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Tomsmith here.
In conversation with some other well versed Cavan Gaa folk the question was raised "" where now for Cavan football"".
It was firmly agreed that Divisional football was the way to go in Cavan..
We must have other players that could be added to the County panel , but how do you get them , or should I say How to find them.
I feel plan for Divisional teams ( like in County Kerry), let all the small junior Clubs supply the best say three , or four footballers and that is the way to go.
A big Club like Cavan Gaels could stand alone and play a combination of these small Country junior Clubs
What do you think??
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 23/06/2023 08:12:46
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To be honest Tom, it's back to basics for most clubs - the Gaels should hold a series of coaching evenings and invite all the clubs in the County to see hows its done. The Gaels started coaching back in the late 70s/80s, some great men giving their valuable time on a Sat morning and during the week in the summer months, but they reaped the rewards for years to come and it wont be long before it comes again. The problem is most other clubs look at short term successes whilst the Gaels have always looked long term, the only other club that would be close to them are Gowna who have followed the Gaels blueprint. You then have other clubs, developing grounds, pitches and indoor areas, but at the end of the day, you can have all the facilities in the world but what matters most is on the pitch!
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 26/06/2023 09:48:53
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Replying To cavanblueman: "To be honest Tom, it's back to basics for most clubs - the Gaels should hold a series of coaching evenings and invite all the clubs in the County to see hows its done. The Gaels started coaching back in the late 70s/80s, some great men giving their valuable time on a Sat morning and during the week in the summer months, but they reaped the rewards for years to come and it wont be long before it comes again. The problem is most other clubs look at short term successes whilst the Gaels have always looked long term, the only other club that would be close to them are Gowna who have followed the Gaels blueprint. You then have other clubs, developing grounds, pitches and indoor areas, but at the end of the day, you can have all the facilities in the world but what matters most is on the pitch!" I wouldn't think the Gaels youth set up is that strong… Knockbride have a very good youth set up for the last number of years and regularly compete at Division 1 level on their own against teams who are picking from 2 or 3 clubs….and that includes Gowna…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 26/06/2023 18:55:26
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Replying To cavanblueman: "To be honest Tom, it's back to basics for most clubs - the Gaels should hold a series of coaching evenings and invite all the clubs in the County to see hows its done. The Gaels started coaching back in the late 70s/80s, some great men giving their valuable time on a Sat morning and during the week in the summer months, but they reaped the rewards for years to come and it wont be long before it comes again. The problem is most other clubs look at short term successes whilst the Gaels have always looked long term, the only other club that would be close to them are Gowna who have followed the Gaels blueprint. You then have other clubs, developing grounds, pitches and indoor areas, but at the end of the day, you can have all the facilities in the world but what matters most is on the pitch!" The Gaels had great men involved in youth coaching
The Reilly bros, Tony Looney, John Fee ,Finan Farrell ,Philip Finnegan to mention but a few. Tony Looney was the driving force to get it all off the ground.
These people gave serious time back in the late 70s 80s and 90s
Not sure they have that calibre nowadays as these men were exceptional and any club would be lucky to have that kind of quality.
Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 27/06/2023 12:18:53
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The success of any underage coaching is not what you win at underage but what you can bring through to your senior squad on an annual basis in order to compete at the highest level. Testament to the Gaels, they have always done that and are always there or thereabouts come championship time. Gowna are another great example of this, they compete on their own at underage where they can, sometimes numbers dictates they amalgamate but they always manage to bring in younger players every 1 or 2 years. The problem with most clubs now are that they are so focused on winning at underage and fielding strongest players, they forget about the late developers and they forget about reaping the long term benefits for their senior teams.
I read a great article about Nemo Rangers in Cork recently, their aim is to develop every underage player, they have no interest in winning underage leagues or championships, if they do, its a bonus, but everyone gets a game. If they have sufficient numbers in any age group, they play those players regardless of ability, they dont call up younger players with greater ability. They've been doing this for 20/30 years, yet they've won 7 All Irelands, 17 Munster Titles, 23 Cork Senior Championships, 5 Intermediates, 14 Under 21s, 11 Minors, so surely this is worth looking at from a development point of view.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 27/06/2023 16:11:25
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Im one of those people from North Meath with Cavan links in the family and Ive always had great interest in Cavan GAA. In my opinion they are among the most hardcore and staunch fans in the game and always great for a chat. I think deep down a lof of people in Meath, especially north of Navan and Kells have a soft spot for Cavan, as long as it isnt against Meath of course ;) Its a shame this Tailteann Cup final couldnt have been Meath - Cavan, a bit of a throwback to the 1940s and 1950s.
The traditional counties in general have to find ways to remain competitive, and I dont think there are any quick fixes as every county has different challenges with structures and clubs and playing numbers etc, but from what I do know of Cavan club football is that it tends to be dominated in trophies by urban teams like Cavan Gaels or Kingscourt just for example. One idea could be to zone the county to focus in on one urban centre per region to maximise the player development from underage right up to senior, so regional areas around Cavan town, Virginia, Kingscourt, Bailieborough, Shercock, Cootehill etc with all of their hinterland clubs feeding in from coaching in those towns, it could be very benificial at underage and slowly youd build a higher standard coming up the age ranges, could take 10/20 years before you see it in Mens level. Of course it would take a hell of a unified county, shared vision, good local relationships and the right voices pressing the benefits, but it is one idea surely worth looking at.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 01/07/2023 18:55:02
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Replying To Young_gael: "Im one of those people from North Meath with Cavan links in the family and Ive always had great interest in Cavan GAA. In my opinion they are among the most hardcore and staunch fans in the game and always great for a chat. I think deep down a lof of people in Meath, especially north of Navan and Kells have a soft spot for Cavan, as long as it isnt against Meath of course ;) Its a shame this Tailteann Cup final couldnt have been Meath - Cavan, a bit of a throwback to the 1940s and 1950s.
The traditional counties in general have to find ways to remain competitive, and I dont think there are any quick fixes as every county has different challenges with structures and clubs and playing numbers etc, but from what I do know of Cavan club football is that it tends to be dominated in trophies by urban teams like Cavan Gaels or Kingscourt just for example. One idea could be to zone the county to focus in on one urban centre per region to maximise the player development from underage right up to senior, so regional areas around Cavan town, Virginia, Kingscourt, Bailieborough, Shercock, Cootehill etc with all of their hinterland clubs feeding in from coaching in those towns, it could be very benificial at underage and slowly youd build a higher standard coming up the age ranges, could take 10/20 years before you see it in Mens level. Of course it would take a hell of a unified county, shared vision, good local relationships and the right voices pressing the benefits, but it is one idea surely worth looking at." Staunch and hardcore, but to their detriment, and unfortunately, they let their expectations run wild every championship year.
There's no quick fix, but it needs to start at underage development at club level and development squad level and get back to basics. If you go to most underage matches nowadays in Cavan, you have coaches playing sweepers (in some cases, I've witnessed two sweepers in underage games), there's too many tactics in place, right up from u13 to u20, so its the case now, that most clubs now are producing athletes rather than skillful footballers.
The other issue is your league and championship structures - you now have Arva playing Division 1 league football, but junior championship, where's the sense in that?
Another big issue is fringe players sitting on a County panel for weeks on end unable to play club football, if they're not on the panel for the upcoming game, release them back to their clubs and stop holding them back.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 05/07/2023 09:30:37
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Arva playing Division 1 and Junior championship is silly. In Tyrone the league position dictates where a team will be the following year for championship.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 05/07/2023 14:06:16
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Arva playing Division 1 and Junior championship is silly. In Tyrone the league position dictates where a team will be the following year for championship." Exactly, and if league status determined championship status, clubs/players might just take the league a bit more serious rather than asking players to come out of retirement to make up numbers.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 06/07/2023 12:43:34
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Speaking to a lad from Monaghan, they play an u18 league (without their County minors), but it allowed those lads who are over 17 but still under 18 to get games under their belt and keep them interested. They then have an u17 league (with their County Minors). People have asked why Monaghan are ahead of Cavan and why their seniors consistently do well, this is the reason, they look after the youth, whilst young lads in Cavan over the age of 17 have quit football in their droves over the years since the GAA introduced the u17 grade and Cavan Co Board were asleep at the wheel, Mongahan kept them interested!
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 13/07/2023 13:07:05
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I hope we don't continue to get bogged down in this forum on management and playing styles. If Cavan aspire to be AllIreland contenders then radical changes to structure are needed. This will not be easy as the traditional links between parshes and club teams are strong. Some counties like Kerry operate a parish club and divisional structure but it is unclear how effective this is.
What is clear is that if you look at other sports the successfull representative teams have large pools of similarly talented players and the feeder teams have similar styles. Contrast NZ rugby with the English structure. Would Ireland rugby be successful without the provinces and in particular the Leinster style.
Sure you do need plan B and C and styles should match the strengths of outstanding players but the key is developing and retaining a broader pool of talent. I suspect their are counties like Tyrone who put incredible energy into their GAA but have too many senior clubs to get a coherent development approach. Anything is possible. Would many people 10 years back seen the emergence of Limerick where the bench now will have several All Stars on match day
Devers (Cavan) - Posts: 11 - 13/07/2023 19:03:14
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Roscommon are trying the Kerry format this year. A similar size county to Cavan. It's a shame players like Jason McLouglin never got to compete in Senior Club championship.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 14/07/2023 14:03:53
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Tomsmith here
I just hope that the new manager is home grown.
By that I mean a Cavan man who will know and understand Cavan football.
A lot of Clubs in Cavan have got managers who could / should step up to the Mark.
I feel that the interview process should involve a series of questions about Cavan football.
For example who in the county that is of County standard that has now got a chance.
I recall when I discovered David Givney and it took it a while to filter down to management Via HOganstand that Donal was County material ... ough what a find., I remember 19th June 2016 when Davis punched that Goal against County Tyrone in the o Duffy terrace side of Clones to earn us a draw
But back to the appointment of the manager, Divisional teams should be top of the priority list.
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 15/07/2023 15:36:58
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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
I just hope that the new manager is home grown.
By that I mean a Cavan man who will know and understand Cavan football.
A lot of Clubs in Cavan have got managers who could / should step up to the Mark.
I feel that the interview process should involve a series of questions about Cavan football.
For example who in the county that is of County standard that has now got a chance.
I recall when I discovered David Givney and it took it a while to filter down to management Via HOganstand that Donal was County material ... ough what a find., I remember 19th June 2016 when Davis punched that Goal against County Tyrone in the o Duffy terrace side of Clones to earn us a draw
But back to the appointment of the manager, Divisional teams should be top of the priority list." Tomsmith here
Look at the County Kerry Final on Sunday, a rural County like Cavan and two Divisional teams in the final.
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 06/11/2023 20:00:58
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Tomsmith here
A few Divisional games now for Lads that have not played County Senior football. and we might get new talent,
If we had a 4 division set up
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 08/12/2023 10:15:55
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Tomsmith here
We must have better talent in Cavan than what was on display in our last league game..
What do we do to unearth the much needed new talent.
I say that some development squads are not producing All Ireland winning senior players .
We need to act soon or we will be the laughing stock of Ulster
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 26/03/2024 23:01:00
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Tomsmith here
In conversation with other learnered friends in the Imperial , I again posed the question about the talent in Cavan and what are we doing to discover the likes of Faulkner and Givney again.
It was offered by the great Mrs T that the success of Cavan Gaels over the years caused this problem, she further offered an explanation that the Gaels were so so great thta new talent never shone and now that theGaels are in transition that the County has suffered .
I am at a loss for words to describe Cavan form on the Field of play
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 11/10/2024 10:05:21
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Replying To tomsmith: "Tomsmith here
In conversation with other learnered friends in the Imperial , I again posed the question about the talent in Cavan and what are we doing to discover the likes of Faulkner and Givney again.
It was offered by the great Mrs T that the success of Cavan Gaels over the years caused this problem, she further offered an explanation that the Gaels were so so great thta new talent never shone and now that theGaels are in transition that the County has suffered .
I am at a loss for words to describe Cavan form on the Field of play" Yea, when your only player and captain is a blow in, you're right to be at a loss when it comes to cavan gaels.
wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1720 - 11/10/2024 11:29:06
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Replying To wishfulthinkin: "Yea, when your only player and captain is a blow in, you're right to be at a loss when it comes to cavan gaels." Anthony Forde, Mickey Lyng, and now Gearoid.
Has their best player ever not been a blow-in??
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5192 - 12/10/2024 02:56:32
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Replying To cavanman47: "Anthony Forde, Mickey Lyng, and now Gearoid.
Has their best player ever not been a blow-in??" Tomsmith here
When you are the |Top team in Cavan that tag brings its own problems with players looking to transfer into the big Club in order to further ones profile.
I feel that if the Gaels took in all the players that want/ wish to transfer into Cavan Gaels that a lot of the small Country Clubs would be denuded of talent.
But the Gaels are bigger than that and the very level of success over the past 20 years speaks volumes for the work done , and only for a few poor decisions made on the field of play the Gaels would have a lot more Cavan Senior Championships .
tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3982 - 12/10/2024 22:19:07
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