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The best football we have seen from Cavan in the last number of years would be Donegal 20, Down 20 - 2nd half and Donegal 22.
The common denominator in all them games was that we varied our game and moved the ball quick and direct.
We are at our worst when we play that slow ponderous rubbish. To play that , you need players who can break tackles and score from anywhere like Dublin back in the day.
Armagh were going to be extremely compact and break at speed, and we looked like we had absolutely no plan for this . Our defense were exposed on so many occasions on their counter attack's. But this has been a common problem for us, Down could easily have scored 3 or 4 against us recently. I remember Sligo had about 5 goal chances in Croke Park last year too. The warning signs have been there for a while and a good side were always going to punish us .
As for going forward, we decided to move the ball slow and let their defense set playing right into their hands. I'm not sure what management were thinking and they were so slow to make changes and try things to get us back into it.
If you look at both teams on paper, surely we have the better individuals. We are a highly experienced outfit, some lads have ulster medals at all levels. Armagh have won nothing. That clearly means they have been exposed to a better quality of coaching over the years.
blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 194 - 23/04/2023 13:18:04
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Did Mckiernan or James smith get their hands on the ball in the first half.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 456 - 23/04/2023 13:58:18
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Although plenty of lads didn't hit the standard they are capable of, I don't think you could blame any individuals, it's that awful no risk walking with the ball system we insist on playing. You can't win a game being slow and ponderous and by taking no risks, or by players not expressing themselves, but you might just win the odd game by taking risks. The style of play was shown to be untenable in the 1st half of Monaghan and Down games in 2020. Only by playing fast go-forward ball and individuals taking the game by the scruff of the neck did we win both those games. Unfortunately Armagh weren't as brittle and kept us at arms length. I have no problem with us not winning every week (we have a small population), but surely better to go out on your shield having given it everything for the win rather than hand passing our way to an inevitable slow ponderous defeat.
Calving4Sam (Cavan) - Posts: 80 - 23/04/2023 15:32:10
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Replying To FoolsGold: "I saw a stat that none of Cavans shots were inside the scoring zone. Potshots from the wings and outside the 45. Armagh eased up in the second half. The damage was done in first half. Cavan too slow and ponderous" how many of Cavan's scores in the league were outside "the scoring zone" . How many were outside the "scoring zone"!in the Ulster final of 2020. Some days they just dont go over.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/04/2023 17:28:52
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Replying To s goldrick: "how many of Cavan's scores in the league were outside "the scoring zone" . How many were outside the "scoring zone"!in the Ulster final of 2020. Some days they just dont go over." You don't say... All 16 wides showed there wasn't a plan to break down the Armagh defence. Enough time to study Armagh at this stage
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 23/04/2023 17:43:24
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Replying To s goldrick: "how many of Cavan's scores in the league were outside "the scoring zone" . How many were outside the "scoring zone"!in the Ulster final of 2020. Some days they just dont go over." My God you are still harping on about 2020… In truth we have played 4 championship games since that Final and haven't come within an ass's roar of winning any of them…. We have gone back a long way since then….. Time for a complete change of management
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1938 - 23/04/2023 18:36:58
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Unless Cavan get themselves sorted out quickly we'll be heading straight back to Division 3. Terrible tactics and unable to cope with Armagh's high intensity in the tackle. Made alot of the high profile Cavan players look poor. Some questions on officials too not that that is an excuse. Armagh point in first half definitely wide as seen from Eastern terrace. Also was the Armagh goal a square ball?
Kilnaleck Blue (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 23/04/2023 20:16:40
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Gaelic football the last few years has just gone down the drain. So boring and painful to watch. The top brass seriously need to implement some rules to prevent this parking the bus that 99% of teams are employing. Keep possession at all costs, hand pass hand pass hand pass across the pitch, turn back and over the other side - Desperate to watch from the majority of teams. The excitement is gone. The skill is gone to a large degree.
Was really disappointed with that performance. On the easier side of the draw and would of played Down in an ulster semi final.
Everything was so flat. No aggression, hits, niggles, get in their faces. We were at home, give the crowd something to get on their feet about, to roar and get the energy going in the stands.
The shot selection and shooting was so poor. Madden was unlucky for his goal effort he took, don't know how O'Neill got it around the post.
Why could we not put for example Faulkner or G Mck around the square with McVitty or someone in close quarters to pick up breaks. Pull other players away. Have it pre planned, and hit long floated cross field balls in to them and feed off that. We may not off won them all but I guarantee it would of caused chaos for Armagh defence and easier scoring chances would of came off it for Cavan. Was ridiculous just doing the same thing over and over again. No plan B or C.
Be hard to lift the morale over the next few weeks and anything less than a Tailteann Cup final victory will be a failure.
just_the_facts (Cavan) - Posts: 163 - 23/04/2023 20:20:53
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Replying To s goldrick: "Hang on a minute. We bossed the midfield . We stopped Rafferty from going short and every time he went long we won it in midfield. Yes we were taking shots from toi far out but for goodness sake dont write us off like that. We had enough chances to win that game . Both Galligan and Lynch missed frees they would normally score. GNac, Lynch, McVitty and Oisin and Conor Brady other chances that would normally go over. Maybe not all of the 16 wides or the 3 or 4 dropped short would go over but 5 or 6 out of that 20 or so would normally end in a score. It would be interesting to see the possesion stats. If I was Armagh I would not be happy with that second half performance at all. They have some wonderful players alright and Ethan Rafferty is giving them an extra masn outfield but they could easily have not won that game. This was nothing like our defeats to Tyrone or Donegal of a few years ago ." You are deluded if you think we bossed midfield.
Mike_Clitoris69 (Cavan) - Posts: 230 - 23/04/2023 21:09:13
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Replying To blueskies: "The best football we have seen from Cavan in the last number of years would be Donegal 20, Down 20 - 2nd half and Donegal 22.
The common denominator in all them games was that we varied our game and moved the ball quick and direct.
We are at our worst when we play that slow ponderous rubbish. To play that , you need players who can break tackles and score from anywhere like Dublin back in the day.
Armagh were going to be extremely compact and break at speed, and we looked like we had absolutely no plan for this . Our defense were exposed on so many occasions on their counter attack's. But this has been a common problem for us, Down could easily have scored 3 or 4 against us recently. I remember Sligo had about 5 goal chances in Croke Park last year too. The warning signs have been there for a while and a good side were always going to punish us .
As for going forward, we decided to move the ball slow and let their defense set playing right into their hands. I'm not sure what management were thinking and they were so slow to make changes and try things to get us back into it.
If you look at both teams on paper, surely we have the better individuals. We are a highly experienced outfit, some lads have ulster medals at all levels. Armagh have won nothing. That clearly means they have been exposed to a better quality of coaching over the years." 'If you look at both teams on paper, surely we have the better individuals'.....delusional.
Next year in division 2 will establish quality of your players & team. Something to look forward to & get behind your county !
Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 351 - 23/04/2023 22:23:28
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It was accurately described on Twitter by one journalist as a "five point hammering". Cavan weren't at the races and serious questions have to be asked of management. They have known the opponents for months and Armagh were all over the TV the past few months.
Tactically, it was like we didn't know how to play. The wrong option continually taken. We were slow and ponderous when everyone can see football has evolved into a counter attacking game where speed of attack is essential.
There's a three or four week break to Tailteann Cup now and it'll be hard to keep lads focused, particularly some of the younger lads who were harshly left on the bench or not included in the panel yesterday.
It will be interesting to see what lads line out with their clubs in the League over the next few weeks.
Hopefully we'll see some of the U20s move up now because yesterday showed fresh blood is needed.
BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 24/04/2023 07:36:48
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It was a very disappointing result Saturday Evening, but can we really say that it came as a big surprise.
It was called out over the last 2/3 weeks that if we were to get anything from this game, it would need a performance similar to the 2nd half of the league final, but it wasn't to be, and we instead we got a display similar to the 1st half of the league final and the league match against Fermanagh in Breffni.
I see someone laying the blame with the manager, granted, he has to assume some responsibility, but 16 shots that went wide, all of them outside the D comes from very poor decision making. Graham picked the best available 15 to start, brought on players from the bench, but you cant blame him for the decisions of the players on the pitch.
As I said on numerous occasions and as Quigley pointed out last week, you can take a panel of players, get them professionally fit and systematically trained, this will get you so far i.e Division 3, Division 4 and the Tailteann Cup, but when you come up against the top teams, you need players who are not just fit, you need players with footballing IQ's, players that can see opportunities, players that can see a pass, players that are patient and who dont carry a ball into a tackle thinking they can beat 2 or 3 men, players who make runs, players who show for the ball. The difference between the best teams and the average teams in Ireland is the best teams have more players with footballing IQ's.
I read some posts saying that Cavan playing in Division 3 against weaker opposition didnt help us, thats merely nonsense, look at Down, they went out and beat Donegal team yesterday, they did this by doing the exact opposite of what Cavan did versus Armagh.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 24/04/2023 10:16:40
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Look at Galway yesterday. High ball came back off the post and where was D Comer ? Right on the edge of the square . Won the ball and stuck it in the net.
Galway were under pressure until then. I can't believe we didn't leave GMc in full forward for at least half the game. He can field a ball and kick from both feet .
That's a management problem . For years we had no full forward , now we have one we won't use him.
Route one football is the best option for teams like us who can't break down superior defences.
We were always 2nd best on Saturday night and will continue to be until we start to play to our strengths and forget about what every body else does.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 24/04/2023 10:19:47
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Replying To BreffniGuide: "It was accurately described on Twitter by one journalist as a "five point hammering". Cavan weren't at the races and serious questions have to be asked of management. They have known the opponents for months and Armagh were all over the TV the past few months.
Tactically, it was like we didn't know how to play. The wrong option continually taken. We were slow and ponderous when everyone can see football has evolved into a counter attacking game where speed of attack is essential.
There's a three or four week break to Tailteann Cup now and it'll be hard to keep lads focused, particularly some of the younger lads who were harshly left on the bench or not included in the panel yesterday.
It will be interesting to see what lads line out with their clubs in the League over the next few weeks.
Hopefully we'll see some of the U20s move up now because yesterday showed fresh blood is needed." I have a better idea, we kicked 16 wides on Saturday, all out those shot options outside the D. Now, rather than asking management, why you dont you ask the players who kicked those wides. Management pick a team, they facilitate the team, they make changes if necessary, but management cant control what a player does on the pitch, they cant control a player taking the wrong option and kicking a ball outside the D or a player deciding to carry a ball into a tackle. Thats a players decision and time for the players to start showing some responsibility.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 24/04/2023 10:20:34
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It seems that Dara Mc Vitty was only about 50% fit and had done very little training for weeks before this game yet Management decided it was ok to start in the heat of the Ulster Championship… He also picked Kiernan after him playing very little football recently . This is not the first time Mickey Graham did this as a couple of years ago he lined out Moynagh v Tyrone even though he hadn't played a game for 18 months and got destroyed before been called ashore at HT… I would love to know what Burke or McMennimin brings to the set up when you see a team with absolutely no plan or idea how to cope with Armagh .. McMennimin spent the whole game badgering the officials on the sidelines… Time for a major clear out
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1938 - 24/04/2023 10:25:48
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Replying To cavanblueman: "I have a better idea, we kicked 16 wides on Saturday, all out those shot options outside the D. Now, rather than asking management, why you dont you ask the players who kicked those wides. Management pick a team, they facilitate the team, they make changes if necessary, but management cant control what a player does on the pitch, they cant control a player taking the wrong option and kicking a ball outside the D or a player deciding to carry a ball into a tackle. Thats a players decision and time for the players to start showing some responsibility." More of this BS about the scoring zone and d that is what is ruining football cavan spent the 80% of the match trying to get into the scoring zone every coach is gone mad with it I have no problem shooting from outside this zone but you muct practice this skill if you are going to try it in a match do you think Cavan or any other team had a session in the last 6 months practicing this dying skill and then in a tight match when all is lost everyone is trying it if we had of spent one session last week practicing this drill instead of worring about containing Armagh we would have won this game although we did not deserve to. If the gaa had any brains they would change the rules and any long distance score from outside the d is awarded 2 points it would help the game as at the moment it is a terrible spectacle imagine lads practicing kicking long distance points instead of handpassing.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 456 - 24/04/2023 11:18:04
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "It seems that Dara Mc Vitty was only about 50% fit and had done very little training for weeks before this game yet Management decided it was ok to start in the heat of the Ulster Championship… He also picked Kiernan after him playing very little football recently . This is not the first time Mickey Graham did this as a couple of years ago he lined out Moynagh v Tyrone even though he hadn't played a game for 18 months and got destroyed before been called ashore at HT… I would love to know what Burke or McMennimin brings to the set up when you see a team with absolutely no plan or idea how to cope with Armagh .. McMennimin spent the whole game badgering the officials on the sidelines… Time for a major clear out" Nonsense, McVitty was 100% fit and has been training as normal. Kiernan has also been training and both of them have been heavily involved in in-house games and indeed when they spend 4 days in Galway for their training weekend (where they also played a challenge match).
Management picked the strongest 15 available to them , a lot of them seasoned campaigners, time for the players to start accepting responsibility for what happens on the pitch. They were well able to do it in the 2nd half of the league final, yet they simply didnt show up against Armagh.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 24/04/2023 11:23:53
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Replying To Breffni1969: "Look at Galway yesterday. High ball came back off the post and where was D Comer ? Right on the edge of the square . Won the ball and stuck it in the net.
Galway were under pressure until then. I can't believe we didn't leave GMc in full forward for at least half the game. He can field a ball and kick from both feet .
That's a management problem . For years we had no full forward , now we have one we won't use him.
Route one football is the best option for teams like us who can't break down superior defences.
We were always 2nd best on Saturday night and will continue to be until we start to play to our strengths and forget about what every body else does." McKiernan was in on the square many times, but yet when they decided to kick the ball into him, he was being marked by 3 men.
I suppose it was managements fault for the 16 shots outside the D that went wide, or should the players accept responsibility for that?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 24/04/2023 11:26:11
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Nonsense, McVitty was 100% fit and has been training as normal. Kiernan has also been training and both of them have been heavily involved in in-house games and indeed when they spend 4 days in Galway for their training weekend (where they also played a challenge match).
Management picked the strongest 15 available to them , a lot of them seasoned campaigners, time for the players to start accepting responsibility for what happens on the pitch. They were well able to do it in the 2nd half of the league final, yet they simply didnt show up against Armagh." Every one is looking at the league final with blue tinted glasses we did the same as v Armagh treated Fermanagh with far too much respect in the first half and tried to contain them and it nearly back fired with 5 minutes to go in normal time we were 2 points up and fermanagh looked the more threating if they had of had any quality or galligan missed the frees he missed on sathurday we would have lost.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 456 - 24/04/2023 11:38:57
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Replying To cavanblueman: "It was a very disappointing result Saturday Evening, but can we really say that it came as a big surprise.
It was called out over the last 2/3 weeks that if we were to get anything from this game, it would need a performance similar to the 2nd half of the league final, but it wasn't to be, and we instead we got a display similar to the 1st half of the league final and the league match against Fermanagh in Breffni.
I see someone laying the blame with the manager, granted, he has to assume some responsibility, but 16 shots that went wide, all of them outside the D comes from very poor decision making. Graham picked the best available 15 to start, brought on players from the bench, but you cant blame him for the decisions of the players on the pitch.
As I said on numerous occasions and as Quigley pointed out last week, you can take a panel of players, get them professionally fit and systematically trained, this will get you so far i.e Division 3, Division 4 and the Tailteann Cup, but when you come up against the top teams, you need players who are not just fit, you need players with footballing IQ's, players that can see opportunities, players that can see a pass, players that are patient and who dont carry a ball into a tackle thinking they can beat 2 or 3 men, players who make runs, players who show for the ball. The difference between the best teams and the average teams in Ireland is the best teams have more players with footballing IQ's.
I read some posts saying that Cavan playing in Division 3 against weaker opposition didnt help us, thats merely nonsense, look at Down, they went out and beat Donegal team yesterday, they did this by doing the exact opposite of what Cavan did versus Armagh." agree with your point about the lack of footballing intelligence shown by our team on Saturday eve in respect of shot selection & poor decision making but totally disagree with you about playing Div 3/4 league football this past 3 years as been of no significance. it is delusional to state that it hasn't impacted us and to use Down beating Donegal as evidence carries no weight as we all know that Donegal are in turmoil for the past 6 months and currently have an interim manager in charge. a better reflection of the impact of league standings would be Louth (3rd Div 2) beating Westmeath. i know Offaly beat Meath but again that is a Meath team that has been in freefall since the third round of the league and narrowly avoided relegation.
personally i expected us to start the game with aggression, energy & enthusiam as we were playing our first home game in the championship in years and knew what we needed to do to stay in the all-Ireland. also we were in significantly the easier side of the draw. what we got was embarassing. we were lethargic, passive and played as individuals and the game was over after Armagh scored the Goal to go 9 pts clear. it was as previously stated by another poster a 5pt hammering because Armagh made numerous changes in the last 15 mins. some of our more senior players again only got involved when the game was over and were missing in action when needed in the first half.
i have highlighted here on multiple occasions that our inability to score goals would come back to haunt us and our resident dominant poster has dismissed this stating that we were putting up big scores and we would be fine. again putting up 17/18 pts against Div 3/4 defences is light years away from scoring against the top teams and incidently i'm not convinced that Armagh are a good team and i'm of the opinion that either Derry or Monaghon will beat them if they do happen to get over Down.
i
bond (Longford) - Posts: 174 - 24/04/2023 11:48:04
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