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Replying To Footnote: "I agree that the players seem to have lost any semblance of initiative and are so afraid to do something outside the box that they are continually running up blind alleys or mindlessly passing it over and back. During the O byrne cup game in Carlow I remember thinking, how on earth can we expect to progress if we have a system where all 15 players are in our own half while playing with the wind!! But I thought maybe it was just going to take time to hone a style of play with new players, however we are still at it!! It really has to come down to the management. There is never a chance of a quick ball in to a forward because they are not there, and by the time we recycle it, any team worth its salt will have put up the barricades and then you are hoping for a free or a lucky break .( compare that to Cavan who did leave 2 forwards up and when we ended up running up blind alleys loosing possession, the ball was transferred quickly -usually by foot passes to forwards who then had space to take on their marker _even Donal Keoghan couldn't stop his man scoring once the ball was played in accurately and QUICKLY!! Contrary to others I do believe we have players that can compete and succeed at this level, i.e Div 2. I also believe we have a very driven and passionate manager, he just has to let the players play in a way that we can utilise the obvious talents that are there.
Its all about opinions, and maybe mine is wrong too!!!
In relation to the missing players you mentioned , as stated Douglas left and then joined the hurlers , but I believe the rest are still in the squad, just not in match day panels" It's not just you a lot of people see this but what would we know.
Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 23/02/2018 10:58:43
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Replying To Loyalroyal17: "Supposed to be this evening. Knowing us it will be the morning!
Who wants to lay a bet that Tobin will be announced as starting but doesn't. Anyone any idea why he has done this with last couple of game??" Don't know tbh. Maybe a injury that he doesn't want to risk? Maybe a tactic? I haven't any idea. Tobin himself must know though , got to say it's a strange one tbh
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/02/2018 11:13:13
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Replying To royaldunne: "Don't know tbh. Maybe a injury that he doesn't want to risk? Maybe a tactic? I haven't any idea. Tobin himself must know though , got to say it's a strange one tbh" Very peculiar, he looks to be in fairly top shape. I follow him on instagram & he seems perfectly ok to me. Me nerves are shot over this game tomorrow, just hope he can do his thing for us tomorrow!!
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 23/02/2018 11:26:42
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Replying To Loyalroyal17: "Very peculiar, he looks to be in fairly top shape. I follow him on instagram & he seems perfectly ok to me. Me nerves are shot over this game tomorrow, just hope he can do his thing for us tomorrow!!" We need to keep their forwards from getting good ball in, they will destroy us, I see a game of us holding possession lots. Only problem with that is we not as good at it like the likes of Cavan and the other Ulster teams are. We often softly cough up ball.
I'm worried no doubt. I've always been wary of this game, before league I had it down as a loss, but then I had last week as a win, hopefully I'm wrong again. Make no mistake tipp have the best inside forward line in this division
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/02/2018 13:12:44
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Getting rid of the management team is futile. Complete lack of continuity if we start dumping managers after a few bad results.
Comparisons with the Boylan era or any other era is futile, even with any other county is probably even a greater waste of time. The hallmark of any management team is making the most of the "hand you have been dealt" and putting your own stamp on the team. Presently we don't have buckets full of talent within the county but to give the current management team credit they appear to have addressed the matter of fitness as the team is now capable of performing over the required 75 minutes +. Next to be worked on is concentration from even before the throw-in to the very last second of any game.
As I said in a previous post we must use our 'Maors or runners' to make early changes or to deliver a required 'gee up' to any player who isn't staying with the game plan. It is not a question of whither you like the manager or not, HE IS THERE and he has to get on with it, if for no other reason other than previous changes have not brought us any nearer to a Leinster Championship or to Division 1 either.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1063 - 23/02/2018 13:15:55
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Replying To MillerX: "Getting rid of the management team is futile. Complete lack of continuity if we start dumping managers after a few bad results.
Comparisons with the Boylan era or any other era is futile, even with any other county is probably even a greater waste of time. The hallmark of any management team is making the most of the "hand you have been dealt" and putting your own stamp on the team. Presently we don't have buckets full of talent within the county but to give the current management team credit they appear to have addressed the matter of fitness as the team is now capable of performing over the required 75 minutes +. Next to be worked on is concentration from even before the throw-in to the very last second of any game.
As I said in a previous post we must use our 'Maors or runners' to make early changes or to deliver a required 'gee up' to any player who isn't staying with the game plan. It is not a question of whither you like the manager or not, HE IS THERE and he has to get on with it, if for no other reason other than previous changes have not brought us any nearer to a Leinster Championship or to Division 1 either." I'm not advocating for a change, I don't think anyone really is. There are some people questioning him whereas others seem to see this as heresy.
I agree we don't have the greatest players, we are a very young team so we do have time on our side in that regard. People are clutching at straws with the team "looking fitter" they are not winning so what does it matter. I see no "Andy stamp" on the team, they look identical to previous managers in terms of inconsistent performance and results thus far.
Why were previous managers universally pilloried on here but Andy is given more or less free rein? Unfortunately, I think we are seeing our problems run a bit deeper than a new manager and a new fitness regime.
pauk123 (USA) - Posts: 189 - 23/02/2018 14:20:59
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Replying To MillerX: "Getting rid of the management team is futile. Complete lack of continuity if we start dumping managers after a few bad results.
Comparisons with the Boylan era or any other era is futile, even with any other county is probably even a greater waste of time. The hallmark of any management team is making the most of the "hand you have been dealt" and putting your own stamp on the team. Presently we don't have buckets full of talent within the county but to give the current management team credit they appear to have addressed the matter of fitness as the team is now capable of performing over the required 75 minutes +. Next to be worked on is concentration from even before the throw-in to the very last second of any game.
As I said in a previous post we must use our 'Maors or runners' to make early changes or to deliver a required 'gee up' to any player who isn't staying with the game plan. It is not a question of whither you like the manager or not, HE IS THERE and he has to get on with it, if for no other reason other than previous changes have not brought us any nearer to a Leinster Championship or to Division 1 either." Don't think too many here would like to see a change of management for a few years but supporters are entitled to express disappointment with some of his decision making. Certainly the way we are set up at the moment will get us nowhere -we wont win games against any good team if we play while attacking with only one inside forward. Also most people I have spoken to or that contribute to this forum don't feel that Shane Mc is fully deserving of his place and that brings into question Andy's ability to pick the best possible Meath team. The same thing happens in clubs where fathers always pick their sons but it shouldn't happen unless they are exceptional . When you have family involved it is only natural that a lot of your focus goes on how he is performing rather than the team and that's not good as you don't see the bigger picture. Anyone at the Cavan game last week could see that we had no inside forwards for most of the game but our management didn't attempt at any time to rectify this so either they didn't see this or if they did were content to stay with the failed "game plan" .
Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 23/02/2018 14:43:42
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Replying To pauk123: "I'm not advocating for a change, I don't think anyone really is. There are some people questioning him whereas others seem to see this as heresy.
I agree we don't have the greatest players, we are a very young team so we do have time on our side in that regard. People are clutching at straws with the team "looking fitter" they are not winning so what does it matter. I see no "Andy stamp" on the team, they look identical to previous managers in terms of inconsistent performance and results thus far.
Why were previous managers universally pilloried on here but Andy is given more or less free rein? Unfortunately, I think we are seeing our problems run a bit deeper than a new manager and a new fitness regime." I think Andy is a superb manager and we all know what he can do. Im actually starting to feel sorry for him, we have to have one of the best management teams out there yet our players just aren't playing close to the standard we should be at. Id say Andy is pulling the hair out of his head in frustration, we cant hold him entirely responsible. I do believe he is more than capable of bringing us closer to a Leinster title over next couple of years but if lads are not co operating with him hes p*****g against the wind.
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 23/02/2018 14:59:44
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Replying To Loyalroyal17: "I think Andy is a superb manager and we all know what he can do. Im actually starting to feel sorry for him, we have to have one of the best management teams out there yet our players just aren't playing close to the standard we should be at. Id say Andy is pulling the hair out of his head in frustration, we cant hold him entirely responsible. I do believe he is more than capable of bringing us closer to a Leinster title over next couple of years but if lads are not co operating with him hes p*****g against the wind." Change manager will not further the cause at this time..SO that's out We need a change of culture within the team. Their is a massive culture of fear within the team for several matches now. Looking at play you have umpteen examples of that. That culture is holding back progress. WHERE is that fear coming from. Is it the management style? don't know. What i do believe is the fear has to go. WHO has the job of getting rid of the fear? Andy Mc Entee . ANY plan that does not allow players the freedom to use their footballing brain within limits is a non runner anyway. I firmly believe if we could get that monkey off our back that would be a big step forward. Here is hoping that happens to morrow.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 23/02/2018 15:29:27
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Replying To nobull456: "Change manager will not further the cause at this time..SO that's out We need a change of culture within the team. Their is a massive culture of fear within the team for several matches now. Looking at play you have umpteen examples of that. That culture is holding back progress. WHERE is that fear coming from. Is it the management style? don't know. What i do believe is the fear has to go. WHO has the job of getting rid of the fear? Andy Mc Entee . ANY plan that does not allow players the freedom to use their footballing brain within limits is a non runner anyway. I firmly believe if we could get that monkey off our back that would be a big step forward. Here is hoping that happens to morrow." That word FEAR is a very big factor here and you have hit the nail on the head. We were always known as a fearless team and one team we never feared ever, while others did was the Dubs. We need to get that fearlessness back into these lads. Its so frustrating looking at them, i just don't know any more to be honest! If we cant turn things around i myself fear the absolute worst for us. It was so exciting back in January when we started with O'Bryne cup, new year, new team, new expectations....happy days. But that excitement is slowly wearing off into a lot of disappointment. Think i may actually cry if we lose tomorrow.
Loyalroyal17 (Meath) - Posts: 627 - 23/02/2018 16:03:26
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Replying To Loyalroyal17: "I think Andy is a superb manager and we all know what he can do. Im actually starting to feel sorry for him, we have to have one of the best management teams out there yet our players just aren't playing close to the standard we should be at. Id say Andy is pulling the hair out of his head in frustration, we cant hold him entirely responsible. I do believe he is more than capable of bringing us closer to a Leinster title over next couple of years but if lads are not co operating with him hes p*****g against the wind." Dont think he requires/deserves our pity, cannot believe all the forwards would move out the field unless instructed to do so. Management seem to be attempting to implement some type of defenceive strategy in first half of games and its not remotely working. If players are not co operating then bench them. The fear of making mistakes must be removed. Hopefully they will play with a little more freedom against Tipp.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2143 - 23/02/2018 18:37:47
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Replying To pauk123: "I'm not advocating for a change, I don't think anyone really is. There are some people questioning him whereas others seem to see this as heresy.
I agree we don't have the greatest players, we are a very young team so we do have time on our side in that regard. People are clutching at straws with the team "looking fitter" they are not winning so what does it matter. I see no "Andy stamp" on the team, they look identical to previous managers in terms of inconsistent performance and results thus far.
Why were previous managers universally pilloried on here but Andy is given more or less free rein? Unfortunately, I think we are seeing our problems run a bit deeper than a new manager and a new fitness regime." Our recovery against Galway, and Cork last year and Roscommon this year are green shoots for me. A small glimpse of the old meath never say die.
I can't remember when we last made comebacks like the above....
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 23/02/2018 19:16:51
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Replying To seadog54: "Dont think he requires/deserves our pity, cannot believe all the forwards would move out the field unless instructed to do so. Management seem to be attempting to implement some type of defenceive strategy in first half of games and its not remotely working. If players are not co operating then bench them. The fear of making mistakes must be removed. Hopefully they will play with a little more freedom against Tipp." 100% spot on.
The shadow of sean Boylan and the glory years continues to cast a long shadow over management teams and players.
Being compared to this player or that player from the past, or comparing the current manager to previous managers will do no good.
I would love to see the lads relax and being provided a bit more room to figure out together how they should play in the heat of battle. No fear of having to live up to the past...
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 23/02/2018 19:24:13
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Replying To Loyalroyal17: "I think Andy is a superb manager and we all know what he can do. Im actually starting to feel sorry for him, we have to have one of the best management teams out there yet our players just aren't playing close to the standard we should be at. Id say Andy is pulling the hair out of his head in frustration, we cant hold him entirely responsible. I do believe he is more than capable of bringing us closer to a Leinster title over next couple of years but if lads are not co operating with him hes p*****g against the wind." The above coukd be applied to every team that plays gaa. A management teams job is to get the best out of what is available to them. Unfortunately for the last couple of Meath managers the public expectation has been totally unrealistic. I know there are a bunch of Andy cheerleaders here who will go to extremes to stand up for him and who will at all costs defend him. The man is doing his best as did the previous manager but the elephant in the room that very very few seem to see is that the quality of players are simply not in Meath at this time. The players are not trying yo p@@s anybody off and they are all putting jn huge time and effort along with everyone else. Normally these posts are about the manager being wrong, first time in a while i seen players being blamed
Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1467 - 23/02/2018 19:47:35
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I think we can talk all day about teams and tactics.
When push comes to shove 7pm tomorrow in Thurles is all that matters.
I feel if we win this game, it will show character and suggest that this team and management is learning.
If we lose, I think it will erode a serious amount of confidence in players and supporters. I witnessed enough in Cavan last week to suggest we haven't kicked on from last summer. Which is so disappointing given we were unbeaten in 2018.
Tipperary have drawn with Clare and capitulated to Roscommon. On paper we should beat them, however after last week I'm scratching my head if I'm honest
Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 757 - 23/02/2018 19:51:29
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Replying To Analyst: "The above coukd be applied to every team that plays gaa. A management teams job is to get the best out of what is available to them. Unfortunately for the last couple of Meath managers the public expectation has been totally unrealistic. I know there are a bunch of Andy cheerleaders here who will go to extremes to stand up for him and who will at all costs defend him. The man is doing his best as did the previous manager but the elephant in the room that very very few seem to see is that the quality of players are simply not in Meath at this time. The players are not trying yo p@@s anybody off and they are all putting jn huge time and effort along with everyone else. Normally these posts are about the manager being wrong, first time in a while i seen players being blamed" Was anybody at our championship final last October? What was the standard like?
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 23/02/2018 20:17:22
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Replying To Royalio11: "I think we can talk all day about teams and tactics.
When push comes to shove 7pm tomorrow in Thurles is all that matters.
I feel if we win this game, it will show character and suggest that this team and management is learning.
If we lose, I think it will erode a serious amount of confidence in players and supporters. I witnessed enough in Cavan last week to suggest we haven't kicked on from last summer. Which is so disappointing given we were unbeaten in 2018.
Tipperary have drawn with Clare and capitulated to Roscommon. On paper we should beat them, however after last week I'm scratching my head if I'm honest" On paper you'd expect Tipp to beat us.
bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 23/02/2018 20:38:36
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But we have had these problems since Boylan left. At every grade for 12 years. 1 leinster senior title in 17 years. No under 21 leinster title in 17 years. We havent been in div 1 for 11 years. We havent played in 8 team div 1 for 20 years. (This is the key for sucess, get back to div 1 and stay there, massive progess will follow). We have had performances since Boylan left like Wexford 2006, Cork 2007, Wexford and limerick 2008, Dublin 2009, Louth Kildare 2010, Monaghan league 2011, Louth league 2012, Monaghan league 2013, Dublin 2014, laois league and Westmeath 2015, Dublin Cavan league 2016, Kildare 2017, Cavan 2018. Alot of problems have predated Andy.
The players lacks belief. McEntee is a good man manager. Its going to take time to instill belief. Years rather then months. Our young players have had bad experiences at underage and senior for Meath. It will take time to build up confidence.
I would give Andy 4 years and of course if he loses dressing room and go back permanently then his position is gone. But I would like to see him given a 4 year period and let him get on with it. Its a long term project. Theres no easy quick fix.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 23/02/2018 21:13:09
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Replying To Royalio11: "I think we can talk all day about teams and tactics.
When push comes to shove 7pm tomorrow in Thurles is all that matters.
I feel if we win this game, it will show character and suggest that this team and management is learning.
If we lose, I think it will erode a serious amount of confidence in players and supporters. I witnessed enough in Cavan last week to suggest we haven't kicked on from last summer. Which is so disappointing given we were unbeaten in 2018.
Tipperary have drawn with Clare and capitulated to Roscommon. On paper we should beat them, however after last week I'm scratching my head if I'm honest" Meath management have said they are putting everything into getting promoted this year,but Cavan game suggested we have not improved since last year. In the Clare game Tipp were without O Brien at midfield and lost Quinlavan to injury in first half. A 50/50 game on Sayurday night. A win would be a huge boost to confidence and set us up to a least challange for promotion.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2143 - 23/02/2018 22:48:56
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A criticism I would have of Andy is he has gone more defensive after kildare loss. I think he was shocked win the kildare loss. And the defensive system has developed siince that game. I would like us to play like we did v Derry Fermanagh and louth last year. We went attack from the very start. Yes have a modern defence system. But we need to keep at least two forward up front to take pressure of our backs.
I think we have never being good at tactics. Under Boylan we had one tactic , organised chaos. Everyman fight for every ball. Drive the ball out to the center of field. And quick long ball into forwards. But the game has changed with sweepers blanket defence possession football.m etc. We have not adapted whatsowver. Neitheir have Down or Galway. Meath Down Galway all had sucess fo decades based on traditional game. None have adapted to the changes in football. Kick and catch teams no longer work. Counties that have always played hand passing game Mayo Donegal have adapted more. While kerry and Dublin have always had a hybrid style of handpassing and kick style. We need to get the balance right. Something we havent achieved at any time for the last 15 years. We always fall between handpassing game and our traditional game. Until we sort this out we are going nowhere.
We have failed tactically against the most tactical aware provience in Ulster. Ulster teams have invented modern football tactics. And our record v ulster teams is dreadful. In the past Ulster teams couldnt beat Meath. 14 All Ireland semi final victories over Ulster teams and no losses. In the last 15 years we have been beaten 7 times knocked out of championship by Ulster. In the last few years in 2013 Tyrone 2014 Armagh 2015 Tyrone 2016 Derry 2017 Donegal have knocked us out. We have only had 1 decent win in Ulster in the league in the last 6 or 7 years and that was Down in 2015 in Newry. So we have an Ulster problem.
Until we start beaten Ulster teams this is a problem. And if Donegal and Tyrone get relegated with could have them and Armagh Cavan Derry and Down in div 2 next year. Imagine that, it would be a mini ulster championship.
The problem with Ulster teams our strenght and conditioning is poor compared to them. Ulster teams our very strong. And in the tackle we always seem to loose possesion. Their defensive systems always seem to thwart us. Our traditional game doesnt work anymore. It is not fit for purpose.
We as a county have never done tactics much. I don't think this is Andy strongest area. He is more a man manager. That is good as all the great managers are more man managers eg Boylan Dwyer and Cody.
But also all our recent managers have been not being great tacticans. The only one I tbought was Banty. I thought breaking ball and tactics were better. There was some horror shows under Banty eg Louth in 2012. But having a top class ulster coach like Paul Grimley helped. Galway seem to be better this year and they have brought in an Ulster ciach from Tyrone 03 team and its working. Maybe we should try that.
Brian Mciver or James Mcarten or McNultys from Armagh our name of the top of my head. Until we get the system balanced between a strong modern defence system and modern forward attack style, a modern kickout strategy and breaking ball strategy we are going to find progress slow. This is the one area that is holding us back. It will take time. But when the players gets physically stronger in mid 20s we will progress. But tactics is an area Andy needs to improve. It one area Meath teams have failed to get to grip since 2001.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 23/02/2018 23:00:11
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