Just felt I needed to post something while watching the Donegal v Derry match and how poor Duffys reffing was.
Two soft first half frees that were scored and a penalty missed against Derry should be mentioned.
Can't be top level ref and makes some strange calls fairly regularly.I know its a difficult job but considering commitment of players it needs to be better.
Don't want to ruin the game either but may be time for some form of video ref introduction.
Errors could be spotted in seconds and would be aid to referees who have little chance of keeping tabs on everything that's happening while umpires do little or nothing to help mostly.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 31/01/2015 20:34:06    1688491

Just thinking the same, two truly awful teams, a dire game, but Duffy's calls or non-calls were strange, maybe he has a personalised customised set of rules.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 31/01/2015 20:36:50    1688492

31/01/2015 20:34:06 Dubh_linn
Just felt I needed to post something while watching the Donegal v Derry match and how poor Duffys reffing was.
Two soft first half frees that were scored and a penalty missed against Derry should be mentioned.
Can't be top level ref and makes some strange calls fairly regularly. I know its a difficult job but considering commitment of players it needs to be better.
Don't want to ruin the game either but may be time for some form of video ref introduction.
Errors could be spotted in seconds and would be aid to referees who have little chance of keeping tabs on everything that's happening while umpires do little or nothing to help mostly. Why not improve umpires etc before looking at introduction of a video referee. And a video referee can only help if a referee asks them. Why go to that cost when you could, much more easily, just improve training and Long term development of your match officials

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 31/01/2015 21:08:15    1688511

ormondbannerman its not training umpires or linesmen its giving them the power to indicate a foul, only a referee can decide if its a foul in gaa, unlike soccer or rugby where the touch judge or linesman can flag up a foul themselves.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 01/02/2015 10:28:27    1688586

31/01/2015 21:08:15
ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 9177

1688511
31/01/2015 20:34:06 Dubh_linn
Just felt I needed to post something while watching the Donegal v Derry match and how poor Duffys reffing was.
Two soft first half frees that were scored and a penalty missed against Derry should be mentioned.
Can't be top level ref and makes some strange calls fairly regularly. I know its a difficult job but considering commitment of players it needs to be better.
Don't want to ruin the game either but may be time for some form of video ref introduction.
Errors could be spotted in seconds and would be aid to referees who have little chance of keeping tabs on everything that's happening while umpires do little or nothing to help mostly. Why not improve umpires etc before looking at introduction of a video referee. And a video referee can only help if a referee asks them. Why go to that cost when you could, much more easily, just improve training and Long term development of your match officials
Ormondbanner ,I don't buy the argument that there would be any significant cost as we could see thirty seconds after the event that there wasn't an issue on TV replays. To introduce a replay facility wouldn't cost a lot and like I said if you were to loose a league final or championship game after months of hard graft and sacrifice I think you would be mighty unhappy that you weren't worthy of this investment in the game.
As for leaving it to the referee to ask for assistance, I wouldn't think a referee would mind if he got a vital call confirmed rather than take the blame for costing a team a match or worse, silverware.
Or another option would be to allow teams 3 or so challenges to a refs decision and go to video ref.
There would also more than likely be less of an intimidation factor for refs and this could help recruit more to the game.
I think by now the GAA would have improved officials training standards if the were going to do so.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 01/02/2015 10:31:24    1688587

There is definitely an argument to be made for having a video ref, especially in relation to technical fouls where the interpretations of the rules are not so subjective. For example, in the Cork v Dublin game yesterday, there was a debate as to whether Cork's goal was a square ball or not. To be fair, it was very difficult to tell in real time whether this was the case and the ref went in and talked to his umpire so he did his best on this occasion. The debate was whether the player who got the final touch to the ball i) was in the square before the original shot came in and ii) whether he got a touch to the ball before it crossed the line. With the aid of replays and paused TV it became apparent that he was (just) in the square when the ball was kicked so the goal should have been disallowed (disclaimer - this decision did not affect my enjoyment of a very open game in which I felt Cork probably shaded the play and the ref / umpire couldn't realistically be expected to make a precise judgement call on the incident). However, this incident occurred in a low key league game where both teams were just kicking off their campaigns and there's plenty more points to play for so there was very little ire afterwards. However, incidents not dissimilar to this have occurred in more high profile matches such as Alan Brogan's goal against Meath in the Leinster Championship of 2007, Tomas O'Connor's disallowed goal versus Donegal in the quarter final of 2011, or Benny Coulter's goal versus Kildare in the semi-finals in 2010, to name a few - all of which were proven to be incorrect technical calls by the ref / umpire when replayed and all of which significantly influenced the result of the game in question. These were pivotal moments and a video ref would have corrected these errors (probably - I've disagreed with the TMO in rugby on a few occasions).

So the pros to introducing a TMO would include i) more accurate rulings on certain indisputable fouls and ii) less pressure on refs to make the big calls etc.

The cons would include i) delays and disruptions during the game while the validity of the incident was checked, ii) increased costs that would make it difficult to implement such a technology across all senior inter-county games, never mind in club matches, iii) disputes as to the accuracy of calls (as above, from watching rugby matches with friends and / or family, there's not always consensus as to whether the TMO was correct), iv) disputes as to when the rule should be used (i.e. just for goals or will it include penalty decisions, sendings off, points etc.), v) disputes as to the letter-of-the-law application of the rules (e.g. where there's a technical foul, such as over carrying, that is common but rarely penalised in the lead up to the incident in question - can the score be invalidated by this?) and vi) you can be sure that managers will find a way to manipulate this to their advantage regarding disrupting / slowing down a game to their side's advantage or influencing future decisions regarding replays (e.g. appealing results etc.), allocation of refs (e.g. if a previous ref has "wronged" them) or getting sympathetic treatment in future games.

While it would be nice to have the TMO to help get decisions right, I just can't see it happening in the near future (and Paraic Duffy said as much on the radio this morning so the powers that be have no current appetite for this). Perhaps greater powers for umpires and linesmen to bring items to the referee's attention would be the best way forward, as has previously been suggested.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 02/02/2015 16:39:00    1689297

I was watching the deferred highlights of the Cork/Dublin game on TG4 yesterday. It struck me how far the ref was behind the play. When you think of it most are approaching middle age trying to keep up with elite athletes. Even younger refs struggle
Why not have two referees so they can keep up with play. a tmo would slow the game down. Its ok in Rigby as it is a slow game anyway and referee can keep up with play and only needs tmo to confirm a try. It doesnt really hold things up too much as they take half a day to kick a conversion or re start a game.

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 02/02/2015 16:56:26    1689315

David Coldrick from meath who is supposedly another top ref had an absolute mare in the Tipp armagh game, he didnt cost us the game as we had the wining of if late on but he heavily contributed towards it, that being said the sending off for us was the correct decision.

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 02/02/2015 18:00:51    1689354

I know it would be a mammoth leap for the GAA to go this route but it would serve the players far better than what has been the case for so long. Yes it's an amateur sport but gone are the days of training like amateurs. Don't think the head honchos in headquarters have a proper understanding of what level the players are at so how could they bring in anything radical that would move things forward to the present day requirements.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 04/02/2015 13:39:04    1689989

02/02/2015 16:56:26
StirringIt
County: Cavan
Posts: 175

1689315
I was watching the deferred highlights of the Cork/Dublin game on TG4 yesterday. It struck me how far the ref was behind the play. When you think of it most are approaching middle age trying to keep up with elite athletes. Even younger refs struggle
Why not have two referees so they can keep up with play. a tmo would slow the game down. Its ok in Rigby as it is a slow game anyway and referee can keep up with play and only needs tmo to confirm a try. It doesnt really hold things up too much as they take half a day to kick a conversion or re start a game.


And thats in football. Imagine what hurling refs are faced with.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 04/02/2015 14:11:12    1690004

Another pathetic refereeing display.
How many more of these fiascos do we have to endure.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 07/02/2015 21:23:51    1691022

The refereeing in the Laois v Cavan match tonight was terrible. Gave Cavan nothing.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 07/02/2015 21:33:55    1691026

07/02/2015 21:23:51 Dubh_linn
Another pathetic refereeing display.
How many more of these fiascos do we have to endure. What was pathetic(don't know of game/not seen it) and what would you propose as a solution to poor refereeing

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 07/02/2015 21:40:23    1691030

Well Obm there were a number of instances in the game which was played at close to championship standard that just were not good enough and below what players deserve. This happens week in week out and not only in Dublin games by the way.
Indeed if you watch the match I think it would probably make more sense.
As for suggestions on improving referring , I don't profess to have a foolproof solution and my suggestion above will probably never happen but something needs to be done to improve standards in general considering commitment of players in all counties today.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 08/02/2015 10:03:44    1691062

Some of Deegan's decisions were bizarre. I shall leave it at that. Not even biased just bizarre. Not fair to the 30 players of any teams to be trying to guess exactly what rules apply to the match they are in.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 08/02/2015 10:26:08    1691065

Just watched the DvD game and there are a couple of different ways of looking at it. Some of the decisions were strange and he should have clamped down harder on some of the fouling or he got a lot of calls right but had to deal with two teams who were constantly at each other and at times not concentrating on fair play.
By the way the couple of calls he got blasted for were correct - the throw up when the ball hit him and the kickout that he did the same, The commentators where saying that those decisions made the players angry - the players were intent on playing a certain type of game before the took the field. I though it was appalling the amount of surrounding of the referee and shouting by the players - one black card would have sorted that out early on.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 08/02/2015 13:37:06    1691123

Does the black card still exist?2 Tyrone players pulled down Mayo lads and only got yellows.Mayo away with similar in 1st half.Same in Dublin/Donegal game

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 08/02/2015 15:06:17    1691154

01/02/2015 10:28:27 shaggylegend
ormond its not training umpires or linesmen its giving them the power to indicate a foul, only a referee can decide if its a foul in gaa, unlike soccer or rugby where the touch judge or linesman can flag up a foul themselves. Well perhaps that's whats needed at the top level as with pace of game it would be needed
01/02/2015 10:31:24 Dubh_linn
Ormond, I don't buy the argument that there would be any significant cost as we could see thirty seconds after the event that there wasn't an issue on TV replays. To introduce a replay facility wouldn't cost a lot and like I said if you were to loose a league final or championship game after months of hard graft and sacrifice I think you would be mighty unhappy that you weren't worthy of this investment in the game.
As for leaving it to the referee to ask for assistance, I wouldn't think a referee would mind if he got a vital call confirmed rather than take the blame for costing a team a match or worse, silverware.
Or another option would be to allow teams 3 or so challenges to a refs decision and go to video ref.
There would also more than likely be less of an intimidation factor for refs and this could help recruit more to the game.
I think by now the GAA would have improved officials training standards if the were going to do so. There would be significant cost. Extra facilities, extra equipment, extra officials. It would be better to improve match officials to make the difference between winning and losing, I don't think a challenge system is needed. Its needed in tennis/amer football but they are very different styled games to hurling/gaelic. There wouldn't be less intimidation with that and how would it help recruit more referees? Only way to recruit more referees is by changing how they are treated, less name calling etc
08/02/2015 10:03:44 Dubh_linn
Well Obm there were a number of instances in the game which was played at close to championship standard that just were not good enough and below what players deserve. This happens week in week out and not only in Dublin games by the way.
Indeed if you watch the match I think it would probably make more sense.
As for suggestions on improving referring , I don't profess to have a foolproof solution and my suggestion above will probably never happen but something needs to be done to improve standards in general considering commitment of players in all counties today. who is obm? Ormond thinks more needs to be done than what you suggest as you don't have anywhere near right proposals

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/02/2015 15:11:47    1691157

surely the black wasn't intended to be used for accidental collisions.

Miler (Mayo) - Posts: 1015 - 08/02/2015 15:47:27    1691180

As I already said obm, I don't profess to have the ultimate solution just think something needs to be done.
As for cost being a factor, I think the Gaa can we'll afford it.
As I mentioned also, its about giving the players what they deserve. If you want to wheel out the cost argument nothing would be done you wouldn't even have hawkeye which has already proved the right thing to do as was evident in the hurling final.
Wasn't the ref glad of that !

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 09/02/2015 18:32:04    1691808