot. I wouldnt change it tbh, and a lot of it is relatively harmless.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 24/11/2020 17:29:12 2314818 Link 18 |
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Serious questions need to asked of management no doubt about it. It was a complete disaster from start to finish. bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 24/11/2020 19:20:55 2314892 Link 1 |
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In hindsight I was suprised to see COS playing Saturday night, he has taken several big hit over last few weeks, especially that punch near the end against Kildare. He was helped from the pitch and looked in a bad way. Whatever your views on rugby, a player removed in this condition would not have featured six days later. seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 24/11/2020 19:21:50 2314893 Link 18 |
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Still so annoyed about last Saturday, I mean the very least you expect is a bit of fight, passion hunger etc.While I think he has done an alright job serious questions need asking.I didn't see a proper gameplan the other night never mind a plan b or c.I know the management and team put in huge effort year on year and have my total respect for that but they looked clueless the other night.I know I will hear how good Dublin are (pains me to say I know)but the lack of fight the other night was cruel.Two dublin lads (small was one I think)let losse with a swipe(kick) on a losse balls clattering meath lads with it, why didn't we do the same,standing off their men cant do that at this level.I wasnt expecting to beat them but at least let them know you ain't going to rollover.As most people pointed out our kickouts are a big problem, now I wouldn't just blame the goalie,lads outfield have to move and move at the right time but on the goalie I can't for the life of me understand if the short kick is not on why did he keep kicking torwards the best midfielder in the country Fenton surely should have kick it somewhere else.I think management has to see this and do something about it either bring a third man in for our kickouts and at least outnumber them, you dont have to always catch the ball what about breaking it or hitting Fenton a rap on the fingers so he cant catch (I know this might seem like something from years ago but it works)or tell him to kick it somewhere else.Freetaker is another area we need to sort out we missed a fair few easy frees and it sucks the life out us when we missed them.We need someone who is willing to practice them all the time and get the scoring average right up even if he doesn't offer a whole lot more if he is knocking over 8/9 frees/50 a game I'd take that.We went defensive last year v Dublin in the first half and held them to 5 points they missed a few I know, why didn't we start like that again and then say 20 mins in have a go and then defend again something like Kerry did a few years back and it very nearly worked.I think the league game was in way a hindrance we thought we could go toe to toe with them and it focused Dublin for the final.We gave them far too much space and let them walk through us at times, have to be more cute and take a foul out the field and regroup defensively.We have some very good young players coming through and Andy has done a good job considering where we were when he took over, probably deserve s a crack at division 2 which is massive for us this year we need to get back up to division one with a bit more cuteness we could have won a couple of the games this year, anyway that's my rant over I just want what's best for the royal was spoiled in the past I suppose and I not expecting all Irelands or anything like that but the lads are better than that on Saturday, if they walk off the pitch having given 100 per cent that's players and management they will always have my support win,lose or draw.Long live the royal. Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 24/11/2020 21:11:50 2314981 Link 1 |
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We have not beat a top team in years , lucky run to get into super 8s last year is highlight of andys tenure. hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 424 - 24/11/2020 21:40:49 2314997 Link 2 |
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Yeah good point, didn't think he would play but fair play he did but he wasnt himself in fairness how could you be after that hit.
Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 24/11/2020 21:41:09 2314998 Link 1 |
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No, i would say getting promoted to div 1 with ease was the highlight of his tenure, something we hadn't done in 12 or 13 years. Lads must think we have a seriously good panel, and all that's holding us back is management...... well, we don't. We have 1 exceptional player, a handful of good solid players and a load of youthful potential......this mix doesn't just go up to div 1 and take it by storm against seasoned div 1 teams with experience and alot more talent. He has made loads of mistakes, some very frustrating, but unless your gonna get a heavy hitter like mcguinness from outside the county, getting rid of him would be a mistake......there is absolutely no alternative within the county.......none.
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 25/11/2020 07:17:21 2315083 Link 19 |
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I am not sure if the GAA have a return to play protocol after head collisions like rugby. Maybe its something they need to look at. I am not sure if you seen the Cavan v Donegal but the Cavan midfielder Killian Brady I think it was took what looked like a elbow to the head. He collapsed like a stack of spuds blood flowing from his he it looked awful. He was put back on and immediately took another heafy challenge around the head area you could see him holding his head. I am not s expert, I do watch a massive amount of rugby. I doubt he would be allowed back on a rugby pitch. You cant be too careful with these head injuries especially repeated ones. They can resurface years later. bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 25/11/2020 08:44:59 2315090 Link 1 |
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We have definitely lost the hard edge that used to be our datum. When a lad was subbed on against us players would make a beeline for him and he would be shouldered 3 or 4 times before he got to where his position was. Immediately his thought process was not 100% on the game but rather on getting his shot back at them. Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 640 - 25/11/2020 10:09:43 2315097 Link 0 |
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Great post, agree with every point. Andy's shortcomings are numerous but it saddens me that so many people are calling for the chopping block... all you really have to do is rewind back 4/5 years and the differences are immense in our team and setup. 1) Andy is the first manager to properly take Meath into the modern era. The players are modern players. We are playing off the same factsheet as the other big counties; our training methods and fitness standards are top class. No more misguided adventures about the traditional elements of Meath GAA which really and truly held us back 15 years. We've caught up a lot since his taking over. 2) Getting to Division One the season after being beaten by Longford in the Leinster Championship with good results against Armagh, Kildare, Cork, Tipperary, Clare. A genuinely good acheivement. First time since the mid-00s. 3) Two Leinster finals in a row. 4) Developing a remarkably young team, and a very busy extended squad. A spread of 25/30 good footballers. Agree with the argument that we are lacking top quality but in the case of many of our youngest players, it remains to be seen how they'll develop. He's a very good teambuilder and again, his ability to mould and train lads into solid players is a big strength. 5) Bringing through talented minors straight from the u-20 grade (although this in itself shows our issues at this age grade) 6) Unless a truly top quality manager with a track record is interested in the job, we need to stick with Andy as a priority. He shouldnt be insulted in any way. In fact a bad manager would completely ruin the progress made with our current squad and potentially cause the ruination of the team. I think we all know that. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 25/11/2020 11:49:56 2315142 Link 17 |
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I think the "hard edge" is really gone out of the game now. Referees wont tolerate shape throwing anymore. If you blow on an opposition player he'll hit the deck and get his free. If you even attempt "off the ball" stuff the linesman will dart you. Any kind of planned tackle (often a shoulder that didnt hit the opposing player properly), and you'll be yellow carded or even black carded, depending on the referee. It all seems to be up to the referee's interpretation. You just can't do what you could years ago, and the public likes it this way. I've always said that the black card was a bad ruling but it looks like we are stuck with it now. On the other hand, you can harrass, annoy, badger, and make the oppostion's lives very unsteady all game. Every time a ball comes in, you can be in his pocket. You can swarm on them in and around the D. You can do a lot. Anyone who has played the game knows exactly what you CAN do. And thats the most annoying thing; Meath didnt do it at the weekend. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 25/11/2020 12:01:05 2315146 Link 17 |
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Who is the exceptional player as a matter of interest ?
Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 511 - 25/11/2020 12:12:08 2315151 Link 1 |
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Agreed does not seem to any alernative other rhan Andy at present. So we need to invest in development like Dublin did. Develop Andy to meet the job requirements present day. The manager has ultimate responsibility for all aspects of performance . Thats the role. He brought in a coach ,and that side does not appear to be working to the required standard. The manager manages the resourses at his disposal full stop . We now need leadership from County Board .Now time to take stock .Jumping from Billy to Jack over the last 10 years has been a waste of time. So the only alternative is development of existing resourses. Simply bring in the required expertise with the manager managing the resourses and the County Board Leading by monitoring and implenting action plans as required....I assume the 3 wise men idea of some years ago never got off the ground.......I wonder why?? nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 25/11/2020 13:08:13 2315188 Link 16 |
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I think first thing is we have to stop deluding ourselves that an answer or a Plan will come from the CB down...The CB are more lost for a solution than we are They have no clue what the root cause of the problem is . , Dublin have taken what we all thought we knew was the game of Gaelic Football & turned its on its head....When we talk about a more complete footballer...what do we still think that is.....I think if we are honest we think its a defender who can sally up the fleld & take a score , and a forward who will work hard without the ball... But what we are failing to grasp is the levels that Dublin have brought this simple proposition to , and their total commitment to their principles ...So....at the epicentre is Hard work....that's the easy bit,....if you don't want to work hard...good luck to you....no matter how good you think you are as a footballer.. we don't want you....because you contaminate the groups core Now ...the next level is what they define as Hard work....the starting point for this is done by yourself at home everyday and on Tuesdays /Thursdays /Saturdays in Belcamp & that is to get into an unreal shape.....Look at Paddy Small….he is Johnny Small except he happens to have 13 on his back instead of 6....physically, there is no difference., look at Kilkenny, O Callaghan , when they tackle...its like being hit by a rugby winger , so when we say that our forwards work hard & tackle...do they? or do they just run backwards & fill space...With Dublin , by the time you have worked the ball from your own 20 yard line to midfield….you have been met with a ravenous group of guys averaging probably 14 stone , over 6 ft in height, and guys who have over the course of many years now been thought to tackle viciously and this is before you face into the screen on the opposing 40 What about us… and I mean no disrespect when I mention our lads here...but O Reilly, Walsh, Morris , McMahon….all have done great conditioning work over the last few years, but all have grown up with a game where they see what they have to do when they don't have the ball is track back, get number behind the ball.....but do they understand the levels that Dublin has taken this to? ..when O Callaghan is tackling you it is on a different planet,... We are still hedging our bets that a forwards shortcomings going backwards are offset with their strengths going forward My final point. Ultimately this is where Andy failed on Saturday. he hedged his bets on the threat of goals going forward, would make up for the shortcomings of our forward 6 going back....this worked against Kildare ….but plans for Kildare or any other county , do not apply to Dublin Final , Final Point.....look at the Mayo forward line over the last few years…..they too , under Horan buy into the principle that first & foremost, you get onto the panel or team based on your work rate & your desire to sacrifice your own game for the group....only after that is established, are you recognised for the additional & unique skillsets you may bring to the table , and hence why they are the only ones trying to match Dublin on their own terms consistently over the last 10 years Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 25/11/2020 14:04:07 2315221 Link 1 |
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Let's be honest here. I'm going to make a call in this. Real leadership from county board will involve withdrawing the county from the Leinster Championship until such time as the farce the GAA created is dealt with appropriately. That's what actual real leadership would look like. I'm fully sure Kildare and Westmeath would follow suit and the other counties most likely then too. I'm taking no further interest in watching Meath men and Meath people being humiliated in front of the country by a financially doped and fully GAA backed professional Dublin team. Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 25/11/2020 14:08:34 2315224 Link 16 |
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Fine..........thats the analysis done of where things are at......no argument ! But now do we just accept thats it nothing we can do about it. ? No......that is where leadership is required. The CB are in charge overall. What does that mean if it they stand idly by when problems are identified and help is needed. If they dont take the lead then who does ? Who grasps the nettle and says enough is enough ? Do we just keep going as we are and HOPE things will get better. No chance !! nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 25/11/2020 14:36:15 2315244 Link 16 |
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I agree I think Andy has Meath in decent enough shape. Probably best shape in years. Div 1 promotion was a great achievement. player look physically stronger. There is a decent work ethic. We generally are finishing games stronger. We seem to built a decent and strong panel. When Andy first took over he quickly realized he needed a coach. So Nally came in, it was the difference in getting promoted in my opinion. We started wining them tight games that got us over the line and got us promoted. We had more direction since Nally came in. This is not to run down Mc Entee this is a positive Mc Entee seen we needed a coach got Nally and it work this worked a treat. Its good to see where things are going wrong and fix them. The only thing I a worried about is, we have progressed but I think now we have kinda plateaued or stalled. We don't seem to be learning much from playing these top teams. For instance we have played Dublin 3 times lost all 3, ( now lets be honest nobody is beating Dublin any time soon) Donegal 3 lost all 3 kerry 2 twice lost 2 Mayo 2 twice lost 2 Tyrone 2 twice lost 2 I am not so much worried about the Dublin loses as most teams have that type for record against them but Donegal Mayo Kerry etc, we can't seem to come up with a plan to beat them. Granted we ran Tyrone Dongeal and Mayo close on occasion, But ultimately failed. I think Andy should remain. Do we need to bring in a new coach ? Do we need a someone adviser like Jimmy Mc Guinness. To freshen things up to bring to the next level ? bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 25/11/2020 15:04:47 2315254 Link 0 |
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well jjazuz lads., to me us leading the charge on withdrawing from Leinster Championship is a total lack of leadership if that is all we do & dont see it as part of a package, We have no credibility to say to the GAA, give us what Dublin have, but yet we then proceed to take the resources & **** them down the drain . At the very least , the GAA if they were to consider the Leister Counties requests - should demand a Plan….if we give you this, what will you do with it ? ...and what would we do with it?
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 25/11/2020 15:09:14 2315255 Link 0 |