Cavan Forum

National League 2020

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almost 50 years of watching Cavan through thick & mainly thin times , and despite the many lows & bad performances over those years i have to say yesterdays gutless and pathetic performance by this so called management AND players has to be the bottom of my barrel, No more wasting my breath about Cavan football we're a joke at every level . I really dont see myself supporting Cavan in the Tommy Murphy cup next year
I'M DONE !!!!

spiritof97 (Cavan) - Posts: 36 - 25/10/2020 17:59:18    2301260

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Where do you start with that performance. The problem clearly lies with management.Why are we paying S&C coach and a physio . Surely these two guys should have seen that Killian Clarke and Niall Murray weren t ready for this match. Maybe Mickey thought different. Niall Murray wasnt at the races the previous week or he would have caught that ball that Chris Conroy played perfectly into him. What was our gameplan. Well there wasnt one. Same the previous week. Every management team normally starts with getting a defence system in place.Two weeks in a row the opposition walked through the centre of us. Who was supposed to be centre back. When your as poor as we are in defence you need bodies back and at least make it difficult. Mickey seems happy to play a lad in defence that fouls from first whistle to last.Its not good enough.Thought Timoney was decent against Kildare and didnt even get a run yesterday as Clarke was all over the shop. Faulkner probably needed time off after the County Final he just doesnt look 100% fit. Mickey sticking with the old guard yesterday didnt work and it wont work next week. Whos the players or bodies he hopes to have back.We were near full strength . Kildare and Roscommon should have been out of sight early in the second half of both games if they had of converted their chances. Did we create goal chances. No. The team are playing as if it were Challenge matches and that is down to management. Mickey as much as threw in towel last week on tv hoping the government might step in. Maybe Leo and Michael Martin would know as much .The players in Cavan are hyped up far too much . Just look at the U17 team. We were led to believe they were the TEAM. The manager foolishly stating that it was going to take a great Monaghan team to beat them.Well from what i seen it was a very average Monaghan team. Our manager shouldnt have been blowing smoke up our lads backsides. In the end i could only pick out one player.What an anti climax. After yesterday I'm not expecting much next weekend. Thank god we ll cant go to it.

Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 36 - 25/10/2020 21:30:20    2301392

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Replying To ondforty:  "The seeds of this decline were plain to see in the Tyrone qualifier last year. First time in my life I saw a Cavan team lie down so badly and so obviously. Whatever culture that represented is still around now. People are pointing the finger beyond Micky and into his back room team. But Micky either picked them or accepted them, so he is as much a part of the problem as they are. I called for Mattie's head for less and I think it's time to call it as we see it now.

At some point in the past few weeks the priority became 'let's rely on experience to steady the ship'. Players not good enough during Terry's time returned. And we paid the price. Same old well known disciplinary issues. And even if the experience is injured, let's play them anyway. Very unfair on the players concerned. And if a past star puts his hand up to return, which is very welcome, then let's throw him in straight away too. Madness, all madness.

We are back in a rut and when you are in a rut you need a fresh start with a fresh outlook. Terry did it for us and his approach should be a blueprint up to a point (ie not so focused on defence with no attacking edge). Get a quality Mgnt team together of people with vision and integrity. Focus on minor and U20 and put a transition platform in place such as Terry had with the Leinster Junior competition. Instill a winning mentality at minor and carry it through to senior again. Put a succession plan in place and don't be in a position like we were with Terry, staying on two years too long and not having the right team in place to build on his excellent work. Have we the resolve to start again? Have we any alternative?"
Who in the name of God would want the job??

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 295 - 26/10/2020 00:30:38    2301445

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Replying To ondforty:  "The seeds of this decline were plain to see in the Tyrone qualifier last year. First time in my life I saw a Cavan team lie down so badly and so obviously. Whatever culture that represented is still around now. People are pointing the finger beyond Micky and into his back room team. But Micky either picked them or accepted them, so he is as much a part of the problem as they are. I called for Mattie's head for less and I think it's time to call it as we see it now.

At some point in the past few weeks the priority became 'let's rely on experience to steady the ship'. Players not good enough during Terry's time returned. And we paid the price. Same old well known disciplinary issues. And even if the experience is injured, let's play them anyway. Very unfair on the players concerned. And if a past star puts his hand up to return, which is very welcome, then let's throw him in straight away too. Madness, all madness.

We are back in a rut and when you are in a rut you need a fresh start with a fresh outlook. Terry did it for us and his approach should be a blueprint up to a point (ie not so focused on defence with no attacking edge). Get a quality Mgnt team together of people with vision and integrity. Focus on minor and U20 and put a transition platform in place such as Terry had with the Leinster Junior competition. Instill a winning mentality at minor and carry it through to senior again. Put a succession plan in place and don't be in a position like we were with Terry, staying on two years too long and not having the right team in place to build on his excellent work. Have we the resolve to start again? Have we any alternative?"
That's a pretty spot on post.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 26/10/2020 09:25:00    2301476

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Replying To ondforty:  "The seeds of this decline were plain to see in the Tyrone qualifier last year. First time in my life I saw a Cavan team lie down so badly and so obviously. Whatever culture that represented is still around now. People are pointing the finger beyond Micky and into his back room team. But Micky either picked them or accepted them, so he is as much a part of the problem as they are. I called for Mattie's head for less and I think it's time to call it as we see it now.

At some point in the past few weeks the priority became 'let's rely on experience to steady the ship'. Players not good enough during Terry's time returned. And we paid the price. Same old well known disciplinary issues. And even if the experience is injured, let's play them anyway. Very unfair on the players concerned. And if a past star puts his hand up to return, which is very welcome, then let's throw him in straight away too. Madness, all madness.

We are back in a rut and when you are in a rut you need a fresh start with a fresh outlook. Terry did it for us and his approach should be a blueprint up to a point (ie not so focused on defence with no attacking edge). Get a quality Mgnt team together of people with vision and integrity. Focus on minor and U20 and put a transition platform in place such as Terry had with the Leinster Junior competition. Instill a winning mentality at minor and carry it through to senior again. Put a succession plan in place and don't be in a position like we were with Terry, staying on two years too long and not having the right team in place to build on his excellent work. Have we the resolve to start again? Have we any alternative?"
Lad, Terry was shafted (by some of the heroes that them walked away) and who did they replace him with? Mattie Fabulous McGleenan. Two years wasted with him and now we have Mickey and your calling for his head. Mickey Graham won a leinster club with a minnow team from Longford. You think there are better managers out there breaking the door down? There is a reason they are not breaking the door down. Its because many of our players have serious notions, big fish in a small pond notions. Going back to lads like SJ that thought he was bigger than the team. We fans praise to the hilt piss heads that play a few good games but won't put it in, our best player over the past 5 years a case in point - his behaviour wouldn't be accepted in a Div1 team. Mickey said it himself, lads arrive back unfit for pre season! Doesn't happen in Div1 teams. So players either need to stand up or ship out. Getting rid of Mickey will solve nothing. We need out of this change the manager cycle. What we need is to get lads in the panel who truly truly want to be cavan players and are willing to do what it takes to realise their potential. I would say we need to get a much better quality of coach involved with our u20s and u17s as those teams have been completely under performing. A good place to start would be Terry Hyland, if he would come back.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 26/10/2020 09:34:25    2301483

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Replying To fredflint:  "Lad, Terry was shafted (by some of the heroes that them walked away) and who did they replace him with? Mattie Fabulous McGleenan. Two years wasted with him and now we have Mickey and your calling for his head. Mickey Graham won a leinster club with a minnow team from Longford. You think there are better managers out there breaking the door down? There is a reason they are not breaking the door down. Its because many of our players have serious notions, big fish in a small pond notions. Going back to lads like SJ that thought he was bigger than the team. We fans praise to the hilt piss heads that play a few good games but won't put it in, our best player over the past 5 years a case in point - his behaviour wouldn't be accepted in a Div1 team. Mickey said it himself, lads arrive back unfit for pre season! Doesn't happen in Div1 teams. So players either need to stand up or ship out. Getting rid of Mickey will solve nothing. We need out of this change the manager cycle. What we need is to get lads in the panel who truly truly want to be cavan players and are willing to do what it takes to realise their potential. I would say we need to get a much better quality of coach involved with our u20s and u17s as those teams have been completely under performing. A good place to start would be Terry Hyland, if he would come back."
Terry did a good job of been competing but we won nothing.
We need someone in who bring all the players with him.
Not just pick players cause they were in on the underage setups but because they are performing for their club. Not just keep players cause they can train all day long but cause they are good enough.
The celt picked their team of the senior championship (don't agree with all of it) but only 2 players on it are in with the county. Something is missing somewhere

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 26/10/2020 10:42:38    2301508

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Replying To fredflint:  "Lad, Terry was shafted (by some of the heroes that them walked away) and who did they replace him with? Mattie Fabulous McGleenan. Two years wasted with him and now we have Mickey and your calling for his head. Mickey Graham won a leinster club with a minnow team from Longford. You think there are better managers out there breaking the door down? There is a reason they are not breaking the door down. Its because many of our players have serious notions, big fish in a small pond notions. Going back to lads like SJ that thought he was bigger than the team. We fans praise to the hilt piss heads that play a few good games but won't put it in, our best player over the past 5 years a case in point - his behaviour wouldn't be accepted in a Div1 team. Mickey said it himself, lads arrive back unfit for pre season! Doesn't happen in Div1 teams. So players either need to stand up or ship out. Getting rid of Mickey will solve nothing. We need out of this change the manager cycle. What we need is to get lads in the panel who truly truly want to be cavan players and are willing to do what it takes to realise their potential. I would say we need to get a much better quality of coach involved with our u20s and u17s as those teams have been completely under performing. A good place to start would be Terry Hyland, if he would come back."
Underage needs to improve , the last few appointments have been hugely disappointing and the players deserve better. I agree, id love to see Terry back involved with underage set ups perhaps with the minors. Peter Reilly is another man id love to see back, I have heard people say he was the best manager they had when involved in county set ups. Very tactical and shrewd man. Donal Keoghan was very impressive with Castlerahan and has a decent record with county teams, another option.
In terms of the senior job maybe its time to get an outsider in again, someone to turn the ship around and galvanize things. Malachy O'Rourke would have been my choice but I see he is after taking a club job in Derry. I think Mickey Moran would be a fabulous appointment if we wanted to show real ambition. He knows how to win, we don't.

blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 194 - 26/10/2020 11:12:50    2301533

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Replying To tom84:  "Terry did a good job of been competing but we won nothing.
We need someone in who bring all the players with him.
Not just pick players cause they were in on the underage setups but because they are performing for their club. Not just keep players cause they can train all day long but cause they are good enough.
The celt picked their team of the senior championship (don't agree with all of it) but only 2 players on it are in with the county. Something is missing somewhere"
Yes we won nothing but we went up two divisions and won 4 U21s in that era. What have we won since. Bar Mickeys 1st year last year getting to an Ulster Final we have won nothing or come close to winnin nothing. And I tell you something else, the only thing we "might" win is Div 3 next year. So saying Terry won nothing is pretty pointless. Sacking Mickey would also be really stupid.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 26/10/2020 11:42:16    2301549

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Replying To fredflint:  "Yes we won nothing but we went up two divisions and won 4 U21s in that era. What have we won since. Bar Mickeys 1st year last year getting to an Ulster Final we have won nothing or come close to winnin nothing. And I tell you something else, the only thing we "might" win is Div 3 next year. So saying Terry won nothing is pretty pointless. Sacking Mickey would also be really stupid."
But he didnt win anything. mattie McLean an got us promoted to div 1 and we sacked him. Now mickey has got us relegated twice and we are as bad as we were before Terry.
I'm not running down Terry he did good of making us competive but we need to get someone now that has fresh ideas and new approach to getting the best players in and then getting the best out of the team.
I can't Remember the last time we beat a top team.
If we don't change e the manager we will not get out of division 3

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 26/10/2020 14:32:52    2301644

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Replying To tom84:  "Terry did a good job of been competing but we won nothing.
We need someone in who bring all the players with him.
Not just pick players cause they were in on the underage setups but because they are performing for their club. Not just keep players cause they can train all day long but cause they are good enough.
The celt picked their team of the senior championship (don't agree with all of it) but only 2 players on it are in with the county. Something is missing somewhere"
"We need someone who bring all the players with him"

We need someone who doesn't exist so. You can't bring in players who don't want to go in. You think lads from Ramor and Castlerahan haven't been approached?

The manager can't make them play inter county football if they don't want to.

The problem in our county seems to be the same as the Irish soccer team had for years - our best player(s), according to the armchair pundits, are whoever isn't playing at that time.

Why would a lad go into the county team? Not going in will elevate his status further than committing ever could!

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 26/10/2020 14:51:56    2301651

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Replying To tom84:  "But he didnt win anything. mattie McLean an got us promoted to div 1 and we sacked him. Now mickey has got us relegated twice and we are as bad as we were before Terry.
I'm not running down Terry he did good of making us competive but we need to get someone now that has fresh ideas and new approach to getting the best players in and then getting the best out of the team.
I can't Remember the last time we beat a top team.
If we don't change e the manager we will not get out of division 3"
Easy to say change the manager, who are you proposing to replace him? And remember, this person will have to want to take this job on. I put it to you there is no one that has any sort of pedigree that would touch it with a barge pole.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 26/10/2020 16:04:42    2301678

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  ""We need someone who bring all the players with him"

We need someone who doesn't exist so. You can't bring in players who don't want to go in. You think lads from Ramor and Castlerahan haven't been approached?

The manager can't make them play inter county football if they don't want to.

The problem in our county seems to be the same as the Irish soccer team had for years - our best player(s), according to the armchair pundits, are whoever isn't playing at that time.

Why would a lad go into the county team? Not going in will elevate his status further than committing ever could!"
How come monaghan and rosscommon can.
I thought micky was the man to do it but he has been disappointing especially this year.
We are worst now then 2 year ago.
While I don't always agree it's the managers fault the last two games were atrocious.
To leave ourselves so open even after The kildare game no game plan same players making the same mistakes.
If we can't change the players something has to give or we will get worst

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 26/10/2020 17:05:28    2301705

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Replying To tom84:  "How come monaghan and rosscommon can.
I thought micky was the man to do it but he has been disappointing especially this year.
We are worst now then 2 year ago.
While I don't always agree it's the managers fault the last two games were atrocious.
To leave ourselves so open even after The kildare game no game plan same players making the same mistakes.
If we can't change the players something has to give or we will get worst"
I totally agree Mickey got things wrong in the last two games and I do have serious reservations about this year. See my earlier post where I laid out the issues I see. It even appears now that the wins earlier in the season were just papering over the cracks.
That said, to think some new manager is going to come in with a magic wand and wave it and all these players will commit is living in fantasy land.
These lads aren't involved because they don't want to be. Nothing to do with Mickey Graham.
We need to get behind the players that are there and referring to players with childish nicknames isn't doing that.
Others have talked in negative terms about players like Conroy and McKiernan. These lads are at least committed and go back year after year and play in whatever position they are asked to.
Performances haven't been great but the least they deserve is some loyalty.
Maybe that's what the Roscommon and Monaghan players get.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 26/10/2020 17:51:59    2301718

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "I totally agree Mickey got things wrong in the last two games and I do have serious reservations about this year. See my earlier post where I laid out the issues I see. It even appears now that the wins earlier in the season were just papering over the cracks.
That said, to think some new manager is going to come in with a magic wand and wave it and all these players will commit is living in fantasy land.
These lads aren't involved because they don't want to be. Nothing to do with Mickey Graham.
We need to get behind the players that are there and referring to players with childish nicknames isn't doing that.
Others have talked in negative terms about players like Conroy and McKiernan. These lads are at least committed and go back year after year and play in whatever position they are asked to.
Performances haven't been great but the least they deserve is some loyalty.
Maybe that's what the Roscommon and Monaghan players get."
I didnt call anyone nicknames.
If this is the best players we can get in then we need a manager who is going to get the best out of them with a structure and game plan.
Micky does not have any.
Or we can we stick our head in the sand hope for the best and everything will be OK

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 26/10/2020 18:22:43    2301728

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Replying To tom84:  "I didnt call anyone nicknames.
If this is the best players we can get in then we need a manager who is going to get the best out of them with a structure and game plan.
Micky does not have any.
Or we can we stick our head in the sand hope for the best and everything will be OK"
Others have though. You have posters coming on here spouting stuff about committed players and then wondering why players in the county won't play for Cavan.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 26/10/2020 19:29:02    2301743

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Replying To cavanman47:  "That's a pretty spot on post."
When you quote Focus on minor and U20 and put a transition platform in place. May I ask are you referring to the development squads or all players out there playing for their clubs.???

I would not bother with the development squads I would look at as many players outside the bubble as well as inside the bubble. This is the only way. The senior players are out there some because of their work cannot do everything like bonding weekends ect. Time to make arrangements to facilitate these players and let's bring in the best. Time this happened.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 26/10/2020 19:40:42    2301747

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Replying To Breffnisbest:  "If we are relegated we don't play for SAM next year!!!"
Might be a B All Ireland but wouldn't it be great to win silverware. Could be first team to win an A & B championship. Also guaranteed Qualifier football, the following season regardless of what division they are playing in.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3099 - 26/10/2020 20:13:13    2301758

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Replying To Jack L:  "Might be a B All Ireland but wouldn't it be great to win silverware. Could be first team to win an A & B championship. Also guaranteed Qualifier football, the following season regardless of what division they are playing in."
With what is playing at the moment they will struggle in Division 3 unless they change their game plan for right now they don't have one. Maybe now the county board might realise Cavan have no pedigree and are not the team of the fifties and forties. Stop thinking you have a divine right to be classed as a top team.

The quality is there, learning how to use them and work with them is another thing.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 27/10/2020 14:24:39    2302036

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "With what is playing at the moment they will struggle in Division 3 unless they change their game plan for right now they don't have one. Maybe now the county board might realise Cavan have no pedigree and are not the team of the fifties and forties. Stop thinking you have a divine right to be classed as a top team.

The quality is there, learning how to use them and work with them is another thing."
So the pedigree isn't there but the quality is.

Making as much sense as usual I suppose

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 27/10/2020 20:34:20    2302263

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Replying To cavanman47:  "So the pedigree isn't there but the quality is.

Making as much sense as usual I suppose"
I'm amazed this website continues to allow his endless ramblings. All of his posts are loaded with his own personal opinions on lads based on his judgement of whether they are nice to him in Breffni or not.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 474 - 28/10/2020 10:22:52    2302359

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