Cavan Forum

2011 to 2017

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I'm not here to run down players far from it but I do question player improvement or the lack of it since 2011.
We were very fortunate to contest and win as many underage titles as we did this past 6:7 years.
BUT..have these players that were involved in 2011/2012 at under 21 level improved as players? If so who has and if not why not?
I remember back when both King and mc cabe started for cavan they were average but through time blossomed into leaders and 2 of the finest we had.
You could see the improvement in them through time .
But I can't see that with the present panel.
Lads that have been involved this past 5/6 years are not improving as players. Their individual games is not improving nor is their team game.
Where are we going wrong?

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/06/2017 12:03:24    2000284

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "I'm not here to run down players far from it but I do question player improvement or the lack of it since 2011.
We were very fortunate to contest and win as many underage titles as we did this past 6:7 years.
BUT..have these players that were involved in 2011/2012 at under 21 level improved as players? If so who has and if not why not?
I remember back when both King and mc cabe started for cavan they were average but through time blossomed into leaders and 2 of the finest we had.
You could see the improvement in them through time .
But I can't see that with the present panel.
Lads that have been involved this past 5/6 years are not improving as players. Their individual games is not improving nor is their team game.
Where are we going wrong?"
McCabe won an all star when he was very young. Hardly average.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 16/06/2017 13:33:20    2000334

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "McCabe won an all star when he was very young. Hardly average."
Read the post. He was very average in 95 when he started out.. but he well improved over the first few years.
Same can't be said of this bunch

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/06/2017 14:19:39    2000358

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it's simple , when the likes of Mc Cabe etc were playing football, individual skill was practiced, honed and developed.
Now its a system and players with individual flair are a thing of the past.
Every club is playing the system and so is every county. Programmed, robotic, boring and terrible to watch. Glorified soccer.
From Minor up to Senior we have no brilliant players, just robots to fit into the system !!

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 16/06/2017 15:09:41    2000385

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He wasn't average in 95

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12199 - 16/06/2017 15:17:03    2000391

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I can see some merit in what you are saying but I would suggest that it's not the individual's ability that we need to be concentrating on but their ability to play within a team instead of playing as an individual. All players have improved in strength and conditioning and stamina (well mostly all).
but there are players with bad habits that have not changed one iota from their underage days. I don't know why with all the coaching this has not been addressed. I believe we have players with good ability all over the field but we are not combining the way we should. Also to go back to the original post, you can't compare players of different eras to Today's. The style and tactics were totally different. Some of the most lauded players of the past were go-it-alone merchants who would not be of much value now either. There were a few exceptions of course and a few whose ability would still get them by at county level but what we need now is players to get the head up and pass the ball otherwise we will be forever also-rans.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 16/06/2017 15:40:04    2000400

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Armagh and Tyrone changed the style of football im early 2000s.. Donegal then went further in 2011.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 16/06/2017 15:40:44    2000401

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Replying To FrDougalMaguire:  "it's simple , when the likes of Mc Cabe etc were playing football, individual skill was practiced, honed and developed.
Now its a system and players with individual flair are a thing of the past.
Every club is playing the system and so is every county. Programmed, robotic, boring and terrible to watch. Glorified soccer.
From Minor up to Senior we have no brilliant players, just robots to fit into the system !!"
Sounds about right!
But players like Ryan mchugh eoin mc high, mc brearty, dean rock, quinlivan diarmuid o Connor , to name but a few have all progressed as individual footballers since their u21 days .
Where as none of our lads are any better now than they were in 2012.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/06/2017 15:50:01    2000403

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Replying To Breffni39:  "He wasn't average in 95"
Oh he was average in 95 compared to 97 and behond.
My point is he improved vastly over time.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 16/06/2017 15:51:56    2000406

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Oh he was average in 95 compared to 97 and behond.
My point is he improved vastly over time."
Every player on the current panel are better players now than when they were 19

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12199 - 16/06/2017 17:04:45    2000428

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In 2011 we narrowly beat Tipperary at home in our last league game to avoid relegation to Division 4. In 2017 we competed in Division 1 of the league.
In 2011 we were beat out the gate in Breffni in both championship matches, the second one by our Dviision 4 neighbours Longford.
Is there some sort of point to this thread?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/06/2017 22:21:55    2000509

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Replying To FrDougalMaguire:  "it's simple , when the likes of Mc Cabe etc were playing football, individual skill was practiced, honed and developed.
Now its a system and players with individual flair are a thing of the past.
Every club is playing the system and so is every county. Programmed, robotic, boring and terrible to watch. Glorified soccer.
From Minor up to Senior we have no brilliant players, just robots to fit into the system !!"
I couldn't have put it better myself.... Gaelic football is been ruined by lazy coaching

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 17/06/2017 07:56:19    2000537

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "In 2011 we narrowly beat Tipperary at home in our last league game to avoid relegation to Division 4. In 2017 we competed in Division 1 of the league.
In 2011 we were beat out the gate in Breffni in both championship matches, the second one by our Dviision 4 neighbours Longford.
Is there some sort of point to this thread?"
In 2011 we were well beat by Antrim in the final round of the league, Tipp beat us in the second round, we won three matches in the whole campaign and only stayed in Division 3 by virtue of other results going our way.

ramor101 (Cavan) - Posts: 289 - 17/06/2017 14:20:38    2000608

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Have lads like mc kiernan clarke McDermott improved as footballers since the played u21..
that's the point of the thread not who we bet and didn't bet.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 17/06/2017 15:18:55    2000624

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To answer your question, yes they have.

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 17/06/2017 17:12:31    2000641

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Replying To ramor101:  "In 2011 we were well beat by Antrim in the final round of the league, Tipp beat us in the second round, we won three matches in the whole campaign and only stayed in Division 3 by virtue of other results going our way."
No. 2011 we struggled big time in the league and beat Waterford but apart from that didn't look like winning a game. We sort of got it together for the last two games. Beat high flying Louth in Breffni thanks to the addition of a few U21s and an injury to their talisman Lennon. Scraped past Tipp in the last game. 2012 Antrim schooled us in the last game in Breffni in the league in a must win game. We finished on 4 points but somehow managed to stay up because Offaly couldn't beat a terrible Tipp side who hadn't won a game up to that.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 17/06/2017 22:02:44    2000773

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Have lads like mc kiernan clarke McDermott improved as footballers since the played u21..
that's the point of the thread not who we bet and didn't bet."
You don't need a thread to know they've improved. Results will have shown our players have improved a great deal. Stability in division 3 followed by promotion. Stability in division 2 followed by promotion. Ulster All star awards, All star nominees, Railway Cup panel members etc. Again a bit of a tedious thread. Who do you think achieved all this if it wasn't done by improving players?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 17/06/2017 22:13:15    2000778

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "You don't need a thread to know they've improved. Results will have shown our players have improved a great deal. Stability in division 3 followed by promotion. Stability in division 2 followed by promotion. Ulster All star awards, All star nominees, Railway Cup panel members etc. Again a bit of a tedious thread. Who do you think achieved all this if it wasn't done by improving players?"
Why you posting on the thread if we don't need one?
Or do we just talk about what you want to talk about.
My point is the 3 players mentioned as an example are no better today than they were in 2012.
I've seen no individual inprovement in any of the 3

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 18/06/2017 08:41:12    2000945

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Why you posting on the thread if we don't need one?
Or do we just talk about what you want to talk about.
My point is the 3 players mentioned as an example are no better today than they were in 2012.
I've seen no individual inprovement in any of the 3"
When we played Monaghan in Clones in 2013 Clarke played a blinder., always available to carry the ball forward and try and create things. I think he has regressed myself or is not being allowed to express himself in that same way because of the system we're playing. Mc Kiernan is not dominating midfield in the way i'd have expected him to do with age and experience but he is still worth his place and is a good man to take a score. Mc Dermott has had a lot of injuries but he's a good footballer and next year i'd expect to see him at his best.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/06/2017 16:22:20    2001190

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Why you posting on the thread if we don't need one?
Or do we just talk about what you want to talk about.
My point is the 3 players mentioned as an example are no better today than they were in 2012.
I've seen no individual inprovement in any of the 3"
You don't have a point and you're talking a lot of crap and back tracking. Initially it was our players and team play hasn't improved. When results shown prove otherwise you start flapping and focus on three players and tell us not to talk about matches we won and lost. Then you mouth something about posters only wanting to discuss what they want to discuss. Stop digging. Anyone who thinks we haven't improved since 2011/2012 is how shall I put it, not the full shilling.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 18/06/2017 20:24:55    2001359

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