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The Dublin Kerry match signalled the end of the significance of the team announcements. The confusion almost soured one of the greatest contests we have seen.
I always used to look forward to hearing news of the teams but obviously there is no sense in handing your opponents an advantage so that couldn't last.
I would agree with those who suggest the actual starting teams should be announced officially 48 hours before throw in.
It adds to the build up for genuine fans.
Any changes should incur a substituton.
SirStrawHat (Dublin) - Posts: 58 - 09/09/2016 22:11:21
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Replying To SirStrawHat: "The Dublin Kerry match signalled the end of the significance of the team announcements. The confusion almost soured one of the greatest contests we have seen.
I always used to look forward to hearing news of the teams but obviously there is no sense in handing your opponents an advantage so that couldn't last.
I would agree with those who suggest the actual starting teams should be announced officially 48 hours before throw in.
It adds to the build up for genuine fans.
Any changes should incur a substituton." It's been like that for quite a while.
I'd be in favour of teams get submitted and any changes being counted as a sub. 48 hours before is maybe early though. Night before or morning of would probably work.
I actually don't think it's that much of an advantage anyway either.
Kerry will have prepared for Dublin last week, they'll have had a fair idea on who'd be playing in the lead up.
I can't see Fitzmaurice running around agitated shouting "sh1t Bastick's starting what are we going to do? Phew at least they're not going with McManamon the fools".
The whole practice is just silly, they don't do it in other sports either.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 10/09/2016 19:08:23
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A shameful practice that the Gaa turn a blind eye to, throwing paltry fines at counties that are usually overturned on appeal., it's hardly worth while spending €5 to €10 on a programme any more as the teams bear no relevance to the teams that line out. Don't publish teams just publish the panels 1 to 24 & leave it at that as it's disingenuous to charge people for something that's not factual. At this stage teams know & study everything so have a fair idea of what opposition will line out, so it's rather a futile exercise. Maybe Congress will change it in a decade or two.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 10/09/2016 20:05:45
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Completely disagree if anything it adds to the build up as it keeps you guessing right up until the teams are announced during the warm up and adds to the pre match as you are looking at the screen waiting to see who's in and out.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/09/2016 21:02:49
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Replying To hill16no1man: "Completely disagree if anything it adds to the build up as it keeps you guessing right up until the teams are announced during the warm up and adds to the pre match as you are looking at the screen waiting to see who's in and out." Fair enough then your entitled to that point, but it neglects the fact that the Gaa are charging for a programme under false pretences as the teams listed are never as what lines out, why have programmes or sell them on the basis that they have the team line ups. It would be better to have no programme & put team line ups & officials on the big screen as you suggest. Point being that it's not nice being fleeced for a programme on top of ticket, grub, transport etc when it doesn't do what it says on the tin.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 10/09/2016 21:59:51
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In no other sport are teams named days before a game. It's a ridiculous expectation that GAA fans have. The purpose of a team list in a programme is to match a name with a number. It shouldn't matter what numbers starting players have as long as the programme matches the number they have on their back. I wouldn't care if Colm Cooper was wearing 56 as long as the programme matches what he was wearing. As far as i know managers send in a list of players from 1-26, so it is actually the media which assume that 1-15 will start.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 10/09/2016 22:30:20
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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Fair enough then your entitled to that point, but it neglects the fact that the Gaa are charging for a programme under false pretences as the teams listed are never as what lines out, why have programmes or sell them on the basis that they have the team line ups. It would be better to have no programme & put team line ups & officials on the big screen as you suggest. Point being that it's not nice being fleeced for a programme on top of ticket, grub, transport etc when it doesn't do what it says on the tin." I have never bought a programme in my life haha
Nobody makes you but one though it's your own choice to buy it.
I don't buy food in stadiums either as its never good quality, they still sell it though as people will but it do you get what I mean.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/09/2016 22:46:10
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Replying To 890202: "In no other sport are teams named days before a game. It's a ridiculous expectation that GAA fans have. The purpose of a team list in a programme is to match a name with a number. It shouldn't matter what numbers starting players have as long as the programme matches the number they have on their back. I wouldn't care if Colm Cooper was wearing 56 as long as the programme matches what he was wearing. As far as i know managers send in a list of players from 1-26, so it is actually the media which assume that 1-15 will start." Arent they named days before in rugby?
Anyway i agree, there should be no onus on managers to name the team days before.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 10/09/2016 22:48:22
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Replying To 890202: "In no other sport are teams named days before a game. It's a ridiculous expectation that GAA fans have. The purpose of a team list in a programme is to match a name with a number. It shouldn't matter what numbers starting players have as long as the programme matches the number they have on their back. I wouldn't care if Colm Cooper was wearing 56 as long as the programme matches what he was wearing. As far as i know managers send in a list of players from 1-26, so it is actually the media which assume that 1-15 will start." It's not the media who assume 1 to 15. The rule was changed after a Congress in Cavan, counties have to submit their official team line out 1 to 15 & a max of 11 additional panel members for a total panel of 26 which has to be sent in to the committee in charge by Thurs morn for a w'end game or if late a fine of €1000 or a one match sideline ban for the manager. Simple answer name your squad numbered 1 to 26 in the programme, no changes allowed & no 1 to 15 & stop pis#ing off people.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 10/09/2016 23:04:28
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Replying To moc.dna: "It's not the media who assume 1 to 15. The rule was changed after a Congress in Cavan, counties have to submit their official team line out 1 to 15 & a max of 11 additional panel members for a total panel of 26 which has to be sent in to the committee in charge by Thurs morn for a w'end game or if late a fine of €1000 or a one match sideline ban for the manager. Simple answer name your squad numbered 1 to 26 in the programme, no changes allowed & no 1 to 15 & stop pis#ing off people." They have to send in their 26 panel but they don't have to be in starting order and subs. The reason teams are named in run up to games is part of media rights deals the gaa have with newspaper and so on as a form of advertising, but the actual starting 15s don t have to be handed in until 15-20 minutes before throw in in the ground like any club game teamsheet.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/09/2016 10:23:59
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To be honest I also think it's unfair on managers and players when you think have a match on a Sunday and the panel having to be named on Thursday, there's players who might be touch and go if they are fully for or recovering from an injury.
That's a long way out from Match time to be forcing the hand of management and if they name a player and he isn't ready on time you then have a perfectly fit replacement who looses out on the chance to be involved with their county.
in most cases you wouldn't know a players right or not till the day before the game if they can pass a fitness test so it's not allowing a player in that position every possible chance of getting themselves right.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/09/2016 10:36:47
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Team announcements mean anything?
The Dublin Kerry match signalled the end of the significance of the team announcements. The confusion almost soured one of the greatest contests we have seen.
I always used to look forward to hearing news of the teams but obviously there is no sense in handing your opponents an advantage so that couldn't last.
I would agree with those who suggest the actual starting teams should be announced officially 48 hours before throw in.
It adds to the build up for genuine fans.
Any changes should incur a substituton.
SirStrawHat (Dublin) - Posts:21 - 09/09/2016 22:11:21I don't think any changes should incur a substitution. Considering GAA managers think its cool/the right thing not to simply name a team and not make any changes then they should just give all players a squad number and then in the programme/media each player has same number while they are in the squad.
It's been like that for quite a while.
I'd be in favour of teams get submitted and any changes being counted as a sub. 48 hours before is maybe early though. Night before or morning of would probably work.
I actually don't think it's that much of an advantage anyway either.
Kerry will have prepared for Dublin last week, they'll have had a fair idea on who'd be playing in the lead up.
I can't see Fitzmaurice running around agitated shouting "sh1t Bastick's starting what are we going to do? Phew at least they're not going with McManamon the fools".
The whole practice is just silly, they don't do it in other sports either.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:904 - 10/09/2016 19:08:23Wouldn't count any changes as a sub. Just give players a number at start of the year/when they join county squad and they keep it for all games.
Completely disagree if anything it adds to the build up as it keeps you guessing right up until the teams are announced during the warm up and adds to the pre match as you are looking at the screen waiting to see who's in and out.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11007 - 10/09/2016 21:02:49Ridiculous argument. It doesn't help promo of game and helps the build up if you ca actually discuss who players will line up against and not the messy set up that exists now
In no other sport are teams named days before a game. It's a ridiculous expectation that GAA fans have. The purpose of a team list in a programme is to match a name with a number. It shouldn't matter what numbers starting players have as long as the programme matches the number they have on their back. I wouldn't care if Colm Cooper was wearing 56 as long as the programme matches what he was wearing. As far as i know managers send in a list of players from 1-26, so it is actually the media which assume that 1-15 will start.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts:528 - 10/09/2016 22:30:20Teams are named days in advance of a game in many sports. Rugby does it and it doesn't have the problems GAA has.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/09/2016 12:08:00
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To be honest I also think it's unfair on managers and players when you think have a match on a Sunday and the panel having to be named on Thursday, there's players who might be touch and go if they are fully for or recovering from an injury.
That's a long way out from Match time to be forcing the hand of management and if they name a player and he isn't ready on time you then have a perfectly fit replacement who loses out on the chance to be involved with their county.
in most cases you wouldn't know a players right or not till the day before the game if they can pass a fitness test so it's not allowing a player in that position every possible chance of getting themselves right.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11007 - 11/09/2016 10:36:47I do not see in any way how its unfair on players and coaches for a team to be have to be named on a Thursday and published. The team will be decided bar last minute emergencies so naming it isn't a problem. There can always be changes due to late injuries but that doesn't mean the team cant be named. It isn't at all a long time out to name a team 2-3 days in advance.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/09/2016 12:08:30
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "To be honest I also think it's unfair on managers and players when you think have a match on a Sunday and the panel having to be named on Thursday, there's players who might be touch and go if they are fully for or recovering from an injury.
That's a long way out from Match time to be forcing the hand of management and if they name a player and he isn't ready on time you then have a perfectly fit replacement who loses out on the chance to be involved with their county.
in most cases you wouldn't know a players right or not till the day before the game if they can pass a fitness test so it's not allowing a player in that position every possible chance of getting themselves right.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11007 - 11/09/2016 10:36:47I do not see in any way how its unfair on players and coaches for a team to be have to be named on a Thursday and published. The team will be decided bar last minute emergencies so naming it isn't a problem. There can always be changes due to late injuries but that doesn't mean the team cant be named. It isn't at all a long time out to name a team 2-3 days in advance." If you read what I said you will see I don't mean the starting team I ment naming a panel half a week in advance. If a player is recovering from an injury they should be given every chance to recover up until the team sheet has to be handed in and the way it works now there can be no changes to the match panel after the Thursday, which is unfair on the player trying to regain fitness, the player who could have replaced him if he is named and looses his battle to be ready in time and the management who are down an option.
the media shouldn't be out ahead of players in this situation. The gaa is amature organisation and the media treat it with contempt most of the time in regards lesser popular sports in this country that are professional so having a full compliment for any manager and giving a player a chance to be part of the match day panel like they have trained hard for should be well ahead of a few lines in a national newspaper.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/09/2016 15:25:03
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If you read what I said you will see I don't mean the starting team I ment naming a panel half a week in advance. If a player is recovering from an injury they should be given every chance to recover up until the team sheet has to be handed in and the way it works now there can be no changes to the match squad after the Thursday, which is unfair on the player trying to regain fitness, the player who could have replaced him if he is named and looses his battle to be ready in time and the management who are down an option.
the media shouldn't be out ahead of players in this situation. The gaa is amature organisation and the media treat it with contempt most of the time in regards lesser popular sports in this country that are professional so having a full compliment for any manager and giving a player a chance to be part of the match day squad like they have trained hard for should be well ahead of a few lines in a national newspaper.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11008 - 11/09/2016 15:25:03A player can still be given all chances to recover and they can be named in the team days in advance and simply pulled. Teams should be named in advance if you want to promote the game.
The GAA is AMATUER but all parts are pro in all but name and work like any professional team so should be treated to the same level. Media doesn't treat GAA with contempt.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/09/2016 15:42:39
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how can they be given every chance to recover when they have to name a panel nearly half week in advance????
plus if you name them in the panel on the thursday you cannot replace them.
therefore your costing some guy who has trained all year there chance of getting onto the match day panel
just to suit a few newspapers who when the national league is on wouldnt even bother printing the team sheets never mind writing up about them.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/09/2016 16:16:41
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how can they be given every chance to recover when they have to name a squad nearly half week in advance????
plus if you name them in the squad on the thursday you cannot replace them.
therefore your costing some guy who has trained all year there chance of getting onto the match day squad
just to suit a few newspapers who when the national league is on wouldnt even bother printing the team sheets never mind writing up about them.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11009 - 11/09/2016 16:16:41 Have you ever seen most other sports in the world? And they cope.
It is much better for marketing and pr and for supporters if the teams are named in advance. Teams who have to rely on mind games around the jersey number a player wears would be better off preparing themselves better and not messing with that shite.
You can have changes in that time nobody is saying you cant but you get penalised. A player should only be pulled from an announced team if injured and unable to play in the game.
This isn't just to suit newspapers. Its for the fans, for tv. for better coverage of games
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/09/2016 16:31:21
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "how can they be given every chance to recover when they have to name a squad nearly half week in advance????
plus if you name them in the squad on the thursday you cannot replace them.
therefore your costing some guy who has trained all year there chance of getting onto the match day squad
just to suit a few newspapers who when the national league is on wouldnt even bother printing the team sheets never mind writing up about them.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11009 - 11/09/2016 16:16:41 Have you ever seen most other sports in the world? And they cope.
It is much better for marketing and pr and for supporters if the teams are named in advance. Teams who have to rely on mind games around the jersey number a player wears would be better off preparing themselves better and not messing with that shite.
You can have changes in that time nobody is saying you cant but you get penalised. A player should only be pulled from an announced team if injured and unable to play in the game.
This isn't just to suit newspapers. Its for the fans, for tv. for better coverage of games" again the gaa is not like other pro sports its not about money so pr and advertising and so on shouldnt take precident over players and for the most part the gaa are very good at that, bu this case is they are letting media dictate.
at top level of any sport its the little things that seperate the teams, knowing well in advance what the opposition team is would certainly be silly, keeping the opposition in suspense is very much an advantage in certain games to certain teams and can be worth a couple of points or even a goal from the off to a team. how can you then decide if a player is actually injured, the team doctors work for the team so they could just lie easily so thats a fairytale world you want there.
it suits other sports because the revnue is needed to pay players, so its a neccessity for that reason.
its far more debate and intriguing not knowing the teams right up until 15 minutes to throw in and adds to the atmosphere in the team announcements.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/09/2016 17:08:11
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Team announcements mean anything?
The Dublin Kerry match signalled the end of the significance of the team announcements. The confusion almost soured one of the greatest contests we have seen.
I always used to look forward to hearing news of the teams but obviously there is no sense in handing your opponents an advantage so that couldn't last.
I would agree with those who suggest the actual starting teams should be announced officially 48 hours before throw in.
It adds to the build up for genuine fans.
Any changes should incur a substituton.
SirStrawHat (Dublin) - Posts:21 - 09/09/2016 22:11:21I don't think any changes should incur a substitution. Considering GAA managers think its cool/the right thing not to simply name a team and not make any changes then they should just give all players a squad number and then in the programme/media each player has same number while they are in the squad.
It's been like that for quite a while.
I'd be in favour of teams get submitted and any changes being counted as a sub. 48 hours before is maybe early though. Night before or morning of would probably work.
I actually don't think it's that much of an advantage anyway either.
Kerry will have prepared for Dublin last week, they'll have had a fair idea on who'd be playing in the lead up.
I can't see Fitzmaurice running around agitated shouting "sh1t Bastick's starting what are we going to do? Phew at least they're not going with McManamon the fools".
The whole practice is just silly, they don't do it in other sports either.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:904 - 10/09/2016 19:08:23Wouldn't count any changes as a sub. Just give players a number at start of the year/when they join county squad and they keep it for all games.
Completely disagree if anything it adds to the build up as it keeps you guessing right up until the teams are announced during the warm up and adds to the pre match as you are looking at the screen waiting to see who's in and out.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts:11007 - 10/09/2016 21:02:49Ridiculous argument. It doesn't help promo of game and helps the build up if you ca actually discuss who players will line up against and not the messy set up that exists now
In no other sport are teams named days before a game. It's a ridiculous expectation that GAA fans have. The purpose of a team list in a programme is to match a name with a number. It shouldn't matter what numbers starting players have as long as the programme matches the number they have on their back. I wouldn't care if Colm Cooper was wearing 56 as long as the programme matches what he was wearing. As far as i know managers send in a list of players from 1-26, so it is actually the media which assume that 1-15 will start.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts:528 - 10/09/2016 22:30:20Teams are named days in advance of a game in many sports. Rugby does it and it doesn't have the problems GAA has." I don't think this is a huge issue to be honest.
If you were to try to enforce accurate team sheets I think you do need a deterrent, that's the only reason I'd promote teams having to use a sub to make a change.
Of all the problems in the GAA I think this is pretty low down my list though.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 11/09/2016 19:52:05
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