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The CPA are now looking for another delay to championship restructuring because if Duffy's proposal goes through then it will have to be given a year or two s trail.
But we can have it both ways very easily.
1. Abolish Preseason inter county competitions - play sigerson in January
2. Play round robin provincial championships in Feb and march. (Each province to decide their own formula)
3. Top four teams in Leinster and Ulster plus top three in Connaught and Munster progress to senior championship
4. Cut league numbers to 6 per division for top divisions and seven for lower divisions - play off in April and May - no finals - top two finishers not already qualified through provincial championship win access. To senior championship
Note: provincial championship can be played after league if you prefer
5. Play World Cup style senior and junior all irelands in May - all neutral venues (no exceptions even for Dublin)
6. Top 6 in senior and top 2 in junior play in 2 groups of four as per Duffy's proposal (matches played in June)
7. All Ireland semis and final played in July.
8. Club championship starts in July for all but 4 teams
9. Top 4 counties win byes for their county champions to semi finals of club provincials.
10. provincial club championships to be finished by end of November
11. All Ireland club semis on st Stephens day - final on New Year's Day
Each county gets minimum 12 inter county matches (best get 17) over 6 months (24 weekends)
Best hurling team will get 12 matches so can easily be fitted in amongst non football weekends.
Each county then gets 3 clear months for their county championships
A few more changes to give clubs back their players:
Maximum 3 subs in county football and max match day squad limited to 21 players.
InterCounty league and provincial championships to be played on saturday evenings.
Club leagues to be played February to June and any county player not selected in county match day 21 on the Saturday must be allowed play for their club on the Sunday.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 24/01/2017 04:46:52
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The CPA are now looking for another delay to championship restructuring because if Duffy's proposal goes through then it will have to be given a year or two s trail.
But we can have it both ways very easily.
1. Abolish Preseason inter county competitions - play sigerson in January
2. Play round robin provincial championships in Feb and march. (Each province to decide their own formula)
3. Top four teams in Leinster and Ulster plus top three in Connaught and Munster progress to senior championship
4. Cut league numbers to 6 per division for top divisions and seven for lower divisions - play off in April and May - no finals - top two finishers not already qualified through provincial championship win access. To senior championship
Note: provincial championship can be played after league if you prefer
5. Play World Cup style senior and junior all irelands in May - all neutral venues (no exceptions even for Dublin)
6. Top 6 in senior and top 2 in junior play in 2 groups of four as per Duffy's proposal (matches played in June)
7. All Ireland semis and final played in July.
8. Club championship starts in July for all but 4 teams
9. Top 4 counties win byes for their county champions to semi finals of club provincials.
10. provincial club championships to be finished by end of November
11. All Ireland club semis on st Stephens day - final on New Year's Day
Each county gets minimum 12 inter county matches (best get 17) over 6 months (24 weekends)
Best hurling team will get 12 matches so can easily be fitted in amongst non football weekends.
Each county then gets 3 clear months for their county championships
A few more changes to give clubs back their players:
Maximum 3 subs in county football and max match day squad limited to 21 players.
InterCounty league and provincial championships to be played on saturday evenings.
Club leagues to be played February to June and any county player not selected in county match day 21 on the Saturday must be allowed play for their club on the Sunday." 11. All Ireland club semis on st Stephens day - final on New Year's Day
Tell me your only messing about this...
Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 24/01/2017 09:43:54
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I don't know if P Duffys proposed changes are the perfect solution, if one actually exists. But it certainly seems to be an improvement. I think the logic of the CPA objection is flawed and is the reason why things are such a shambles at the moment. They are looking for the perfect solution.
Lets just get this improvement through and refine it as we go!
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 24/01/2017 14:52:13
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The CPA are now looking for another delay to championship restructuring because if Duffy's proposal goes through then it will have to be given a year or two s trail.
But we can have it both ways very easily.
1. Abolish Preseason inter county competitions - play sigerson in January
2. Play round robin provincial championships in Feb and march. (Each province to decide their own formula)
3. Top four teams in Leinster and Ulster plus top three in Connaught and Munster progress to senior championship
4. Cut league numbers to 6 per division for top divisions and seven for lower divisions - play off in April and May - no finals - top two finishers not already qualified through provincial championship win access. To senior championship
Note: provincial championship can be played after league if you prefer
5. Play World Cup style senior and junior all irelands in May - all neutral venues (no exceptions even for Dublin)
6. Top 6 in senior and top 2 in junior play in 2 groups of four as per Duffy's proposal (matches played in June)
7. All Ireland semis and final played in July.
8. Club championship starts in July for all but 4 teams
9. Top 4 counties win byes for their county champions to semi finals of club provincials.
10. provincial club championships to be finished by end of November
11. All Ireland club semis on st Stephens day - final on New Year's Day
Each county gets minimum 12 inter county matches (best get 17) over 6 months (24 weekends)
Best hurling team will get 12 matches so can easily be fitted in amongst non football weekends.
Each county then gets 3 clear months for their county championships
A few more changes to give clubs back their players:
Maximum 3 subs in county football and max match day squad limited to 21 players.
InterCounty league and provincial championships to be played on saturday evenings.
Club leagues to be played February to June and any county player not selected in county match day 21 on the Saturday must be allowed play for their club on the Sunday." St Stephens day? New Year's Day? You having a laugh?
Duffy circus wouldn't even propose that!
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 24/01/2017 15:27:42
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I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 24/01/2017 15:47:44
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There is a simple solution, shorten the provincial championships, start the qualifiers at the correct weekend and never mind this A and B side of the draw, start all provincial championships on June bank holiday weekend, maybe if you have Gaeltacht players in your panel play your match 1 week earlier (the national Comortas Peil na Gaeltachta is played over June bank holiday weekend ), play your quarter finals over 2 weekends, you can easily play the 8 provincial semi finals on the same weekend (8/9 July), we aren't playing the 8 games in 1 venue, why do the cameras have to be at every game, provincial finals also same weekend 2 weeks before All Ireland quarter finals (22/23 July) (extra week in case of draws), play the 4 All Ireland quarter finals on August bank holiday weekend, semis 2 weeks later 1 on Saturday the other on Sunday, (for 2017 that would be August 19 and 20). Play the 2 final as it currently is hurling on 1st Sunday in September and football 3rd Sunday. This in turn means you (club) can start your club championship in mid April and you have 6 weeks before 1st round of the provincial championship, you could have 3 rounds of the champ played by this stage, by the time the counties have reached the final stage it will be July 22/23rd and there will be around 16 teams out of the All Ireland, plenty of time to play your county quarter finals etc, the main problem is club dates aren't set in stone and players are left in limbo every year
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 24/01/2017 16:11:15
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Do people even read their own suggestions when doing this.
Point 1 was already nonsense. You simply abolish preseason comps. You do realise the charitable reasons for their existence?
RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 24/01/2017 16:30:21
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Realistically provincial championships will not be moved far away from their current place in the calendar.
Nor should they be. Provincial championships coming after the league means there's a prestige competition for all to play for even if they haven't performed well earlier in the year.
Realistically county players wouldn't be bothered sticking around to play inter county football once they're out of the running for Sam.
No one wants a 2nd tier championship for those knocked out of the race for Sam. Again players would rather go back to their clubs/not have to train every night of the week for a competition no-one could give a toss about.
The qualifiers are a huge problem for scheduling matches. They create too many unknowns at the start of the season.
Shortening the inter county season would definitely help. I think shortened to have All Ireland finals at the August bank holidays would leave lots of time for county boards to run good quality championships.
Playing without county players for league is fine, probably ideal. Fringe players get chance to impress and get into a championship team.
County championships would be devalued if county players didn't play it. A huge selling point of the GAA is that the heart of the game is the local club and that the best in the game will play with their local team. As a club player I love getting the opportunities to play with and compete against inter county players.
GAA doesn't really compete with other sports. It is its own little niche. Anyway as it stands the GAA season overlaps the start of the premier league. There's almost always big premier league games clashing with the All Ireland final.
The national league should have more prominence in the season. It's a preseason competition right now. Shadow boxing where teams aren't putting out their best teams and where games are played in crap conditions.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 24/01/2017 16:52:31
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game." Look at rugby is not exactly the best example, the 4 provinces are strong no doubt but it has been to the detriment of the club game. Also it's schools and provincial academies that are producing 90% of the players. I for one would not be in favour of county players not representing their clubs. The intercounty championship runs from May to September, and then county boards run the club championship over 6 weeks not fair on the club or county player.
CurlyFingers (Monaghan) - Posts: 52 - 25/01/2017 00:04:03
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Replying To Awwwwnow: "St Stephens day? New Year's Day? You having a laugh?
Duffy circus wouldn't even propose that!" The exact dates are not important. The reality is there are enough weekends to Run off every competition in the year (maybe not for a slaughneil dual player).
The fixtures will always be a mess because every suggestion that is ever put forward will be shot down by the usual negative attitudes.
No system will ever be perfect but nothing could be as bad as the current arrangements.
How is having the club season lasting 1.3 years and no idea when matches will be played for most of it be better?
Do people not realise the GAA lose 80-90% of their players from minor to U21 because the fixtures are a disaster. The reason lads stop playing GAA sports is because every other sport has a proper set of fixtures.
The GAA is full of people who will shoot down any proposed change when the reality is anything us better than the current set up
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 25/01/2017 05:25:18
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game." My own club could have 2 / 3 players on both hurling and football panels. Thats 6 players we could be missing.
Loughmore Castleiney have 5 players with the footballers and 3 with the hurlers this year. All dual players, thats their 8 best lads, they'd be stuggling to compete at intermediate if they were without these.
On the other hand, I'd love to see it happen because i reckon it could have the opposite effect. As long it it stays amateur you'd see lads staying loyal to their clubs and it could be the finish of the inter county.
Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 25/01/2017 09:06:17
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The exact dates are not important. The reality is there are enough weekends to Run off every competition in the year (maybe not for a slaughneil dual player).
The fixtures will always be a mess because every suggestion that is ever put forward will be shot down by the usual negative attitudes.
No system will ever be perfect but nothing could be as bad as the current arrangements.
How is having the club season lasting 1.3 years and no idea when matches will be played for most of it be better?
Do people not realise the GAA lose 80-90% of their players from minor to U21 because the fixtures are a disaster. The reason lads stop playing GAA sports is because every other sport has a proper set of fixtures.
The GAA is full of people who will shoot down any proposed change when the reality is anything us better than the current set up" The exact dates are important .
Your proposals start in feburary and end on New Year's Day that's a longer season than the present one .
The bottom line is if your going to play round robins and back doors at both inter county and club level championships well you won't have enough weekends in the year.
That's a fact.
The whole system of match fixtures is money.. gate money.
That was even proved last week with 2 Mc Kenna cup semis at 2 different venues an hours drive apart.
Until we go back to knockout championship football or an open draw we are going to have the same fixture problems.
The u21 and provincial championships are knockout , excellent crowd pullers and far more exciting that the present all Ireland series that doesn't come to life until the quarter finals.
Money calls the shots so we are more likely to get more games making things even more congested.
Even CBs now want groups of 4 with 2 qualifying in their club championships.. more games means more more.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 25/01/2017 09:33:27
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game." Make players choose between playing for their club or playing for their county and I would say the majority would choose to play for their club, and rightly so.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/01/2017 10:06:53
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Replying To Awwwwnow: "The exact dates are important .
Your proposals start in feburary and end on New Year's Day that's a longer season than the present one .
The bottom line is if your going to play round robins and back doors at both inter county and club level championships well you won't have enough weekends in the year.
That's a fact.
The whole system of match fixtures is money.. gate money.
That was even proved last week with 2 Mc Kenna cup semis at 2 different venues an hours drive apart.
Until we go back to knockout championship football or an open draw we are going to have the same fixture problems.
The u21 and provincial championships are knockout , excellent crowd pullers and far more exciting that the present all Ireland series that doesn't come to life until the quarter finals.
Money calls the shots so we are more likely to get more games making things even more congested.
Even CBs now want groups of 4 with 2 qualifying in their club championships.. more games means more more." I can't figure out why you think having 2 McKenna cup fixtures at 2 different venues an hours drive apart shows everything is about money? A double header would surely get a bigger crowd but having double headers on pitches in January should be avoided if at all possible.
One of the main reasons for the backdoor was because people felt having players train all winter only to be knocked out after 1 game was unfair. I agree with you though that the best competitions are knock-out ones and would happily go back to that.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/01/2017 10:46:38
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Replying To Awwwwnow: "The exact dates are important .
Your proposals start in feburary and end on New Year's Day that's a longer season than the present one .
The bottom line is if your going to play round robins and back doors at both inter county and club level championships well you won't have enough weekends in the year.
That's a fact.
The whole system of match fixtures is money.. gate money.
That was even proved last week with 2 Mc Kenna cup semis at 2 different venues an hours drive apart.
Until we go back to knockout championship football or an open draw we are going to have the same fixture problems.
The u21 and provincial championships are knockout , excellent crowd pullers and far more exciting that the present all Ireland series that doesn't come to life until the quarter finals.
Money calls the shots so we are more likely to get more games making things even more congested.
Even CBs now want groups of 4 with 2 qualifying in their club championships.. more games means more more." Finally somebody calls it as it is. It's all about money. For CBs and Padraig Duffy. Without acknowledging that as a starting point in an argument about changing the fixture set up for both club and county players would be naive. CPA seem so far to be an honest bunch who genuinely want to change things for the better for club players.
Introducing a round robin at latter stages of inter county championship is all about money. They can dress it up any way they like but the bottom line is more games means more cash.
Most county boards operate similarly. Just on a smaller scale.
I do think that the proposed round robin will actually put some counties under more financial stress. This will mean more strain on clubs.
So all the noble talk of player welfare from Duffy and CBs comes a distant second to financial considerations unfortunately.
Weary (None) - Posts: 249 - 25/01/2017 10:56:14
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There is a role for the CPA, but I suspect the motivation is to reduce the inter county season as much as possible. Bringing forward the All Ireland finals is a good compromise. The most important part of the GAA playing pool is the club player, we would all agree with that. However in any part of life, there will be people who have the talent to progress, and in this case why should the best players be held back?! A club match will never draw the colour, crowds, and media attention of the inter county games. All the fantastic facilities around the country are not built from fresh air! I personally disagree with Duffy's proposals, mainly because of the Quarter final plan. This will not help the weaker counties. However it is a start, like the GPA beforehand, the CPA will reject every proposal until they get what they ultimately want, which is likely an extrembly condensed inter county season. Thankfully whilst there is a lot wrong with the GAA, they understand the elite element of the game is inter county, and they will protect these Championships.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 25/01/2017 10:58:57
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Replying To Soma: "Make players choose between playing for their club or playing for their county and I would say the majority would choose to play for their club, and rightly so." I agree the players would stay loyal to there communities. However I can never understand, why players are almost singled out for wanting to succeed! Most inter county players have choose this sport, have worked hard at there talents, fitness and made sacifices to get to the top. In any other area of life or sport, these people would be lauded for succeeding, but in the GAA, it is, ohh don't forget the club comes first, we have a parish derby in front of a thousand next week! Do not be getting ideas of playing in a Munster final in Killarney for the county☺☺. As I say club players of course would choose there local area, we are all about community, but don't let on that players do not love there county as well, and are not silly enough to know the inter county game is where the elite play. We should be encouraging players to want to succeed, the GAA need a find a compromise to allow this to happen.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 25/01/2017 11:10:22
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game." You completely devalue the county championship if its played without county players , best team in county will not win championship , best team will not get to progress into provincial etc
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 25/01/2017 11:11:41
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Replying To Damothedub: "You completely devalue the county championship if its played without county players , best team in county will not win championship , best team will not get to progress into provincial etc" The club championships need to go knockout in every county.
The provincial club is knockout so why not the county club?
There are far too many meaningless , round robin, back door , relegation playoff club championship matches going on all around the county with nobody at them all because most counties are strapped for cash with abnormal outgoings.
Until that happens and the provincial championships are condensed from 3 months to 7/8 weeks well we going nowhere .
That should be the aim of the CPA.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 25/01/2017 12:04:14
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Standard Irish responses here complain about everything and everyone. From what I can see here a lot of posters here would like to abolish the intercounty championship. That's fair enough but I bet you most of you couldn't tell me who won your club provincial in 2014 without the help of google. Most of you could tell me who won the inter county provincial championships.
Intercounty football and hurling is the best product of the gaa. It's the most marketable. It's what brings the money into the coffers that keeps the organisation going. Why would we destroy it?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/01/2017 12:50:12
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