Cavan Forum

Anyone can now play intercounty football - Sean Quigley comment

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Sean Quigley comments about very average fit footballer can now make county teams whereas in the past you had to be skillful are correct. In fact i go further i think county coaches now try and coach the skill out of county players and that is why underage football is normally far more enjoyable that senior football but sadly the coaches and stats men are now getting involved at a younger age. The template for a very average footballer to get on a county panel at the moment is

1 Get youself very fit that you can run all day
2 Make sure you can handpass of either side
3 Dont waste time practicing kicking the ball or kicking scores from distance or taking on and beating your man as this is a no no will destroy your stats and you will be dropped as you should only practice drills that have an 85% chance of success ie hand pass to a team mate to either side or behind you ( 100% success rate as they will be unmarked)
4 Dont take on a score unless 85% chance of success ideally a handpassed point
5 Never attempt a long foot pass to a marked forward or you will be issued with a written warning
6 Keep running around regardless of where the ball is really boosts your stats dont worry if all of your actions are contributing nothing to the score board trust your stats they cant drop you

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 16/04/2023 12:44:59    2471178

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Quigley's comments are correct, but they only get a team so far.

The Kerrys, Dublins, Tyrone who have won the last 10 All Irelands between them all did so because they had outstandingly skillful footballers. . .Clifford, JOD, Gooch, Con, Brogan, Connolly, Mannion, McKenna, McShane, McCurry. .

You can throw 15-20 lads into the gym and run the life out of them in Winter with the aim of making them competitive to a point. But they won't win an all ireland. Look at Monaghan. .crying out for years for someone to take the load off Conor McManus and manager after manager so obsessed with keeping them fit in the spring to survive Division 1 that when it came to needing a bit of guile and killer instinct in the heat of summer, they fell short.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 16/04/2023 17:33:00    2471224

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Monaghan have a lot smaller population then those counties and have done very well to be competitive. Cork,Meath and Kildare are much bigger counties and have done nothing of note over the last 10 years

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 17/04/2023 11:43:50    2471344

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Monaghan have a lot smaller population then those counties and have done very well to be competitive. Cork,Meath and Kildare are much bigger counties and have done nothing of note over the last 10 years"
Every team still has a few brilliant footballers but every team now has a few of the programmed very fit very average footballers with very few skills that supporters want to see. Its not their fault they have to listen to coaches and stats men to keep thier place on the panel where as the more skillfull and talented players like Mcvitty and Mackey in the past are confident enough to still play their own game take on players break tackles and take their score from any where in other words they can ignore the bull****. Thats the reason why very poor games can suddenly get very exciting in the last 10 minutes when its do or die players forget all the coaching and just go for it play the game as it should be played like the goal monaghan scored in the last minute yesterday.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 17/04/2023 14:06:48    2471386

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I remember reading about Sean Quigley eating pizza late at night before a qualifier game against Laois. Then on the BBC pod he was giving out about a nutritionist offering to cook a meal at his house.
Quigley is a good player but could have gotten himself in better shape over years

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2824 - 17/04/2023 16:30:28    2471417

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "I remember reading about Sean Quigley eating pizza late at night before a qualifier game against Laois. Then on the BBC pod he was giving out about a nutritionist offering to cook a meal at his house.
Quigley is a good player but could have gotten himself in better shape over years"
Quigley scored 2-08 that day!

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 18/04/2023 11:08:40    2471515

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Most if not all of what Sean Quigley alluded to is 100% correct…. He is only saying what everyone knows as football has got itself into a terrible state… Players are no longer allowed play of the cuff as risk taking is totally frowned upon by management who have numerous stats men scrutinising every move a player makes… Players are like robots who are not allowed think for themselves… And before anyone yaps on about how wonderful the Tyrone/ Monaghan game was , remember it was a free hit for both teams where the result had no impact on either side's participation in the group stage of the Championship…. If they meet again later on in the season I can guarantee both teams will return to type and go all defensive thus boring everyone to bits… I'd say young O Toole or whoever has the same opportunity again will be fisting that goal chance over the bar….or face reprimand…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 18/04/2023 16:50:27    2471631

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Most if not all of what Sean Quigley alluded to is 100% correct…. He is only saying what everyone knows as football has got itself into a terrible state… Players are no longer allowed play of the cuff as risk taking is totally frowned upon by management who have numerous stats men scrutinising every move a player makes… Players are like robots who are not allowed think for themselves… And before anyone yaps on about how wonderful the Tyrone/ Monaghan game was , remember it was a free hit for both teams where the result had no impact on either side's participation in the group stage of the Championship…. If they meet again later on in the season I can guarantee both teams will return to type and go all defensive thus boring everyone to bits… I'd say young O Toole or whoever has the same opportunity again will be fisting that goal chance over the bar….or face reprimand…!"
What's more, the first half wasn't of high quality. It was very 1 sided. And Monaghan have the ref to thank for keeping them within a country mile of Tyrone with soft fresh.

The 1 player who tried to express himself consistently over the 70+mins was Darragh Canavan. He was pulled, tripped, kicked and dragged and it was repeatedly ignored.

The modern approach from referees of punishing a player for over-carrying if he carries the ball into contact is plain wrong in most instances, and 99% of the time is actually caused by a combination of a 3rd man in and a tqckle not aimed directly at the ball, which is against the rules. So if the more positive team is punished for trying to play football, what hope does the game have?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 18/04/2023 19:55:07    2471671

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Quigley's comments are correct, but they only get a team so far.

The Kerrys, Dublins, Tyrone who have won the last 10 All Irelands between them all did so because they had outstandingly skillful footballers. . .Clifford, JOD, Gooch, Con, Brogan, Connolly, Mannion, McKenna, McShane, McCurry. .

You can throw 15-20 lads into the gym and run the life out of them in Winter with the aim of making them competitive to a point. But they won't win an all ireland. Look at Monaghan. .crying out for years for someone to take the load off Conor McManus and manager after manager so obsessed with keeping them fit in the spring to survive Division 1 that when it came to needing a bit of guile and killer instinct in the heat of summer, they fell short."
The very best players do both, Quigley has skill but not the conditioning to match the best players. The best do the conditioning programs and work on their skills (which looks like off the cuff to some) which is why they're at the highest level. Natural footballers like Clifford, Walsh etc wouldn't have a consistent impact in big games if they didn't. All of the players you have highlighted above were skillful but also very well conditioned and careful with possession.

highballin77 (Cavan) - Posts: 5 - 19/04/2023 02:34:31    2471700

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Most if not all of what Sean Quigley alluded to is 100% correct…. He is only saying what everyone knows as football has got itself into a terrible state… Players are no longer allowed play of the cuff as risk taking is totally frowned upon by management who have numerous stats men scrutinising every move a player makes… Players are like robots who are not allowed think for themselves… And before anyone yaps on about how wonderful the Tyrone/ Monaghan game was , remember it was a free hit for both teams where the result had no impact on either side's participation in the group stage of the Championship…. If they meet again later on in the season I can guarantee both teams will return to type and go all defensive thus boring everyone to bits… I'd say young O Toole or whoever has the same opportunity again will be fisting that goal chance over the bar….or face reprimand…!"
Agree 100%.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 19/04/2023 08:01:40    2471703

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I heard the pod and agree with his comments. To a point. Any quality athlete can be thought how to move as ball quickly by handpassing etc. Enough athletes in your team and you'd get away with it to a certain level. But you still need some pure footballing skill (with athleticism) for scoring and defending in some cases. The very top sides need that footballer who can do things with pure skill, along with some athleticism too. It's the difference between the top sides and the lower ones

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 19/04/2023 09:21:09    2471707

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Replying To cavanman47:  "What's more, the first half wasn't of high quality. It was very 1 sided. And Monaghan have the ref to thank for keeping them within a country mile of Tyrone with soft fresh.

The 1 player who tried to express himself consistently over the 70+mins was Darragh Canavan. He was pulled, tripped, kicked and dragged and it was repeatedly ignored.

The modern approach from referees of punishing a player for over-carrying if he carries the ball into contact is plain wrong in most instances, and 99% of the time is actually caused by a combination of a 3rd man in and a tqckle not aimed directly at the ball, which is against the rules. So if the more positive team is punished for trying to play football, what hope does the game have?"
As regards the ref I agree 100%…. I thought he was terrible… And on the tackle I have called for years that when a 3rd player comes in to tackle or surround a player in possession then the player with the ball should always be given the advantage… The referee giving a free against the player in possession leads to frustration among players and supporters while my suggestion would lead to a more open game with far less crowding…… It would make more sense to introduce this and get rid of the absolutely ridiculous 'mark' they brought in which is making a mockery of the game altogether…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 19/04/2023 10:19:28    2471717

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Replying To cavanman47:  "What's more, the first half wasn't of high quality. It was very 1 sided. And Monaghan have the ref to thank for keeping them within a country mile of Tyrone with soft fresh.

The 1 player who tried to express himself consistently over the 70+mins was Darragh Canavan. He was pulled, tripped, kicked and dragged and it was repeatedly ignored.

The modern approach from referees of punishing a player for over-carrying if he carries the ball into contact is plain wrong in most instances, and 99% of the time is actually caused by a combination of a 3rd man in and a tqckle not aimed directly at the ball, which is against the rules. So if the more positive team is punished for trying to play football, what hope does the game have?"
dont know what game you were watching in the first half every time tyrone lost the ball they immediately fouled the monaghan man in possession to prevent a counter attack and held on to him until their defence was in place one Tyrone defender did this on 3 occassions. I hate their cynical play. They played the ref like a violin.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 19/04/2023 15:10:57    2471796

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "dont know what game you were watching in the first half every time tyrone lost the ball they immediately fouled the monaghan man in possession to prevent a counter attack and held on to him until their defence was in place one Tyrone defender did this on 3 occassions. I hate their cynical play. They played the ref like a violin."
We were watching the same game alright but we're talking about 2 different things.

You're right about Tyrone's cynical play in the opposition half. That was rightly pulled.

But the amount of soft frees given to Monaghan in scoring positions vs the fouls on Canavan that went ignored was disgraceful.

At one point towards the end of the first half, Conor McManus got awarded an advantage (questionable if it was a foul or not), he took 5 steps, shimmied left then right then kicked the ball wide. He was given a free from closer to the goals than he took the shot from, and about 10 yards closer than the 'foul' took place!

Tyrone we're far far better in the first half than the scoreline suggested. The ref kept Monaghan in the game.
But if the 2 teams meet in a do or die game in the summer, I know who I'd back. .again.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 19/04/2023 18:39:08    2471850

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Quigley's comments are correct, but they only get a team so far.

The Kerrys, Dublins, Tyrone who have won the last 10 All Irelands between them all did so because they had outstandingly skillful footballers. . .Clifford, JOD, Gooch, Con, Brogan, Connolly, Mannion, McKenna, McShane, McCurry. .

You can throw 15-20 lads into the gym and run the life out of them in Winter with the aim of making them competitive to a point. But they won't win an all ireland. Look at Monaghan. .crying out for years for someone to take the load off Conor McManus and manager after manager so obsessed with keeping them fit in the spring to survive Division 1 that when it came to needing a bit of guile and killer instinct in the heat of summer, they fell short."
Enjoy The Tailteann Cavan man while Monaghan participate for Sam. Their Div. 1 league training and fitness might yet stand them. If Cavan can't take The Tailteann at the second time of asking..., it'll confirm Cavan's place as hovering between a good Div. 3 side and a low/poor Div. 2 side.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 24/04/2023 04:45:03    2473025

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Enjoy The Tailteann Cavan man while Monaghan participate for Sam. Their Div. 1 league training and fitness might yet stand them. If Cavan can't take The Tailteann at the second time of asking..., it'll confirm Cavan's place as hovering between a good Div. 3 side and a low/poor Div. 2 side."
You are correct in alluding to fact that Cavan are rightly in the TC level where they will be competitive amoungst probably 3 or 4 others. However the only teams truly competing for Sam this year are Kerry, Galway, Dublin, Mayo and Tyrone. The rest could be classed as intermediate teams stuck in a senior championship

Calving4Sam (Cavan) - Posts: 85 - 24/04/2023 10:26:16    2473107

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Enjoy The Tailteann Cavan man while Monaghan participate for Sam. Their Div. 1 league training and fitness might yet stand them. If Cavan can't take The Tailteann at the second time of asking..., it'll confirm Cavan's place as hovering between a good Div. 3 side and a low/poor Div. 2 side."
Monaghan are only making up the numbers and unless they can win the Ulster title they are no further on than Cavan really….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 24/04/2023 10:36:35    2473112

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Enjoy The Tailteann Cavan man while Monaghan participate for Sam. Their Div. 1 league training and fitness might yet stand them. If Cavan can't take The Tailteann at the second time of asking..., it'll confirm Cavan's place as hovering between a good Div. 3 side and a low/poor Div. 2 side."
fair play to monaghan on a great display in beating Tyrone and in staying in division i always support the underdog but Cavan still have the same chance of winning sam this year as ye have.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 479 - 24/04/2023 11:07:46    2473138

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