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Terrible display again by Cavan management ( only 22 of them by the way)…. the slow lateral passing game imposed on this team is shocking .. It was noted by many that the Cavan team looked leggy… how could this be in a big Final …! If so more bad management…. Time for Mickey Graham to leave stage left… he has dined out on a fortuitous 2020 Ulster campaign long enough…!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 09:34:19
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I say Ryan mcmenamin is the real problem we were very solid defensively for the past few years until he came in.He is like alot of the modern defensive coaches in ulster only has one idea or trick to play and if it doesent work just scratch your head or spit on your hand like gallagher. look at the way we set up in out division 4 league campaign you would think we were facing dublin in each match and conceeding the oppositions kick out in nearly all the matches was what eventually led to the result on sathurday. It must give any team great confidence to collect their own kick out uncontested and saunter up the field to the opposition 45 before you face a tackle.
Dont be too quick to look for Mickeys head they will probably replace him with mcmenamim.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 11/07/2022 10:39:15
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "I say Ryan mcmenamin is the real problem we were very solid defensively for the past few years until he came in.He is like alot of the modern defensive coaches in ulster only has one idea or trick to play and if it doesent work just scratch your head or spit on your hand like gallagher. look at the way we set up in out division 4 league campaign you would think we were facing dublin in each match and conceeding the oppositions kick out in nearly all the matches was what eventually led to the result on sathurday. It must give any team great confidence to collect their own kick out uncontested and saunter up the field to the opposition 45 before you face a tackle.
Dont be too quick to look for Mickeys head they will probably replace him with mcmenamim." Listening to what Mickey said after the game I think he's made his own mind up. Not sure how I feel about it, I would have liked to see him steer us to division 2 and have one more craic at Ulster. I think his background team leave a lot to be desired.
The 3 performances in Croke park were pretty bad overall. Croke park is the ultimate examination of a county footballer. A lot of our lads looked pretty poor out there.
If Mickey does go I hope the county board don't do something stupid and give it to Ricey. I'd hope they would show ambition and go for Malachy o Rourke or Mickey Harte. If you were to go internal I'd take a punt on Damien Donohue. I taught he done a serious job with our 20s this year but he might want one more year with the 20s as next year's team will be very strong.
blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 197 - 11/07/2022 11:41:26
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "I say Ryan mcmenamin is the real problem we were very solid defensively for the past few years until he came in.He is like alot of the modern defensive coaches in ulster only has one idea or trick to play and if it doesent work just scratch your head or spit on your hand like gallagher. look at the way we set up in out division 4 league campaign you would think we were facing dublin in each match and conceeding the oppositions kick out in nearly all the matches was what eventually led to the result on sathurday. It must give any team great confidence to collect their own kick out uncontested and saunter up the field to the opposition 45 before you face a tackle.
Dont be too quick to look for Mickeys head they will probably replace him with mcmenamim." It's not all Mickeys fault. Players too haven to take responsibility. Galligan challenge was red. Ok you might get away with it with another ref but definitely not with Cassidy.
I'd a feeling there would be a red or a few blacks with him.
Defensively there no improvement all year long.
Anything high into the square and we can't deal with it against even the weakest opposition.
5 defenders following Martin for the goal and not 1 laid a glove on him.
Numbers defending but not really doing anything.
And it's been going on all year.
Yes the odd good turnover , but it's not relentless . .
It like we win a turnover and sit back and admire it for 10/15 mins. Drifting in and out of games.
Whatever about Mickey but McMenamin definitely has to go. His expenses could be put to far better use!
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 11/07/2022 11:43:48
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Replying To breffnibluewhite: "I say Ryan mcmenamin is the real problem we were very solid defensively for the past few years until he came in.He is like alot of the modern defensive coaches in ulster only has one idea or trick to play and if it doesent work just scratch your head or spit on your hand like gallagher. look at the way we set up in out division 4 league campaign you would think we were facing dublin in each match and conceeding the oppositions kick out in nearly all the matches was what eventually led to the result on sathurday. It must give any team great confidence to collect their own kick out uncontested and saunter up the field to the opposition 45 before you face a tackle.
Dont be too quick to look for Mickeys head they will probably replace him with mcmenamim." Agree with all you are saying…. Just get rid of the whole lot… we have gone back ways under this management set up…. Playing Division 1 football to struggling to a lucky 1 pt win over London in Division 4….. How in anyones mind with an ounce of football knowledge regard this as progress or in any way acceptable…. Mind boggling how he was left in the job so long
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 11:48:00
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Replying To Breffni1969: "It's not all Mickeys fault. Players too haven to take responsibility. Galligan challenge was red. Ok you might get away with it with another ref but definitely not with Cassidy.
I'd a feeling there would be a red or a few blacks with him.
Defensively there no improvement all year long.
Anything high into the square and we can't deal with it against even the weakest opposition.
5 defenders following Martin for the goal and not 1 laid a glove on him.
Numbers defending but not really doing anything.
And it's been going on all year.
Yes the odd good turnover , but it's not relentless . .
It like we win a turnover and sit back and admire it for 10/15 mins. Drifting in and out of games.
Whatever about Mickey but McMenamin definitely has to go. His expenses could be put to far better use!" Like I said earlier, defensively we've been moving away from men behind the ball to leave more up front and be more of a scoring threat but that hasn't work as or forward play as a team has been terrible, totally relying on individuals to kick super scores. So mcmenamin might need to go but so does whoever trains our forwards.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/07/2022 12:42:02
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Replying To blueskies: "Listening to what Mickey said after the game I think he's made his own mind up. Not sure how I feel about it, I would have liked to see him steer us to division 2 and have one more craic at Ulster. I think his background team leave a lot to be desired.
The 3 performances in Croke park were pretty bad overall. Croke park is the ultimate examination of a county footballer. A lot of our lads looked pretty poor out there.
If Mickey does go I hope the county board don't do something stupid and give it to Ricey. I'd hope they would show ambition and go for Malachy o Rourke or Mickey Harte. If you were to go internal I'd take a punt on Damien Donohue. I taught he done a serious job with our 20s this year but he might want one more year with the 20s as next year's team will be very strong." Damien Donohoe lol
williesboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 419 - 11/07/2022 12:48:03
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Deservedly bet on Saturday unfortunately. Big players like Tomas Galligan, James Smith, Oisin Kiernan & Gearoid had off days, but Mgmt. will have to take a lot of blame also. Conor Brady got a terrible skinning for far too long.
We played with only one proper inside forward for the most of the game, and had Conor Moynagh looking for a kick pass into a line where there were 3 men marking Paddy Lynch most of the time. No shape to our forward line at all compared to Westmeath having 4 lads with their own corner of the 45 rectangle to make runs into and win their own ball and take a man on.
The forwards who were picked or brought on to pull out, Cian Madden, Niall Carolan, Martin & Cormac Reilly and Stephen Smith all didn't really seem to know what they were doing or where they were supposed to be playing as well. And it has been a similar enough story all year really especially when compared to the 2020 Ulster campaign where we had a bit of structure and everyone seemed to know their job, maybe apart from the Donegal game but Donegal have been proven to be not much good now. Antrim as well maybe but sure you know yourself.
Maybe the inside forwards like Conor Madden & TED are just not training well but it seems a backward step to be going away from our kicking game that looked good against Donegal and choosing half backs instead of scoring forwards. Worse than the loss itself is losing the game to Westmeath without even kicking it away ourselves.
Perhaps things have gone stale and even Mickey Graham can do no more to drag big game wins from this group.
Ciaran Brady in 2020 is starting to look very under-rated now for driving us up the field and will hopefully be back to full fitness next year. I see young Lovett on the extended panel as well and hopefully he can fill out and grow up quickly to give Lynch a bit of help inside.
PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 11/07/2022 13:40:38
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Replying To blueskies: "Listening to what Mickey said after the game I think he's made his own mind up. Not sure how I feel about it, I would have liked to see him steer us to division 2 and have one more craic at Ulster. I think his background team leave a lot to be desired.
The 3 performances in Croke park were pretty bad overall. Croke park is the ultimate examination of a county footballer. A lot of our lads looked pretty poor out there.
If Mickey does go I hope the county board don't do something stupid and give it to Ricey. I'd hope they would show ambition and go for Malachy o Rourke or Mickey Harte. If you were to go internal I'd take a punt on Damien Donohue. I taught he done a serious job with our 20s this year but he might want one more year with the 20s as next year's team will be very strong." I think Cavan should look outside the province. Some good coaches in Ulster but they mostly play the same style. Conor laverty and Peter Donnelly were with Monaghan in 2020 and Monaghan just sat back against Cavan in the second half
O Rourke played dogged enough football with Watty Grahams
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 11/07/2022 13:46:51
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Replying To FoolsGold: "I think Cavan should look outside the province. Some good coaches in Ulster but they mostly play the same style. Conor laverty and Peter Donnelly were with Monaghan in 2020 and Monaghan just sat back against Cavan in the second half
O Rourke played dogged enough football with Watty Grahams" It's not just a manager.Forwards coach and defensive coach clearly need to work together and this has not happened for us this year.
The ball into Lynch is too inconsistent. He's no help in there to lay it off when he gets it if he's crowded out to take a score.
Lynch has been a real find this year but 1 swallow never made a summer.
Improvement is all any of us ask for and there's been very little this year despite winning games against mediocre teams.
The 2 biggest tests were Donegal and Westmeath and there was no improvement from the Donegal game to the Westmeath game. A period of 2 months.
So maybe it's time for a change because we can't afford to not get promotion from Div 3.
We need to be playing teams like Westmeath or better regularly if we want to improve ourselves.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 11/07/2022 14:17:18
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Ah here we go, the begrudgers are out with the knives calling for Mickey's scalp, the same begrudgers who were happy with things under Terry for over 5 years - and I see even some are calling for Damien Donohoe to be given a chance, that tells me how clueless some supporters are.
Cavan would have won that game on Sunday but for two things; 1. A stupid red card and 2. A unexplainable pass from one of the teams most experience players that allowed Westmeath go up and score a goal (by the way, the defending for the goal was atrocious. Management didn't tell Galligan to get a red card, that was his decision only nor did they tell Martin Reilly to pass the ball to a Westmeath man - that's the difference between then top players and the rest, top players seldom make those mistakes and even if they do, they keep them to a minimum. Those were two big mistakes in a big game and were the main reasons for defeat.
Its easy to blame the management team when we lose - yes, we can say they should have did this and did that, but the fact is, once the team is picked, its up to the players on the pitch to go out and perform and unfortunately, a lot of them simply didn't perform to the best of their abilities.
The facts are that we have some very good footballers in Cavan and Mickey has worked wonders with them, two Ulster Final appearances in the space of a few years, and our first win since 1997. People need to realise that we are not Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, and Donegal, we are a Division 2/3 team at best and unfortunately, we have been now for a very long time. We simply dont have the top class players that the aforementioned Counties have (maybe we need to look at our underage development to see why) but one things for sure, hats off to the current panel of players and backroom team who give up so much time and effort to represent their County. Those people are amateur sports people, and as Mickey said, inter-county is 24/7 whilst trying to balance families and work, so rather than coming on here calling for heads to roll, why not come on and thank them all and give them the credit they deserve for all their efforts.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 11/07/2022 14:32:42
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Agree with all you are saying…. Just get rid of the whole lot… we have gone back ways under this management set up…. Playing Division 1 football to struggling to a lucky 1 pt win over London in Division 4….. How in anyones mind with an ounce of football knowledge regard this as progress or in any way acceptable…. Mind boggling how he was left in the job so long" Two Ulster Finals during his tenure, our first win since 1997, how is that going backwards? He's introduced young players and given another couple of years, those players will mature and improve.
I suppose you were happy that Terry was left in the job for 5 years and winning the inter continental New York Cup!
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 11/07/2022 14:43:54
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Replying To Breffni1969: "It's not just a manager.Forwards coach and defensive coach clearly need to work together and this has not happened for us this year.
The ball into Lynch is too inconsistent. He's no help in there to lay it off when he gets it if he's crowded out to take a score.
Lynch has been a real find this year but 1 swallow never made a summer.
Improvement is all any of us ask for and there's been very little this year despite winning games against mediocre teams.
The 2 biggest tests were Donegal and Westmeath and there was no improvement from the Donegal game to the Westmeath game. A period of 2 months.
So maybe it's time for a change because we can't afford to not get promotion from Div 3.
We need to be playing teams like Westmeath or better regularly if we want to improve ourselves." Yeah I didn't say it was just the manager. A coach has a big impact on things.
Kieran Donaghy has improved Armagh and they are playing it more direct. Not that Cavan should be looking as far as Kerry but different ideas are good.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 11/07/2022 15:39:59
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Two Ulster Finals during his tenure, our first win since 1997, how is that going backwards? He's introduced young players and given another couple of years, those players will mature and improve.
I suppose you were happy that Terry was left in the job for 5 years and winning the inter continental New York Cup!" How is going from Div 1 to 4 not going backwards….? Cop on … in any other sport anywhere in the world he would be ran long ago…. We got hammered in 1 Ulster final and fluked our way to another yet at the same time tumbling down the league's…. and that's progress
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 15:40:13
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Ah here we go, the begrudgers are out with the knives calling for Mickey's scalp, the same begrudgers who were happy with things under Terry for over 5 years - and I see even some are calling for Damien Donohoe to be given a chance, that tells me how clueless some supporters are.
Cavan would have won that game on Sunday but for two things; 1. A stupid red card and 2. A unexplainable pass from one of the teams most experience players that allowed Westmeath go up and score a goal (by the way, the defending for the goal was atrocious. Management didn't tell Galligan to get a red card, that was his decision only nor did they tell Martin Reilly to pass the ball to a Westmeath man - that's the difference between then top players and the rest, top players seldom make those mistakes and even if they do, they keep them to a minimum. Those were two big mistakes in a big game and were the main reasons for defeat.
Its easy to blame the management team when we lose - yes, we can say they should have did this and did that, but the fact is, once the team is picked, its up to the players on the pitch to go out and perform and unfortunately, a lot of them simply didn't perform to the best of their abilities.
The facts are that we have some very good footballers in Cavan and Mickey has worked wonders with them, two Ulster Final appearances in the space of a few years, and our first win since 1997. People need to realise that we are not Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, and Donegal, we are a Division 2/3 team at best and unfortunately, we have been now for a very long time. We simply dont have the top class players that the aforementioned Counties have (maybe we need to look at our underage development to see why) but one things for sure, hats off to the current panel of players and backroom team who give up so much time and effort to represent their County. Those people are amateur sports people, and as Mickey said, inter-county is 24/7 whilst trying to balance families and work, so rather than coming on here calling for heads to roll, why not come on and thank them all and give them the credit they deserve for all their efforts." Thanks Mickey for bringing us all the way down to Division 4 for the first time in our history
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 15:42:46
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Two Ulster Finals during his tenure, our first win since 1997, how is that going backwards? He's introduced young players and given another couple of years, those players will mature and improve.
I suppose you were happy that Terry was left in the job for 5 years and winning the inter continental New York Cup!" How is going from Div 1 to 4 not going backwards….? Cop on … in any other sport anywhere in the world he would be ran long ago…. We got hammered in 1 Ulster final and fluked our way to another yet at the same time tumbling down the league's…. and that's progress
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 15:43:05
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Ah here we go, the begrudgers are out with the knives calling for Mickey's scalp, the same begrudgers who were happy with things under Terry for over 5 years - and I see even some are calling for Damien Donohoe to be given a chance, that tells me how clueless some supporters are.
Cavan would have won that game on Sunday but for two things; 1. A stupid red card and 2. A unexplainable pass from one of the teams most experience players that allowed Westmeath go up and score a goal (by the way, the defending for the goal was atrocious. Management didn't tell Galligan to get a red card, that was his decision only nor did they tell Martin Reilly to pass the ball to a Westmeath man - that's the difference between then top players and the rest, top players seldom make those mistakes and even if they do, they keep them to a minimum. Those were two big mistakes in a big game and were the main reasons for defeat.
Its easy to blame the management team when we lose - yes, we can say they should have did this and did that, but the fact is, once the team is picked, its up to the players on the pitch to go out and perform and unfortunately, a lot of them simply didn't perform to the best of their abilities.
The facts are that we have some very good footballers in Cavan and Mickey has worked wonders with them, two Ulster Final appearances in the space of a few years, and our first win since 1997. People need to realise that we are not Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, and Donegal, we are a Division 2/3 team at best and unfortunately, we have been now for a very long time. We simply dont have the top class players that the aforementioned Counties have (maybe we need to look at our underage development to see why) but one things for sure, hats off to the current panel of players and backroom team who give up so much time and effort to represent their County. Those people are amateur sports people, and as Mickey said, inter-county is 24/7 whilst trying to balance families and work, so rather than coming on here calling for heads to roll, why not come on and thank them all and give them the credit they deserve for all their efforts." I hope you are not levelling the accusation at me that I am a begrudger, I've backed mickey throughout his 4 years here. However I will say with pretty much this same team we were in Div1 for 2 seasons so now labelling us a Div 2/3 team is that not a sign of where we've gone.
There was more than 2 decisions wrong with our display and setup on Sunday. Management has to take some responsibility in this for putting out a team that can't defend or attack as a unit pretty much all year bar a few glimpses.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/07/2022 16:07:15
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Wow there is some tripe being spouted on here ... calling for mickeys head ? A serious dose of reality is required! Between 1984 and 2018 cavan were in 3 senior ulster finals (95, 97 and 01) in 24 years, under Mickey's management we got to 2 in consecutive years and he has made us competitive in Ulster, I would count us unlucky this year. Only last year was poor in Ulster for us but Tyrone in Omagh is tough and they showed afterwards what they were made of, all this in 4 years.
Need I remind posters that in the late 80's and early 90's there were 7/8 years were we never won a game in Ulster so a bit of perspective is needed. If you look at other metrics, our clubs are not competitive in the Ulster senior club championship so why should the county be ? We don't have a given right to be top dogs in Ulster and bashing a manager who has had some success well it just shows the fickle nature of supporters these days and the comment of D. Donohoe as senior manager, well the less said about that the better, maybe Marty Morrissey to replace Mickey!
Losing the Tailteann cup is the equivalent of losing the div 3 league final and as another poster said, that's real our level, div 2/3. The aim now is to build in div 3 and get promotion, not so long ago Derry were plying their trade in div 4 and look at their improvement in a few years. So stop the whinging and back the team.
sidelineview (Cavan) - Posts: 109 - 11/07/2022 16:15:31
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When Mickey took charge we were playing Div 1/2 football against all the top notch counties in front of large attendances home and away…. Now we are playing Div 3/4 games against London and Waterford in front of 2/3 thousand at most…. How is this progress…? Granted we got to 2 Ulster Finals ( deservedly winning in 2020 but how we managed to get there is still a mystery ) but the team never showed any progress from that win… it's as if they surprised even themselves with the win… Our performances this year have been anything but impressive and as I stated before Westmeath were our big test to where we are after the Donegal game and we failed it ….. It's time Micky was replaced
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 11/07/2022 16:29:18
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Think that Mickey will quit, dropped Oisin Brady off the match day panel and replaced him with Niall Murray, not a move that shows he was thinking of next year
BreffniPark (Cavan) - Posts: 35 - 11/07/2022 16:40:18
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