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Meath V Westmeath 2015

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Watched Meath v Westmeath on gaa.ie last night. Currently being shown as part of a number of classic matches. What a disaster and possibly the worst defeat in the manner it happened that has ever been for Meath. Nine points up after 50 mins and a total collapse. Forward line looked like world beaters for the most part with Graham Reilly, Bray, E. Wallace and McMahon flying. Black card on Reilly was a turning point but some bizarre substitutions didn't help. A mess up between Paddy O'Rourke and Mickey Burke on the kick out let Westmeath in for first goal. Harry Rooney playing well was subbed for Flanagan did not help either while Kevin Reilly not fit to last beyond 40 mins. Summed up Meath football in last decade.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 01/05/2020 12:36:59    2277195

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Replying To winatallcost:  "Watched Meath v Westmeath on gaa.ie last night. Currently being shown as part of a number of classic matches. What a disaster and possibly the worst defeat in the manner it happened that has ever been for Meath. Nine points up after 50 mins and a total collapse. Forward line looked like world beaters for the most part with Graham Reilly, Bray, E. Wallace and McMahon flying. Black card on Reilly was a turning point but some bizarre substitutions didn't help. A mess up between Paddy O'Rourke and Mickey Burke on the kick out let Westmeath in for first goal. Harry Rooney playing well was subbed for Flanagan did not help either while Kevin Reilly not fit to last beyond 40 mins. Summed up Meath football in last decade."
It was the story all of that year great first halfs.could b up by 6 7 points.second halfs looked dead or just not fit or just not up for it.remains a mystery.but our subs that day wernt up to changing the game.if one of the lads that were dropped sheridan bryne ward farrell queeney etc.had been there prob couple of them we would say scrapped home.
Went to derry after that exact same thing happened us.
Had lot nice footballers some still there needed bit experience with mental and physical toughness.wasnt in that team.management included.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 01/05/2020 22:02:09    2277246

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Replying To winatallcost:  "Watched Meath v Westmeath on gaa.ie last night. Currently being shown as part of a number of classic matches. What a disaster and possibly the worst defeat in the manner it happened that has ever been for Meath. Nine points up after 50 mins and a total collapse. Forward line looked like world beaters for the most part with Graham Reilly, Bray, E. Wallace and McMahon flying. Black card on Reilly was a turning point but some bizarre substitutions didn't help. A mess up between Paddy O'Rourke and Mickey Burke on the kick out let Westmeath in for first goal. Harry Rooney playing well was subbed for Flanagan did not help either while Kevin Reilly not fit to last beyond 40 mins. Summed up Meath football in last decade."
The hardest defeat of them all.
Our all time low imo.
When people asked what did biggy bring to a team, I point to this game, he was directing things all day, we were sublime for majority of that game, I was sitting among Westmeath people and as soon as graham was black carded (a decision that was overturned before the next game) it was a pure accidental fall little or know contact. Anyway I turned around to them and said, you could win this now, they said nah we too far behind, I just felt it in my bones, they looked leaderless on the field , the subs that came on didn't offer anything, I sat there numb as score after score went in, I looked at micko and he was motionless with arms folded, we had never lost to Westmeath in championship, he looked bewildered. We all felt the same. The players seemed to take it badly and if I'm honest I there was a hangover from then that I think we only overcame last year.
I will not watch the game, I honestly couldn't bring myself too.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 02/05/2020 16:20:33    2277303

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Replying To royaldunne:  "The hardest defeat of them all.
Our all time low imo.
When people asked what did biggy bring to a team, I point to this game, he was directing things all day, we were sublime for majority of that game, I was sitting among Westmeath people and as soon as graham was black carded (a decision that was overturned before the next game) it was a pure accidental fall little or know contact. Anyway I turned around to them and said, you could win this now, they said nah we too far behind, I just felt it in my bones, they looked leaderless on the field , the subs that came on didn't offer anything, I sat there numb as score after score went in, I looked at micko and he was motionless with arms folded, we had never lost to Westmeath in championship, he looked bewildered. We all felt the same. The players seemed to take it badly and if I'm honest I there was a hangover from then that I think we only overcame last year.
I will not watch the game, I honestly couldn't bring myself too."
Now biggy ran away from the ball in the derry game.when we needed a leader.you love getting dig at micko must b personal with ye.?

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 02/05/2020 18:13:41    2277309

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Now biggy ran away from the ball in the derry game.when we needed a leader.you love getting dig at micko must b personal with ye.?"
1 we wouldn't lost that game if biggy hadn't been sent off .
And Derry?? Really?? U call urself a Meath fan. Please get facts straight, the following game after the Westmeath defeat was away to TYRONE, not as you say Derry, so I don't know what game you were watching, as biggy couldn't have ran away from the ball v Derry. As....... wait for it..... we weren't playing Derry.
And 2. Where did I slag off O'Dowd?? That's right I didn't.
Rd out.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 02/05/2020 23:32:30    2277335

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It was a stunning defeat, I'd have it down as the joint worst I've seen for Meath along with Wexford in 2008, although I took that defeat much harder simply because I was younger, I couldn't believe it.

In fact it was the Wexford defeat that changed my attitude towards defeats, I decided never to get so angry/upset by a defeat again because it's not worth it and thankfully I've remained that way ever since.

So basically that's why I didn't take the Westmeath defeat as badly in 2015, it was very disappointing no question but sadly that was a Meath team which was very prone to losing leads. When Westmeath got a run at is that day it was all over, we could have been 15pts up and still would have lost, you could see the white flags rising and the heads dropping all over the park. We then went on to lose a big lead against Derry and exit the championship.

But anyway that's 5 years ago now, nothing can be done about it, just look forward to hopefully better days.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 03/05/2020 09:54:30    2277341

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Replying To Htaem:  "It was a stunning defeat, I'd have it down as the joint worst I've seen for Meath along with Wexford in 2008, although I took that defeat much harder simply because I was younger, I couldn't believe it.

In fact it was the Wexford defeat that changed my attitude towards defeats, I decided never to get so angry/upset by a defeat again because it's not worth it and thankfully I've remained that way ever since.

So basically that's why I didn't take the Westmeath defeat as badly in 2015, it was very disappointing no question but sadly that was a Meath team which was very prone to losing leads. When Westmeath got a run at is that day it was all over, we could have been 15pts up and still would have lost, you could see the white flags rising and the heads dropping all over the park. We then went on to lose a big lead against Derry and exit the championship.

But anyway that's 5 years ago now, nothing can be done about it, just look forward to hopefully better days."
Yeah have to admit those two games were hard to take both games we had big leads, remember the Wexford game three points in it near the end and Brian Farrell missed a handy free which would have steady us at the time (not having a pop at him) great servent and a fine footballer and if I remember rightly we had a good goal ruled out in the game as well, having said that have to say fair play to Wexford that day they never gave up.The westmeath game yeah for me a big turning point was biggy getting the black card, they couldn't cope with him that day one of his better days for us(should have been alot more his talent for me is unquestionable but his consistently was) again though you have to say fair play to westmeath never gave up it some thing we done alot under Sean.The next day was v tryone in omagh(opened to correction) but I think we lost by two points, close enough a couple of calls in our favor who knows we may have won but omagh is one of the toughest places to go on top form never mind the demoralizing defeat we took v westmeath.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 03/05/2020 10:59:26    2277344

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Replying To royaldunne:  "1 we wouldn't lost that game if biggy hadn't been sent off .
And Derry?? Really?? U call urself a Meath fan. Please get facts straight, the following game after the Westmeath defeat was away to TYRONE, not as you say Derry, so I don't know what game you were watching, as biggy couldn't have ran away from the ball v Derry. As....... wait for it..... we weren't playing Derry.
And 2. Where did I slag off O'Dowd?? That's right I didn't.
Rd out."
He's talking about Derry in 2016 I thought that was pretty obvious. Both things are true. Mick O'Dowd's reign as Meath manager was a complete disaster and set the Meath team back years. But Biggie also went missing in a lot of big games when we needed him

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 03/05/2020 11:05:19    2277345

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "Yeah have to admit those two games were hard to take both games we had big leads, remember the Wexford game three points in it near the end and Brian Farrell missed a handy free which would have steady us at the time (not having a pop at him) great servent and a fine footballer and if I remember rightly we had a good goal ruled out in the game as well, having said that have to say fair play to Wexford that day they never gave up.The westmeath game yeah for me a big turning point was biggy getting the black card, they couldn't cope with him that day one of his better days for us(should have been alot more his talent for me is unquestionable but his consistently was) again though you have to say fair play to westmeath never gave up it some thing we done alot under Sean.The next day was v tryone in omagh(opened to correction) but I think we lost by two points, close enough a couple of calls in our favor who knows we may have won but omagh is one of the toughest places to go on top form never mind the demoralizing defeat we took v westmeath."
Yes I remember the Farrell miss, he was a very talented player but I think the pressure used to get to him a bit, you could understand given the circumstances. Wasn't it Joe Sheridan who got the goal v Wexford that was ruled out because he'd apparently ripped the ball out of the Wexford Goalie's hands, I remember thinking it was a very harsh decision anyway.

Biggy was playing great stuff against Westmeath and I think his black card was the turning point, but given how well everybody was playing up to that point, it shouldn't have caused us to lose.

Also my apologies, it was Tyrone we played after the Westmeath defeat, I even drove up to the game! Must be getting forgetful in me auld age, it was a pure dogfight of a game and in the end we possibly could have gotten a result!

The Derry defeat was in 2016 I think, we'd been well beaten Dublin and then blew another big lead v Derry.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 03/05/2020 11:35:38    2277348

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "He's talking about Derry in 2016 I thought that was pretty obvious. Both things are true. Mick O'Dowd's reign as Meath manager was a complete disaster and set the Meath team back years. But Biggie also went missing in a lot of big games when we needed him"
He said the immediate game after. In which Reilly had a good game v Tyrone . I mean why oh why go 12 months later to point out a bad game? .
Would he go back to division 3 game when McManus ran rings round keoghan to try to make a point??
It's ridiculous imo. The man of the match v Westmeath from a Meath perspective was Reilly that day, I don't think it's to much of a stretch to say when he went off thing's began to go astray.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 03/05/2020 18:24:50    2277381

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Replying To Htaem:  "Yes I remember the Farrell miss, he was a very talented player but I think the pressure used to get to him a bit, you could understand given the circumstances. Wasn't it Joe Sheridan who got the goal v Wexford that was ruled out because he'd apparently ripped the ball out of the Wexford Goalie's hands, I remember thinking it was a very harsh decision anyway.

Biggy was playing great stuff against Westmeath and I think his black card was the turning point, but given how well everybody was playing up to that point, it shouldn't have caused us to lose.

Also my apologies, it was Tyrone we played after the Westmeath defeat, I even drove up to the game! Must be getting forgetful in me auld age, it was a pure dogfight of a game and in the end we possibly could have gotten a result!

The Derry defeat was in 2016 I think, we'd been well beaten Dublin and then blew another big lead v Derry."
Htaem, no need to apologise to me at all, I just remember going up to omagh to play tryone and thinking how would the lads respond to the westmeath defeat in fairness they rallied well v a fairly good tryone team(who I think got to the semis that year )and with a bit of luck we could have got something.yeah Derry in 2016 was another one alright just didn't have the cuteness and probably had our mentality a bit damaged by the defeats the year before but we probably should have seen that one out as well.once we started to lose leads it's a very hard thing to stop,lads probably thinking they are going to come back at us and it gives the other team a lift when they see our lads getting nervous but I also think us as fans can have a big affect as well if we are thinking we are going to lose this lead that feeds down to the players a bit.I was lucky enough to be at nearly all the games under boylan when it was our trait to comback at the end and never give up and I always remember thinking the same we will come back so maybe we as fans can help by believing more that we can win. I am not saying we will win the game for us(that is down to the manager and players of course)but by us been a bit more confident maybe in the team who knows it might get us over the line in tight games.Anyway I hope yee all stay safe and well through this difficult time.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 03/05/2020 18:56:33    2277385

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Replying To royaldunne:  "He said the immediate game after. In which Reilly had a good game v Tyrone . I mean why oh why go 12 months later to point out a bad game? .
Would he go back to division 3 game when McManus ran rings round keoghan to try to make a point??
It's ridiculous imo. The man of the match v Westmeath from a Meath perspective was Reilly that day, I don't think it's to much of a stretch to say when he went off thing's began to go astray."
There is not 1 mention of the game straight after !!

grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1175 - 03/05/2020 18:59:08    2277386

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Replying To royaldunne:  "He said the immediate game after. In which Reilly had a good game v Tyrone . I mean why oh why go 12 months later to point out a bad game? .
Would he go back to division 3 game when McManus ran rings round keoghan to try to make a point??
It's ridiculous imo. The man of the match v Westmeath from a Meath perspective was Reilly that day, I don't think it's to much of a stretch to say when he went off thing's began to go astray."
Apologise rd my bad.yes tyrone game i was at it.lockdown has me mental.as regards meath supporter if just going to meath inter county games.and not a club game.you have me beaten there.and oi dont live to far from you.
Did well again tyrone will admit that.but i sat behind micko in the last game of his tenure.and he was sending out brendan murphy to tell biggy we need him.i heard it myself.i knew then we were beaten.this is not a berate reilly day.but i def thouvht over the years on this forum you were hard on micko.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 03/05/2020 19:29:09    2277390

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Apologise rd my bad.yes tyrone game i was at it.lockdown has me mental.as regards meath supporter if just going to meath inter county games.and not a club game.you have me beaten there.and oi dont live to far from you.
Did well again tyrone will admit that.but i sat behind micko in the last game of his tenure.and he was sending out brendan murphy to tell biggy we need him.i heard it myself.i knew then we were beaten.this is not a berate reilly day.but i def thouvht over the years on this forum you were hard on micko."
Ahh my apologies for been tetchy. Anyone can make a mistake particularly with all that's goin on. Days of week have no meaning, I wasn't actually having a pop at micko in my original post though. He was bewildered as was the rest of us was my point. And yes in the derry game following year he hadn't a good game. I agree with that.
Anyway like the late 80s band. No sweat. And my apologies for been narky.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 03/05/2020 21:59:32    2277404

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This game was the lowest point ever in Meath football, especially since it followed on from the hammering Dublin gave us in 2014.
Up till 2014 no matter how bad we were going we were always able to put up some sort of performance against Dublin.
Then the following year to be followed up by a first ever less to Westmeath and to do so with such a collapse (went against the traditional Meath team traits) was desperate.
Looking at the team it was obvious that team preparation was way off what other teams were doing.
The mood around Meath football then was at an all time low.
We have found it hard to move on from that time (no personal slight on MOD, he seemed like a nice guy)

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 04/05/2020 13:59:59    2277458

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A group of Westmeath fans beside me that day were all doom and gloom at half time and looked at me like I had 3 heads when I told them they could still win this. Biggy always seemed to have a great game against Westmeath and, if I remember correctly, it was a poor decision to give him a black card as he did not deliberately pull the player down. Think we scored a point after his dismissal.

To this day, I think the warmup pretty much killed us. I was baffled to see the players engaging in sprints from the 13m line to the 65 for a good 10 or 15 minutes before the game.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 05/05/2020 13:57:55    2277550

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Replying To Ratoath Royal:  "A group of Westmeath fans beside me that day were all doom and gloom at half time and looked at me like I had 3 heads when I told them they could still win this. Biggy always seemed to have a great game against Westmeath and, if I remember correctly, it was a poor decision to give him a black card as he did not deliberately pull the player down. Think we scored a point after his dismissal.

To this day, I think the warmup pretty much killed us. I was baffled to see the players engaging in sprints from the 13m line to the 65 for a good 10 or 15 minutes before the game."
Yeah he never touched him actually wmeath player just tripped himself up. Card was rescinded as it wud have meant he missed next game as he was sent off against down and maybe one other (open to correction on that) but that just seemed to lift them. We scored the next score afterwards but boy I don't know what happened then.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/05/2020 20:06:19    2277586

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Agreed. Our worst ever defeat. Longford a few years back in round one of the Leinster championship was also a low point; the whole drive over that day I just couldn't see Meath winning, and it was a long drive home through the countryside, as the N4 was closed. What was the killer for me personally was the fact that it was THAT Westmeath team. The Westmeath sides of the 90s and 00s were often very competitive and deserved wins over Meath they never got. This team were a 2-man show (Heslin and Martin) and they never achieved anything of notability since. They just went for blood and got it all too easily. Meath collapsed like a house of cards. Never seen before. Years of tradition vanished into obscurity. This was the day the magic of Meath football truly died. Since then we've just been another team. The magic is gone. The music is dead.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 10/05/2020 15:51:01    2277874

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I'd like to add as well in relation to the ever-popular topic of the ills of Meath football, that if we consider 2015 and the mental and physical collapse vs. Westmeath to be our lowest ebb, then it begs the question of why or when did the supposed decline or drop-off begin and how it can be best addressed. In my own view, and it is a personal view; Meath is a strange county. In football terms it should not be successful. It's population and urbanisation is associated with the post-millennium bug only and we are acutely aware that only 50/60 years ago it was one of the most sparsely populated counties, being outranked by Louth and Mayo for example, personified by largely empty 3/400 acre fields, its rich history along the boyne/blackwater, and dotted by ghost anglo-Irish estates and populated by wealthy arable farmers and their families in the backyard of the capital city. It was a backwater by modern standards. Unimaginably different from the cosmopolitan 21st century commuter's dream we know today, in scale and in depth.

Yet, Meath was a reasonably successful football county. Furthermore; the success and notoriety of the 80s and 90s just does not make sense on the face of it. I believe its unfair to describe that particular time as a potshot, a fluke, a golden generation that any county of a similar size may have experienced... it just happened to be Meath. I don't think thats fair, however it is a possible factor.

I submit that our success has its impetus in mental strength and fortitude; in pig ignorance to a certain extent; the desire to push on and challenge our capital neighbours and ultimately push away from our other Leinster rivals who perhaps represent everything we don't want to be. They represent failure, they represent the type of county and the mindset that Meath footballers and supporters don't want to be representing. Meath is different to many of those counties in appearance and resource. Quite simply, Meath always retained a very offbeat, detached, and confident mindset and its obvious to anyone that every other county picked up on this years and years ago and hence why the reputation of Meath is what it is. Like I said, mental strength. Call it by a harsher name if you will. Meath is a unique case study. Other counties don't get it. Throw in a county with a lot of clubs, a predilection to play a good quality of football and a base who genuinely get behind the set-up and you have dynamite. These simple factors aren't common in other counties.

So where did it all go wrong?
The departure of Boylan and his team left a lasting impact that was never fully patched up. I go back that far. There was a negligence toward blooding players and a very complacent county board. Within a few years Meath was see-sawing erratically between the All-Ireland series and going out in early qualifier rounds, alarm bells should have been ringing. The minors and youths were not winning big matches. Alarm bells should have been ringing. In relation to players; from 2010 until 2019 the players selected obviously weren't as successful or as consistent as their predecessors, in fact they've been woefully inconsistent. Yet my largest reasoning for our decline goes back to my original point; mental strength.

The 2010 debacle. We need to talk about this in Meath. They never stop talking about it in Louth. Louth won that game and thats it. If a replay was offered Meath would likely have won and won in style, but they didn't offer a replay and the GAA bottled it. On that day, Louth won fair and square and we fell a mile from grace in the eyes of the country that day. It wasn't us. It wasn't like the fabled comebacks we hear about in the past. It emboldened the country against us in a unified effort and to this day very, very few miss what Meath has to offer because 2010 spoiled that, they think of Meath and they think of 2010. It did enormous damage and our panels since then have not had the footprint to move on adequately from it. Hence, 2015, and numerous other years in the 2010s where we went out with a whimper after 2/3 games.

We are lost. Our traditional rivals have moved on without us, leaving us still detached and disenfranchised, only now struggling to find an identity. I could go on for hours but I think youll get the point! The mindset in the new generation isn't naturally as strong as their parents, the footprint of the GAA in our ever burgeoning urban society isn't as pronounced, and the incredible social changes regarding our identity is a big dampener. I know people in their 20s and 30s living in Meath all their lives to Dublin parents who couldn't give a hoot about Meath. We all know who they're supporting. Meath isn't cool. Tayto Park isn't cool. Navan is a ranch. I only sleep here, I work in Dublin. My family are all from Lithuania. The Meath teams of the 80s and 90s were only good because they were dirty and cheated... these are the new norms that many people believe and many people look to 2010 to embolden this incredibly narrow viewpoint. There is an identity crisis in view.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 11/05/2020 09:26:27    2277926

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The Louth Leinster final is 10 years ago this year. It has zero impact on what's happening today. And if Louth won, they would have won. It's bizarre that people seem to forget that Sludden hardly gave Meath anything for around 73 minutes of that game. Even Louth's goal came (albeit indirectly) from a terrible decision given against us. After Louth's goal, he gave them 4 or 5 soft, simple frees to put the game beyond doubt. Louth missed every single one of them. And, you forget that had Louth tried to play football and not spent the last 5 minutes wasting time again and again, we wouldn't have had the chance at the end. To try to make it seem like our current woes stem (even a little bit) from one moment in one game 10 years ago is, quite frankly, bizarre from a Meath fan.

You say that the rot started when Boylan left but it had begun a good while before that. 2002 - 2005 (i.e. the last 4 years of Boylan's reign) were arguably as bad as recently. We lost to Fermanagh two years in a row, lost to Dublin by 8 points, lost to Laois, lost to Cavan and needed a last minute point to bring Leitrim to extra time. The county board neglected underage throughout the 1990s and early 2000s and just seemed to think that the success would continue regardless.

People seem to forget that we weren't a "traditionally successful" county for the vast majority of the GAA's history. Our first Leinster title in the 20th century wasn't until 1939. Our first All Ireland wasn't until 1949. We didn't win Leinster between the years of 1971 - 1986 and in the two years before Boylan came on the scene, we lost to Wexford and Longford respectively in our first games in Leinster.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 11/05/2020 10:45:40    2277933

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