Meath Forum

Meath V Tipp

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Replying To OLLIE:  "Seadog that is the PK curse aka the great Paddy Keenan."
Sooner the better Louth win a Leinster

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2142 - 24/02/2018 23:33:40    2079870

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Well if Andy has lost the dressing room then we are in serious trouble cause it's the players attitude that would in qs. Ask any of them ballboden lads that won an all ireland....theyd have jumped out in front of a bus for mcentee .....and I know that for a fact. He is getting some things wrong in my opinion but if he has lost the dressing room then these players don't have the same drive and ambition as he does. These are the facts....and can't be ignored"
that is 100% correct

royal69er (Meath) - Posts: 96 - 25/02/2018 00:07:06    2079879

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Replying To Footnote:  "Ok "the players are not there" but are we getting the best out of what we have, absolutely not!! Not sure yet what to say about the game tonight , much more disappointed than last week. But. One thing , what on Earth was the management at, taking off sean tobin in the first half, who was by far and away our best foward, yes he had got a knock but had told the line he was ok and was furious when he was taken off, absolute amateur hour!!!!"
The management have got it totally wrong taking off Tobin a guy that trys he hardest and best every time he puts on the jersey. While others are stand with the hands on there hips. Its just plain wrong.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 25/02/2018 09:13:29    2079910

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Replying To royal69er:  "that is 100% correct"
ALL in the past now anyway.... Intercounty management /coaching is a different kettle of fish. You are up against The Gavins, Hartes, Fitzmaurices etc. Andy is new at this level. He is not blessed with talent other counties have at their disposal either in terms of players and other resources. I don't know Andy ,so i don't know how willing he is to learn from his mistakes. It certainly appears as if he is not getting the best out of the lads. I suggest that is because he is over anxious to try to get Meath football out of the mess of the last few years. This may come across as a dictatorial impatient style which simply will not yield dividends.. Certainly he cannot be accused of lack of effort or passion for the job. I applaud him for that, as i do for the players also
No doubt it is reflection time now for all. Promotion is gone now,but all is not lost if the last 18 months is used as a learning exercise. Andy will ask himself about his style and his tempremenet. I recall on his appointment he insisted on having a named s and c coach .Well that certainly worked well as the lads show the benefits of that request.
For the immediate future I would like to see Andy relax. Lets the lads go out and almost throw caution to the wind in the next match anyway.Go for broke. Lets the lads expressed themselves fully. You will still have the reins.just relax your grip
The key now is what happens from the learning that should have taken place. Nobody died.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 25/02/2018 10:11:24    2079917

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Wont decend this into a thread like the cavan one but meath look very very limited, are ye missing many? Bar jack kennedy if everyone is fit that will be our championship team with maybe 1 other change, it was as controlled a display by us in a long time and result was never in doubt. Clare are very poor this year but they are notoriously hard to beat in ennis so meath still need one or two big performances possibly to remain in division 2.

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 25/02/2018 10:13:22    2079918

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Replying To bobkarlgees:  "The management have got it totally wrong taking off Tobin a guy that trys he hardest and best every time he puts on the jersey. While others are stand with the hands on there hips. Its just plain wrong."
Agreed 100%

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 25/02/2018 10:33:47    2079924

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Lads i knocking around for the weekend and decided to go to the game.

The biggest issue i can see are the quality of footballer you have.

There was no Mick Quinlivan, Conor Sweeney, Evan Comerford or Robbie Kiely in the Meath team.

For what it's worth in Kildare we have looked at underage for the last 10 years or so and are beating the Dubs and being on a par with them at all age groups. They are the bar you need to reach.

Ok we will struggle to survive in Div1 at this stage but a one point loss to both Monaghan and Tyrone in which we contributed to our own demise is still encouraging. We have some scope for improvement and i believe we will start turning those defeats into wins. Thats the fruit of our underage structures starting to show.

Andy Mcentee had the players at Ballyboden to be a success but it's different when the players arent readily available. Is he the man for the job or do you need a guy like Pete McGrath who can get the best out of average players.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 25/02/2018 10:35:51    2079925

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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 25/02/2018 10:39:15    2079926

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Meath don't have players of sufficient quality to be anywhere near Division 1. They quality of players they have will be lucky to keep them in Division 2. Meath folk need to get real.

And worse still don't expect this to turn around anytime soon. Meath are 10 years at least away from producing players of sufficient quality to compete at Senior. Yes last years Minors beat Dublin but Dublin hit a bad year group. Did we win the All ireland Minor, NO. Every other Developement squad is behind Dublin and Kildare and from what I see I would question the quality of the Coaches who are being put over teams. Lots with no experience of coaching.

As regards Andy he does have very average and some poor players for County Level, but from Ulster teams perspective he has shown to be completely inexperienced and naive. You can't take on Cavan in manner which he ask Meath lads to play and win. All Ulster teams you must play with patience and not get hit on the counter attack.

UCD played Jordanstown up in Monaghan. Few weeks back.UUJ had 9/10 Tyrone lads and ulster lads and they all played behind the ball, did UCD go driving at them. No there management too cute for that and it was great game of cat and mouse ending in two periods of extra time which UCD won. Andy looks very naive especially get Ulster teams.

Yes Andy has not covered himself in glory, but he has poor/average players but clubs are ultimately to blame for not driving schools football and recruitment from 2000 to 2010 and beyond and coaching and games have exacerbated Meaths issues at Development Level with mad cap appointments of coaches with no experience and constant driving of chronism and nepotism at the expense of doing the right thing and appointment the best coaches.

Talking_Sense (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 25/02/2018 10:39:23    2079927

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "Over-Coaching

It looks like excessive input from the manger while the players are playing in such a way that the coach's input becomes debilitating to the player's ability to perform to the best of their ability and stifles their development. In short, the coach is playing instead of the player, making all of their decisions for them.

Is over-coaching a problem? Is training 6 days a week also problem ?

I see this as a problem. Too often, mangers feel an undue pressure to win games and therefore over-coach the players. As a result, at game time, and during practice, making it impossible for the players to enjoy themselves and express themselves on the field.

What are the effects on players and coaches of over-coaching, both long and short term?

Mostly, the players end up quitting. They do not want to subject themselves to this "hostile" environment of 6 day a week training . They rebel against the pressures and hyper supervision of the manager . If they do hang on, they lack creativity in their play, or the ability to solve the games' problems by themselves. Thus, their development is retarded and they are no longer able to meet the demands of the game at the next level.

I think looking at the last two Meath losses it has Over-Coaching written all over it !

People will say you're only good as you're tools meaning that Andy doesn't have the players to work with to win matches ! I personally don't believe that...i seen here at our own club level eg Davy Cahill winning with teams that he had no right in winning with..basically he hadn't the tools if you want to call it that !

Best underage soccer system in the world ? England club Academies ! Still never won a world for the last 50 years !

Best underage rugby Academies in the world ? England and France not New Zealand !

just saying."
Is over coaching a nice way of saying bad coaching.? But I agree with you to most of what you saying. We can't do or are afraid to do the basic stuff well. 14 minutes to score 2 points kicking the ball short in those minutes. And the worst was to see nobody on the square for the second one. But tipp look so comfortable in the ball same as Longford the day we played them. My question here is have we got a football coach yes s/c yes 5 selectors a donie Buckley mick boHan pascal Keleghan Jason Sherlock ryan mcmenamin type man in our set up.management and coaching is different in my book yes Andy has all the set up right s/c,food,stats,video analysis etc, but It all breaks down to a game of football at the end of the day. I go out on limb here and say just looking at this bunch of players that a 15 on 15 set up would suit us now.ok if elements are on any given day bad wind wet conditions horse for courses but I don't think this management set up think like this is it a dictatorship I don't know. But if change does not come and come quickly we are goin out with a whimper come May.players not happy body language is telling us that but to keep doin the same thing is full on madness.he has his panel that's his perogative but use the to there strengths not force his system on them it never works that way only instills bad vibe in camp. just saying

Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 25/02/2018 11:16:44    2079936

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Replying To daytona11:  "Lads i knocking around for the weekend and decided to go to the game.

The biggest issue i can see are the quality of footballer you have.

There was no Mick Quinlivan, Conor Sweeney, Evan Comerford or Robbie Kiely in the Meath team.

For what it's worth in Kildare we have looked at underage for the last 10 years or so and are beating the Dubs and being on a par with them at all age groups. They are the bar you need to reach.

Ok we will struggle to survive in Div1 at this stage but a one point loss to both Monaghan and Tyrone in which we contributed to our own demise is still encouraging. We have some scope for improvement and i believe we will start turning those defeats into wins. Thats the fruit of our underage structures starting to show.

Andy Mcentee had the players at Ballyboden to be a success but it's different when the players arent readily available. Is he the man for the job or do you need a guy like Pete McGrath who can get the best out of average players."
We took manager on the premise of him been all ireland club winner fair enuf but is that what we needed this in the Gaa circles is the problem. There is lads moving around clubs where the club is probably goin to win the champ any way all of a sudden there genuis's when in fact they get a team that needs a bit of work man management skills etc. now we see the full extent of there coaching personality etc. the question I would ask my club or county is what stage are we at here youth wise experience wise personality wise. What type man do we need. We seemed to have parashutted a man in without any real thought now we are getting upset over how it's goin. The county board are getting away lightly in this one.

Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 25/02/2018 11:30:33    2079940

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Replying To seadog54:  "Sooner the better Louth win a Leinster"
Seadog 2010 was the one that got away from the Wee County. Day's like that don't come around too often. The only consolation is that I seen my beloved Wee County play in a Leinster final a day that I thought I would never see especially in the nineties when Louth lost six Leinster semi-finals. But wee will live in hope.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 25/02/2018 12:18:24    2079950

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A couple of things are blindingly obvious after last night, the players are almost paralysed with fear about making mistakes or trying something. instead of trying that pass they opt out and play the conservative pass. And why is this , well you only have to look at what happened to Dan O Neill last night, a talented young lad who was trying to be positive, played a couple of very good kick passes into tobin but made a couple of mistakes, a hand pass that went astray and a cross field pass that was intercepted. On each occasion he was moving forward and trying to be positive and what happens, he gets taken off with 8 or 9 minutes to go til half time. What a shocking case of man management, if they were intent on taking him off, why not wait til half time and do it in a more sympathetic way to the young lad.It wasn't as if there wasn't another 6 or 7 who could have come off anyway. But my point is that the players have had the creativity and initiative sucked out of them. that has to change and also maybe the time has come for G.Reilly not to be on the starting 15, his attitude will infect or maybe has already, the whole team and especially the young lads. Before any of his supporters have a go, I have never said a bad word about Graham before but maybe he would have an impact from the bench , he is not giving it his all which is far worse that making mistakes. But more importantly, it is a big manager that can see that what he thought was the way to go needs to be changed , we may well fail but we almost certainly will if this continues, so whats to loose!!!!!!

Footnote (Meath) - Posts: 66 - 25/02/2018 12:30:33    2079953

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I was shot down when I asked this before but what is Gerry MacEntee bringing to the party? He was an absolute legend in his playing days and very succcessful in his profession but I dont think he knows enough about Meath club football or has enough coaching experience at the top level to make the impact that is needed here.

Also where is Daire Rowe? And taking off Sean Tobin last night? It seems to me anyway that certain plaers will always be played and certain players will not and if hey do start it is certain players that will be called off first. It's very like what you see from a hot headed club manager/ It's just so frustrating to see it from a manager so lauded when he came on board.

But, at the end of the day, it must be said that we don have any major players like a Trevor Giles, Geraghty, O'Rourke, Murphy, McDermott etc to pull them through a tight game and to lead in the dressing room. So Andy, Mick O Dowd etc cannot be held to the standards of those teams.

oldsam_newsam (Meath) - Posts: 638 - 25/02/2018 12:32:14    2079954

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I go to every game, don't post here that often but read all the comments, some very valid points. Firstly, realistically a final day win against Louth might not be enough to keep us in the Division depending on other results so 1 win from the next 2 is absolutely crucial! On last night and going back to last Sunday in Cavan the game plan (If you could call it a game plan) needs to be scraped. I feel if we go out and have a proper go at teams instead of all this back and lateral passing, we'll win more games than we'll lose because we have talented forwards but one can't help but feel they are being wasted out around the middle with no one inside to penetrate (eg. Reilly, McKeever, Wallace, O'Sullivan etc.)

Sean Tobin whether the management thought he was injured or not was a crazy decision to take him off. Surely there should have been some proper communication between player and management/physio. If management did realise he wasn't injured then why not bring him back? We still had 4 subs remaining after all...

Looking ahead to next week, Andy has big decisions to make starting in his first line of defence, think it could be a good opportunity to take Colgan out of the firing line and bring Gallagher in for that added bit of experience. I feel a bit for the full back line who are being totally exposed, any Inter-county forward who gets a one on one with a back would fancy his chances even if its against top-class defenders like Keoghan and McGill.

2/3 of the half back line were dropped for last night, think questions need to be asked about the other one in there too, is it really a coincidence that Carry, Harnan, Tobin and Douglas all walked away from the panel in the last 6 months?

Meathmaster (Meath) - Posts: 251 - 25/02/2018 12:47:20    2079957

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Well the last few matches have been a big disappointment no doubt. Will not be a happy camp now. Where to from here and what are the objectives? FEAR appears to rule the roost . Management Style ?? Morale ? So what plans now ? The next match has to be used as a cleansing exercise. How ? Andy stand well back and observe only. Players given freedom to express themselves by using their football brain Tactics 15 against 15 direct football mostly..... score more than they do. No over analysis with complicated tactics that we are not ready for now, or maybe don't buy into anyway. The only sin will be lack of workrate. Play to our strenght physical fitness ..use it. What have we got to lose? To GAIN ? SHOW the players we trust them by freeing them up to play the game they love .let them play by instinct. REMEMBER Andy you are observing . You still have the reins..just release your grip a little.
The COUNTY BOARD will play a part by better promoting a better balance of work and play by finding a few quid to send Andy and his team away with the players even for a weekend before the championship starts .The emphasis is on relaxation and socialising. Remember all work and no play........ Some will say that is rewarding failure BULLS..T. We are on a journey , so we try different things. but above all acknowledge the effort so far. NOBODY enjoys being where we are . Thus begins a new chapter. Throw away the fear ,and yes we will even beat Cork if we have a good chat during the week. Nothing new about this approach Boylan did it before the All ireland replay in 1988. with the right outcome-

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 25/02/2018 13:39:43    2079975

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Replying To Meathmaster:  "I go to every game, don't post here that often but read all the comments, some very valid points. Firstly, realistically a final day win against Louth might not be enough to keep us in the Division depending on other results so 1 win from the next 2 is absolutely crucial! On last night and going back to last Sunday in Cavan the game plan (If you could call it a game plan) needs to be scraped. I feel if we go out and have a proper go at teams instead of all this back and lateral passing, we'll win more games than we'll lose because we have talented forwards but one can't help but feel they are being wasted out around the middle with no one inside to penetrate (eg. Reilly, McKeever, Wallace, O'Sullivan etc.)

Sean Tobin whether the management thought he was injured or not was a crazy decision to take him off. Surely there should have been some proper communication between player and management/physio. If management did realise he wasn't injured then why not bring him back? We still had 4 subs remaining after all...

Looking ahead to next week, Andy has big decisions to make starting in his first line of defence, think it could be a good opportunity to take Colgan out of the firing line and bring Gallagher in for that added bit of experience. I feel a bit for the full back line who are being totally exposed, any Inter-county forward who gets a one on one with a back would fancy his chances even if its against top-class defenders like Keoghan and McGill.

2/3 of the half back line were dropped for last night, think questions need to be asked about the other one in there too, is it really a coincidence that Carry, Harnan, Tobin and Douglas all walked away from the panel in the last 6 months?"
I agree regarding the half back line.

I think Douglas walking away from the panel in recent weeks is very telling as he went straight to the hurling panel. I am not saying that I think Douglas should be on ahead of Shane Mac but I do think he should have been given a run and a chance to prove himself especially after the way things went in the Roscommon game.

oldsam_newsam (Meath) - Posts: 638 - 25/02/2018 14:03:19    2079982

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Strange decision to play Burke at centre back? Why hasn't Conlon been tried in the number 6 role as that's where he's excelled for Simonstown the last 2 years? Anyone know if Daire Rowe was asked into the setup this year?

ClashofTheAsh13 (Meath) - Posts: 31 - 25/02/2018 14:05:55    2079984

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I think some on here writing off the season too soon. Last 2 games a bit disapointing especially after first 2 games people were starting to think we were improving and possibility of promoation was looking realistic.
If we lose next 3 league games and get relegated I will agree things look terrible but I think we will end up winning 1 or 2 of our remaining games (5 points would be unlikely to see us relegated). I think we will end up staying in this division, mid table as usual. Easy to forget most years we have some dire performances in the league which people afterwards say are 'the worst ever'.
Last season I thought we were a little bit improved on previous Championship seasons, we actually won a qualifier match and there was no second half collapses to look back on.
Wait till we are knocked out of the championship to judge are we going backwards or forwards.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 25/02/2018 14:19:55    2079988

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I think some on here writing off the season too soon. Last 2 games a bit disapointing especially after first 2 games people were starting to think we were improving and possibility of promoation was looking realistic.
If we lose next 3 league games and get relegated I will agree things look terrible but I think we will end up winning 1 or 2 of our remaining games (5 points would be unlikely to see us relegated). I think we will end up staying in this division, mid table as usual. Easy to forget most years we have some dire performances in the league which people afterwards say are 'the worst ever'.
Last season I thought we were a little bit improved on previous Championship seasons, we actually won a qualifier match and there was no second half collapses to look back on.
Wait till we are knocked out of the championship to judge are we going backwards or forwards."
Nonsense.

A few of our Comical Ali posters who know little or nothing about Meath club football but claim to be Meath's greatest fans because "by God" and "be Jaysus" and "passion this and "hit them hard that" thought that average and selfish club footballers from their own clubs were going to win all stars this year and that if you dared ask what exactly happened to our best players were not real fans.

Anyone with even a passing interest in meath football couldn't believe their eyes when the Meath squad was announced in the Chronicle before Christmas. It read like the Meath junior team announced on the eve of Leinster junior championship match, all the best players apart from Keoghan were gone. Divisive selfish figures Who one would have thought the McEntees would have no time for remained.

Presumably many of the county's best players won't play for this management team. That's why we have this poor squad. Nobody wants to be treated like children. I'm sure you can shortly add the pick of the bunch from the latest players to be messed around with last night. O Neil taken off in first half, Tobin taken off in first half - Boylan wouldn't do that, nor would Gavin or McGuinness to a team that is only developing . What was it in aid of ? To frighten them? Teach a lesson? Gain respect? Respect is earned, and management have to earn that respect the same as players do.You have to treat players with respect - this macho old fashioned bullshit ( there is a few managers in meath notorious for it, one who I think has managed every club at this stage and now none will touch him) doesn't work anymore.

The players rightfully will ask themselves who the fk are you and why am I taking this shit. There seems to be no culture or tactic to buy into. You'd think they'd at least ask themselves why all these players dropped off?

Maybe we'd be better off in Div 3 for a year or two at this point and rebuild from there.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1318 - 25/02/2018 14:50:41    2079993

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