National Forum

Player drop out after Minor

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Had a discussion on this recently and its something that effects every club but impacts on small and rural clubs the most i would think. Now that Minor is regraded to u17, i believe there should be an u19 CLUB ONLY competition and then u20 club and county competition.

Reason been is this, better players from minor will always move up to clubs adult teams, but that might only be 3-4 players, what happens to the rest of your minor squad, many won't move up to u20 (from next year) as its a 3 year age gap and a lot are not comfortable with that so its easier to pack it in. If there is an u19 club only competition lads are continuing to play with most of their teammates from when they were all at u12, most will have played a year above their age group growing up so its not a huge step up. Any players who have moved up to adult football from u17 wouldn't be included in the u19 teams as they have already progressed, this is for the players who drop out.

It's basically a continuation of Minor for another 2 years, to keep the players involved who haven't moved up to their clubs adult teams, help them to develop, have a proper League programme in place for them with a decent amount of matches. If this was introduced Clubs would have a lot more players at their disposal when it would come to u20 and at that stage lads are more mature, are physically strong enough to continue into Junior, Intermediate and Senior setups within their clubs.

I know there are issues with lads in college, work etc when the leave secondary school but i honestly think they would make the effort and continue to train/play if there wasn't that 3 year age gap.

1951andwaiting (Galway) - 11/10/2017 10:14:29    2054576

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From the 1998 brigade we have four players
From the 1999 brigade we have 5 players
Frome the 2000 brigade 6 players playing
Player retention is very very difficult in Dublin for Small clubs , not every club is Crokes or Castleknock
The players mentioned above are the ones who have it to go straight to adult games , those that don't walk .

On another similar topic , at county level we are just about getting our ship in order re what to do with lads who are now 17 have been in the county fold development squads etc. since 13-14 , next couple of months College hurling , with a proposed gathering of the best lads out of minor under 19s getting together in July/August , Dublin player pathway are of the opinion if we let these 17 year olds walk , there's no guarantee they will be around in two three years when needed for under 21

Damothedub (Dublin) - 11/10/2017 11:09:46    2054595

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Above minor, the fixture setup is a complete farce, lads move on and the GAA becomes irrelevant in their lives.
Until the GAA can provide a better product for them, where they can plan a life around training, football, hurling, plan holidays etc, who could blame them for saying f this?
The parish is no longer the most important thing in young lads lives, and we need to do everything to retain them, not everything to sicken them about GAA.

Pinkie (Wexford) - 11/10/2017 12:39:05    2054634

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Replying To Pinkie:  "Above minor, the fixture setup is a complete farce, lads move on and the GAA becomes irrelevant in their lives.
Until the GAA can provide a better product for them, where they can plan a life around training, football, hurling, plan holidays etc, who could blame them for saying f this?
The parish is no longer the most important thing in young lads lives, and we need to do everything to retain them, not everything to sicken them about GAA."
Agree with you 100% especially at club levels with fellas hanging around all summer waiting for games.

Bon (Kildare) - 11/10/2017 13:25:14    2054656

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I really like this idea but there are problems with it.

Meath have ran an under 19 football competition this season.

It only consisted of 3 group games moving on to semifinals and final, the final has been held up for months because of senior championship.

The GAA structure is a bit of a mess with players getting pulled in so many directions.

Other sports don't have the same problem as GAA. Players move between clubs and teams to find their level. People only play for 1 team at a time.

A good 19 year old will either play adult senior level football, or will play at a high level of underage football. They wouldn't be playing both.

In the GAA every team is trying to get a piece of any good player they can. It then has a detrimental effect on the season provided for your regular joes.

So you have burn out for some and then no games for the rest.

That's the problem but I don't have a good answer to it. I don't especially like the Soccer or rugby model where guys move willy nilly between clubs.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 11/10/2017 13:28:31    2054659

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I really like this idea but there are problems with it.

Meath have ran an under 19 football competition this season.

It only consisted of 3 group games moving on to semifinals and final, the final has been held up for months because of senior championship.

The GAA structure is a bit of a mess with players getting pulled in so many directions.

Other sports don't have the same problem as GAA. Players move between clubs and teams to find their level. People only play for 1 team at a time.

A good 19 year old will either play adult senior level football, or will play at a high level of underage football. They wouldn't be playing both.

In the GAA every team is trying to get a piece of any good player they can. It then has a detrimental effect on the season provided for your regular joes.

So you have burn out for some and then no games for the rest.

That's the problem but I don't have a good answer to it. I don't especially like the Soccer or rugby model where guys move willy nilly between clubs."
Excellent points made

Damothedub (Dublin) - 11/10/2017 17:07:46    2054737

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I really like this idea but there are problems with it.

Meath have ran an under 19 football competition this season.

It only consisted of 3 group games moving on to semifinals and final, the final has been held up for months because of senior championship.

The GAA structure is a bit of a mess with players getting pulled in so many directions.

Other sports don't have the same problem as GAA. Players move between clubs and teams to find their level. People only play for 1 team at a time.

A good 19 year old will either play adult senior level football, or will play at a high level of underage football. They wouldn't be playing both.

In the GAA every team is trying to get a piece of any good player they can. It then has a detrimental effect on the season provided for your regular joes.

So you have burn out for some and then no games for the rest.

That's the problem but I don't have a good answer to it. I don't especially like the Soccer or rugby model where guys move willy nilly between clubs."
In Louth GAA players move between clubs willy nilly every year, especially in Dundalk and Drogheda!

DundalkGael (Louth) - 13/10/2017 12:04:36    2055023

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Its a mess! with competitons overlapping, codes competing and absolute anarchy with fixtures. You have teams being knocked out of championships and some teams haven't played yet. You have huge gaps between fixtures imagine training 3/4 times a week for weeks with no idea when a match is going to be played? And of course when players leave MInor and they find themselves on bench or second team and the lure of college social life its a no brainer. GAA is incapable of reform.

arock (Dublin) - 13/10/2017 18:07:09    2055109

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I have noticed for some considerable time now, that this was an issue that needs to be seriously looked at. There is a serious problem facing all rural clubs at the moment. The numbers being retained to play adult competitions is reducing every year. Our younger players are being pulled in every direction. We have an u17 competition being played at the moment and following on from this, our young player is being thrown into a senior set up where he will be probably not be ready for physically and psychologically. Where was the research for this proposal done. In a rural club there will be no bedding in time for this player to develop. Will this young player stay playing senior or Intermediate , no one knows. I like the idea of an u19 competition for clubs only.

61123 (Wicklow) - 18/10/2017 20:33:38    2056099

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Replying To Damothedub:  "From the 1998 brigade we have four players
From the 1999 brigade we have 5 players
Frome the 2000 brigade 6 players playing
Player retention is very very difficult in Dublin for Small clubs , not every club is Crokes or Castleknock
The players mentioned above are the ones who have it to go straight to adult games , those that don't walk .

On another similar topic , at county level we are just about getting our ship in order re what to do with lads who are now 17 have been in the county fold development squads etc. since 13-14 , next couple of months College hurling , with a proposed gathering of the best lads out of minor under 19s getting together in July/August , Dublin player pathway are of the opinion if we let these 17 year olds walk , there's no guarantee they will be around in two three years when needed for under 21"
Damo, you say that it is a problem for small clubs in Dublin but what is the situation with the bigger Dublin clubs? Do they manage to hang on to a higher percentage of their young players? Does the influx of 'country' players into these larger clubs have an impact on their retention of young players?

neverright (Roscommon) - 18/10/2017 23:11:45    2056125

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Replying To neverright:  "Damo, you say that it is a problem for small clubs in Dublin but what is the situation with the bigger Dublin clubs? Do they manage to hang on to a higher percentage of their young players? Does the influx of 'country' players into these larger clubs have an impact on their retention of young players?"
The big clubs hold onto a far higher percentage of players speaking to a lad from one of the biggest clubs a few years back they fielded four teams at minor , as they have so many teams at adult there is always a place a level which will accommodate their level of talent.
That said on the Southside a fair percentage are lost even from the big clubs to both rugby and soccer

Damothedub (Dublin) - 19/10/2017 11:04:07    2056169

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This is a very interesting topic and its difficult to think of good solution. Basically the whole GAA fixtures calendar is a mess. Is it maybe time to consider club and county separately? If a player is on the county team then he doesn't play for the club, that way the clubs can get on with playing their games. I know there are negatives with that, some clubs have more county players than others and fringe players on the county panel would get no games at all. I just thinks its getting to the stage where the county game is all but professional and the clubs need to get on with playing their games. A compromise would be for the county players to come back in for the club championship in August when the All-Ireland is over.

Sorry I know I am going a bit of topic.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 19/10/2017 11:09:04    2056173

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I think this has always been an inaccurate perception. I'd guess there is a uniform level of drop out from U8 the whole way up through U21 to senior/adult. A lot of rural clubs struggle to have more than 17/18 players at minor level and a lot now are amalgamating even for minor so the drop outs happen the whole way up before minor.
There are clubs in Tipp that had 30 players for U14 15 years ago and are now down to 3-4 players (with 3-4 primary schools in the club parish) and have amalgamated with other clubs. So maybe the GAA need to target the younger ages more and get GAA coaches into schools before it's too late.
The numbers are certainly dwindling but not just after minor level.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - 20/10/2017 11:38:01    2056506

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12 posts on a problem killing growth in the game ,122 to talk about strippers , just about says it all really

Damothedub (Dublin) - 27/10/2017 08:43:04    2058468

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As far as I can see,the change over to U17 at Club Minor level has been shelved.

And no one seems to know what's going on ?

Moyle (Tipperary) - 27/10/2017 16:05:44    2058621

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Replying To Moyle:  "As far as I can see,the change over to U17 at Club Minor level has been shelved.

And no one seems to know what's going on ?"
It was never meant to go to under 17 at club level , that was down to individual county boards , Dublin never were going to under 17 but I heard Kilkenny were opting themselves to go under 17 mirroring county . Bit of a mess

Damothedub (Dublin) - 27/10/2017 16:47:40    2058629

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "This is a very interesting topic and its difficult to think of good solution. Basically the whole GAA fixtures calendar is a mess. Is it maybe time to consider club and county separately? If a player is on the county team then he doesn't play for the club, that way the clubs can get on with playing their games. I know there are negatives with that, some clubs have more county players than others and fringe players on the county panel would get no games at all. I just thinks its getting to the stage where the county game is all but professional and the clubs need to get on with playing their games. A compromise would be for the county players to come back in for the club championship in August when the All-Ireland is over.

Sorry I know I am going a bit of topic."
The best I can come up with is for there to be designated intercounty weekends where all grades play.

A player can only play on one intercounty team a weekend.

I'd put the number of intercounty weekends at around 17 and have most teams playing on them.

I'd have u21 and u19 age groups. I'd try to get them out playing 7-8 weekends each. Again every team is playing most weekends.

Still leaves a good number of weekends for club action with county players.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 27/10/2017 19:33:01    2058683

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The best I can come up with is for there to be designated intercounty weekends where all grades play.

A player can only play on one intercounty team a weekend.

I'd put the number of intercounty weekends at around 17 and have most teams playing on them.

I'd have u21 and u19 age groups. I'd try to get them out playing 7-8 weekends each. Again every team is playing most weekends.

Still leaves a good number of weekends for club action with county players."
From a rural club.
4 from 1998
1 from 1999
3 from 2000
4 from 2001
3 from 2002

Future doesn't look great, does it?

LooseCannon (Offaly) - 04/11/2017 19:32:52    2060474

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Replying To LooseCannon:  "From a rural club.
4 from 1998
1 from 1999
3 from 2000
4 from 2001
3 from 2002

Future doesn't look great, does it?"
I think you have to amalgamate. If it's a problem across Offaly they maybe need to bring in regional teams at underage. Get kids playing as many games as possible.

For the regional teams you get out as many teams as possible, so that as many kids are playing as can play. The best players are playing at as high a level as they can rather than messing around playing club football against some players that they are way better than.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 05/11/2017 13:35:34    2060568

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think you have to amalgamate. If it's a problem across Offaly they maybe need to bring in regional teams at underage. Get kids playing as many games as possible.

For the regional teams you get out as many teams as possible, so that as many kids are playing as can play. The best players are playing at as high a level as they can rather than messing around playing club football against some players that they are way better than."
There look to be 19 clubs fielding at under 14 in Offaly. Could you get 8 or 10 good underage teams out of that. The larger clubs plus then regional teams. I think the onus should be on the county board to push for that really. You get 10 regional teams and get them playing a league competition plus a championship at every age grade u12, u13, u14, u15, u16, u17 I think you are going to get your kids playing more and better quality matches. Have underage league games every Monday night say from April to September. U12 and u15 one week, u13 and u16 the next week, u14 and u17 the next week. Games, games, games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 05/11/2017 13:59:44    2060576

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