Is reducing McCarthy Cup to 13 teams a good move or bad move?
I think it's a bad move. All counties if the wish to play at the top tier should be allowed. There should not be one rule for one and another rule for another. There is either relegation or there is not. I agree the 10 established hurling counties should not be threatened with relegation but neither should any other county joining the top tier.
I've always maintained a better move is for the Christy Ring winner to join at the qualifier stage. If they give a good account of themselves it should be there decision to join the top tier the following year. If the gap is too big, it should be their call to remain in the second tier.
The Hurling Championships Proposals: 2014 - 2016 and beyond does not give detail on whether the 2013 Christy Ring winner can join the "qualifying" group.
Hard to know. Perhaps the idea is to have a strong Christy Ring Cup so that a county making the step up doesn't go into the McCarthy Cup out of their depth? I think there is a proposal that the CRC winner would go into the LMcC qualifiers...surely a good thing!
1355063 Hard to know. Perhaps the idea is to have a strong Christy Ring Cup so that a county making the step up doesn't go into the McCarthy Cup out of their depth? I think there is a proposal that the CRC winner would go into the LMcC qualifiers...surely a good thing!
Possibly but the Ring Cup will continue to finish up way too early in the summer.
Even allowing for the change being brought in, is reducing to 13 a step too far? They are going to have 14 teams in 2015, with 4 playing in the qualifiying group. The following year of 2016 they will have 13 teams, with 3 teams in the qualifying group. Having three teams in a group could lead to the two teams playing in the last game fixing a result so that both go through ahead of the team having played 2 games already.
I'd have thought it best to have the qualifying group of 4 teams minimum. The push to reduce to 13 as opposed to 14 appears driven by a desire to have 8 teams in the Rackard Cup in 2016 instead of the 7 in 2015. The Rackard could easily settle for 7 teams. In terms of the structure, just leave give the Rackard winner or relegated Ring county a bye from the first round the following year.
More details on the Championship change is found here: http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/miscellaneous/CCCC%20Proposal%202014%20to%202016.pdf
Finally, there is no proposal that the CRC winner will go into the LMcC qualifiers.
I find this eletist - now only 13 counties can compete at McCarthy Cup level - its my belief that all counties should be allowed to play if they want -
1. Carlow have made great strides - and offaly were lucky to beat them last week 2. Antrim - should be there - yes they have experienced some hammerings - but they are dominating the O'Keefe Cup. won the club all-ireland last year 3. Westmeath - doing well at underage 4. Kerry 5. London - should be in the McCarthy 6. Derry - schools level strong
Down have gone backwards. But can we say that Laois and Armagh have been strong every year
If people want hurling to progress then give teams the chance to play teams that will bring them on. The league this year has brought Carlow on a lot but how far could we progress if we were given the chance to stay in the division without having to worry about relegation? The problem I have is that too many are pious in the extreme and yet when genuine opportunities are there to promote it they baulk at the idea.
Its a pity but the majority of the elite are inly interested in themselves and are not proactive in promoting the game of hurling on a more national basis. In fairness Kilkenny have a league where Carlow clubs are invited and this has helped a number of our clubs to improve and pit their talents against a similar standard in Kilkenny. But outside of that where is the interest/action/initiatives in promoting the game by making decisions that do promote it especially for counties like Carlow?
1355225 I find this eletist - now only 13 counties can compete at McCarthy Cup level - its my belief that all counties should be allowed to play if they want -
1. Carlow have made great strides - and offaly were lucky to beat them last week 2. Antrim - should be there - yes they have experienced some hammerings - but they are dominating the O'Keefe Cup. won the club all-ireland last year 3. Westmeath - doing well at underage 4. Kerry 5. London - should be in the McCarthy 6. Derry - schools level strong
Down have gone backwards. But can we say that Laois and Armagh have been strong every year
I agreed. It is elitest. All counties should be allowed play in the top tier if they want and at least win the CR to get there. The way I saw it, the CR winner should have been allowed enter the qualifiers if anything. That way CR winners could at least have tested the water.
I think the GAA caused half the problem of what they saw so many teams coming up by ring fencing them in the early round of the Leinster championship. If a team decides they want to play in the provincial championship, they shouldn't get any protection from being drawn against tough teams.
The new qualifying group however should bring out the better mid tier teams. Going by this article: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2013/03/23/congress-backs-new-hurling-championship-structure/ Antrim Chairman Jim Murray proposed an amendment to the motion, ensuring that counties who reach the semi-final of the Leinster Championship will be seeded for the following year.
He said: "This will give counties the impetus to move forward and there should be an advantage based on performance."
Carlow's Michael Mealy supported the amendment, stating: "If this is passed 10 teams are guaranteed senior status and the rest of us are not.
"Following the recent Division 1B hurling results, we consider ourselves very unlucky not to have between one and six points on table at this stage.
"If we were to progress this motion bars us from entering the top 10. In principal we don't mind building around top 10 teams - but the top 10 teams can't be the top 10 teams around forever.
"If in the unlikely event we were to win the All-Ireland we would be in the relegation zone the following year."
Other supporters of the amendment included Laois and Westmeath.
However, Antrim withdrew their amendment on the guarantee that their proposal would be seriously considered in the future.
... the mid tier teams don't seem opposed to "building around top 10 teams"
As it was voted through, the fact an amendment was being proposed initially shows a full solution has not yet been found.
I've sympathy for the predicament they are in. The integrity of the championship has to be protected. At the same time counties have to have a route to earn their spurs. I'm unsure of Antrim's call that getting to a provincial semi-final would warrant a county being seeded for the following year. If some criteria like that is to be used, I'd suggest setting the bar at reaching a provincial final or an All-Ireland semi-final. Guarantee the new seeded county then their place for 3 years. If they reach the bar set within those 3 years, give them full seeded status.
1355260 If people want hurling to progress then give teams the chance to play teams that will bring them on. The league this year has brought Carlow on a lot but how far could we progress if we were given the chance to stay in the division without having to worry about relegation? The problem I have is that too many are pious in the extreme and yet when genuine opportunities are there to promote it they baulk at the idea.
Its a pity but the majority of the elite are inly interested in themselves and are not proactive in promoting the game of hurling on a more national basis. In fairness Kilkenny have a league where Carlow clubs are invited and this has helped a number of our clubs to improve and pit their talents against a similar standard in Kilkenny. But outside of that where is the interest/action/initiatives in promoting the game by making decisions that do promote it especially for counties like Carlow?
Heard something on Kerry Radio yesterday of an underage team competing in a Cork competition. I don't have the ins and outs now but it sounded positive and a good step.
It's interesting that Laois, Antrim, Carlow and Westmeath were supportive of an amendment. They should have been consulted prior to the motion being finalised. It makes a joke of the motion aimed at bringing integrity to the championship that it's been agreed an amendment will be seriously considered in the future.
The 3 group qualifying group they've planned for 2016 could do it's own damage to the championship's integrity. The two teams playing the final game could fix the result that will guarantee both will go through ahead of the county with two games already played.