National Forum

Ban the crowding out of the man with the ball

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was watching Armagh and Tyrone the other day..and many other games in recent times including Dublin & Kerry..this carry on of where a player, generally a forward gains possession and is immediately surrounded, actually boxed in, so much so that when he goes to ground in an attempt to handpass or play the ball away, the defenders follow him to ground crouching to prevent him playing the ball, the next thing the ref blows the whistle and its a free out for over carrying!!!..surely this is grossly unfair, the player has gained possession, and often it is blatantly obvious that he is really trying to play the ball, but is physically PREVENTED from doing so, mostly by physical contact...that is not football, the advantage should be to the player in possession who is trying to release the ball but the sole purposes of the 3/4 men around him is to prevent him from playing the ball, they are not trying to WIN the ball, but force a foul...this is very very obvious and I think it needs changing...any ideas?

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - 09/08/2017 09:18:17    2031442

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "was watching Armagh and Tyrone the other day..and many other games in recent times including Dublin & Kerry..this carry on of where a player, generally a forward gains possession and is immediately surrounded, actually boxed in, so much so that when he goes to ground in an attempt to handpass or play the ball away, the defenders follow him to ground crouching to prevent him playing the ball, the next thing the ref blows the whistle and its a free out for over carrying!!!..surely this is grossly unfair, the player has gained possession, and often it is blatantly obvious that he is really trying to play the ball, but is physically PREVENTED from doing so, mostly by physical contact...that is not football, the advantage should be to the player in possession who is trying to release the ball but the sole purposes of the 3/4 men around him is to prevent him from playing the ball, they are not trying to WIN the ball, but force a foul...this is very very obvious and I think it needs changing...any ideas?"
I suppose it was big bad Tyrone at it again!!!! Jeez man this has been going on in hurling forever - I saw numerous incidents of it between Galway and Tipp and that game was a cracker! To over come this all a player has to do is flick the ball onto a teammate running in support simple as. Putting more rules in place will make the game worse and more complicated to referee.

IrishGael3 (USA) - 09/08/2017 09:35:16    2031448

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "was watching Armagh and Tyrone the other day..and many other games in recent times including Dublin & Kerry..this carry on of where a player, generally a forward gains possession and is immediately surrounded, actually boxed in, so much so that when he goes to ground in an attempt to handpass or play the ball away, the defenders follow him to ground crouching to prevent him playing the ball, the next thing the ref blows the whistle and its a free out for over carrying!!!..surely this is grossly unfair, the player has gained possession, and often it is blatantly obvious that he is really trying to play the ball, but is physically PREVENTED from doing so, mostly by physical contact...that is not football, the advantage should be to the player in possession who is trying to release the ball but the sole purposes of the 3/4 men around him is to prevent him from playing the ball, they are not trying to WIN the ball, but force a foul...this is very very obvious and I think it needs changing...any ideas?"
FPA
I attended the KK/LK hurling game in Nowlan Park and some people were critical of Cian Lynch's performance because he got bottled up by KK players, on a number of occasions after fielding good balls. However an old LK hurler and All Ireland winner pointed that his other forwards were not making themselves available promptly enough for the 'offload'. Maybe therein lies the problem

Oldtourman (Limerick) - 09/08/2017 09:35:22    2031449

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "FPA
I attended the KK/LK hurling game in Nowlan Park and some people were critical of Cian Lynch's performance because he got bottled up by KK players, on a number of occasions after fielding good balls. However an old LK hurler and All Ireland winner pointed that his other forwards were not making themselves available promptly enough for the 'offload'. Maybe therein lies the problem"
That's right. Up to forwards to support each other. Otherwise you will get more teams playing one up front knowing that once he gets possession, defenders must back off. I do agree the onus is on forwards to move the ball more quickly and/or tactics in place to commit more forwards.

poguemahone (Dublin) - 09/08/2017 09:54:09    2031458

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Ban defending altogether I say!

Where's the support is what I always think in those situations. Sometimes there's nothing they can do and it's done effectively by the defending team, but more often than not the support is lazy in getting there.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - 09/08/2017 10:45:15    2031477

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "I suppose it was big bad Tyrone at it again!!!! Jeez man this has been going on in hurling forever - I saw numerous incidents of it between Galway and Tipp and that game was a cracker! To over come this all a player has to do is flick the ball onto a teammate running in support simple as. Putting more rules in place will make the game worse and more complicated to referee."
read the first line of my original post..I mentioned Dublin and Kerry and its all teams...no point is offering support if player is not even allowed to pass the ball, physically held up..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - 09/08/2017 10:49:13    2031478

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Yeah we should just ban defending altogether

890202 (Wexford) - 09/08/2017 11:12:03    2031484

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "read the first line of my original post..I mentioned Dublin and Kerry and its all teams...no point is offering support if player is not even allowed to pass the ball, physically held up.."
Are you saying the defending team are telepathic and know who is going to receive the pass and automatically have 3-4 guys there waiting to surround him - either it was a suicide pass or the receiving player has held onto the ball longer than he should have - either way if his team mates are on their game they will be there to support and a quick pass/flick will stop this not relying on a referee with another stupid rule.

IrishGael3 (USA) - 09/08/2017 11:13:20    2031485

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It is happening regularly now, that a player makes a catch and turns into 3 players. He is being touched by at least 2 of them at any given time (this is illegal as far as I am aware). Yet there is no sanction for this. At one stage of the ross v mayo game on monday, a ross player was bundled over the end line in the 2nd half by 3 mayo defenders. The umpires awarded a wide for this. Am I the only person to pick up on this anomaly of rules?

Donegalman (None) - 09/08/2017 11:21:02    2031492

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Are you saying the defending team are telepathic and know who is going to receive the pass and automatically have 3-4 guys there waiting to surround him - either it was a suicide pass or the receiving player has held onto the ball longer than he should have - either way if his team mates are on their game they will be there to support and a quick pass/flick will stop this not relying on a referee with another stupid rule."
no the defending team need not be telepathic or anything like it..if you get the ball and attempt to run, or are attempting to run, you should not be "surrounded and kept immobile"....very simple really..the defender (or two or three heavens forbid!!) can go into tackle him but NOT surround him impeding movement or pass, such deliberate blocking is a free....why allow the mark then going by your views?...that was brought into to give the high fielder chance/reward for fielding the ball by catching it...before the mark lads were standing around waiting for the catcher to land before crowding him out..same thing...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - 09/08/2017 12:56:07    2031541

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "no the defending team need not be telepathic or anything like it..if you get the ball and attempt to run, or are attempting to run, you should not be "surrounded and kept immobile"....very simple really..the defender (or two or three heavens forbid!!) can go into tackle him but NOT surround him impeding movement or pass, such deliberate blocking is a free....why allow the mark then going by your views?...that was brought into to give the high fielder chance/reward for fielding the ball by catching it...before the mark lads were standing around waiting for the catcher to land before crowding him out..same thing..."
simple solution make the pitches bigger and a point kicked from say 40 meters plus worth two points, more space and makes the crap defensive football tactic a lot less attractive. wouldn't have to be drastically longer just enough to create space and reward the skill of kicking. bigger pitches mean the current trend of massed defense requiring not much more than athletic ability and fist passing to get by would be negated by a players ability to kick and catch. also the reward of two points for a point scored from 40 meters plus would force teams to push up creating more space for your inside forwards and more goals/scores. would also allow for the art of defending to be seen again.

tom80 (Kildare) - 09/08/2017 13:28:07    2031556

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Replying To tom80:  "simple solution make the pitches bigger and a point kicked from say 40 meters plus worth two points, more space and makes the crap defensive football tactic a lot less attractive. wouldn't have to be drastically longer just enough to create space and reward the skill of kicking. bigger pitches mean the current trend of massed defense requiring not much more than athletic ability and fist passing to get by would be negated by a players ability to kick and catch. also the reward of two points for a point scored from 40 meters plus would force teams to push up creating more space for your inside forwards and more goals/scores. would also allow for the art of defending to be seen again."
Making all the pitches bigger is the simple solution!!????

What?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - 09/08/2017 13:43:53    2031564

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If a player is has 3 or 4 players tackling him, he has 2 or 3 unmarked teammates.

m_the_d (None) - 09/08/2017 13:46:04    2031567

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Happens to Aidan O'Shea in every game, surrounded by 3 or 4 defenders with at least 2 fouling him and he either gets done for barging or overcarrying, laughable stuff!

mayoboy1 (Mayo) - 09/08/2017 14:07:39    2031583

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yeah not a huge amount just enough to create more room. has to be some solution, problem as i see it as its possible at the moment with the fitness levels at county to crowd out the space. solution is create more space making it more difficult added to rewarding long range scores, which will force defenders to push out. start with the county grounds, maybe some will have to push the terrace back a small bit but don't see that as a huge undertaking. do you not see the merit in it?
something has to be done as for me personally and a lot of people i know, the joy of watching football is gone.

tom80 (Kildare) - 09/08/2017 14:48:01    2031611

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Replying To tom80:  "simple solution make the pitches bigger and a point kicked from say 40 meters plus worth two points, more space and makes the crap defensive football tactic a lot less attractive. wouldn't have to be drastically longer just enough to create space and reward the skill of kicking. bigger pitches mean the current trend of massed defense requiring not much more than athletic ability and fist passing to get by would be negated by a players ability to kick and catch. also the reward of two points for a point scored from 40 meters plus would force teams to push up creating more space for your inside forwards and more goals/scores. would also allow for the art of defending to be seen again."
Leave the pitches. 13 a side would be an easier way to actualize that idea. 4 less men on the field would open up pockets of space that haven't been available in 15/16 years or more since players in modern times are much fitter than in previous years and therefore cover the ground much quicker. That's one reason why guys get crowded out so fast now.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - 09/08/2017 15:03:11    2031619

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "Leave the pitches. 13 a side would be an easier way to actualize that idea. 4 less men on the field would open up pockets of space that haven't been available in 15/16 years or more since players in modern times are much fitter than in previous years and therefore cover the ground much quicker. That's one reason why guys get crowded out so fast now."
yeah the 13 men might work and easier to implement,but then be less playing time for lads. definitely think the a score outside the 40m worth two would have an immediate impact

tom80 (Kildare) - 09/08/2017 15:20:16    2031629

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Replying To tom80:  "yeah the 13 men might work and easier to implement,but then be less playing time for lads. definitely think the a score outside the 40m worth two would have an immediate impact"
It's not a 15 man team anymore. Benches are getting emptied all the time in the big games. Be plenty play time for lads that are good enough.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - 09/08/2017 15:27:54    2031632

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Replying To tom80:  "yeah the 13 men might work and easier to implement,but then be less playing time for lads. definitely think the a score outside the 40m worth two would have an immediate impact"
It's not a 15 man team anymore. Benches are getting emptied all the time in the big games. Be plenty play time for lads that are good enough.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - 09/08/2017 15:31:30    2031634

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Another advantage to 13 a side is that it would really help rural clubs that are losing players that are moving away to find work.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - 09/08/2017 15:35:26    2031638

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