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With an increasing number of managers failing to survive the summer and some county players insisting that they won't play for particular managers and that they must have a say in the appointment of new managers I can't help wondering what is 'a good manager'? Is it someone who comes in, plans for the moment, lifts expectations, gets everybody to buy into his vision and has some term success before quickly moving on. Is it someone who will endeavour to set in place the structures that might ensure long term success. Does the pressure for immediate success (however that is measured) mean that only the first type are now considered as 'good managers' by county boards? What are Posters' thoughts on this?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 03/08/2017 23:15:29
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Its an interesting debate. I would say its all dependant of how the county are going.
I am involved with 2 counties. I am a Donegal man but I have spent the last 10 years in Sligo.
In Donegal it is expected that a manager do all of the above. A team needs to be competitive without affecting the structures set up over the last number of years. Our manager left after maintaining div 1 status. I would like to see the next manager build smartly for the future whilst bringing in a few more matured players to ease the transition for some of the younger players. I would like to see us leave u20s to play U20s and work with the 21-30+ year olds (Exception probably has to be Jason McGee as he is already a starter on the seniors). We should be aiming for Ulster final appearance (depending on draw) and to get into the top 8.
In Sligo any success would be seen as a massive achievement. From what I have seen there hasn't been much success at underage (although a very good u21 team this year). Their Manager stayed after barely surviving div 3. Their aim has to be at least challenging for div 3. They should also be aim for at least 1 shock in the championship.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 04/08/2017 11:35:13
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Replying To neverright: "With an increasing number of managers failing to survive the summer and some county players insisting that they won't play for particular managers and that they must have a say in the appointment of new managers I can't help wondering what is 'a good manager'? Is it someone who comes in, plans for the moment, lifts expectations, gets everybody to buy into his vision and has some term success before quickly moving on. Is it someone who will endeavour to set in place the structures that might ensure long term success. Does the pressure for immediate success (however that is measured) mean that only the first type are now considered as 'good managers' by county boards? What are Posters' thoughts on this?" I would think most of us in Monaghan would say our man is an example of a good manager. His predecessor an example of a bad one. We had a decent manager in Banty who had belief in his players and he brought us to the national stage from the doldrums and that was almost entirely reversed by Eamon McEnaney in 2 years. Banty was not the best strategically and ultimately didnt push us to the next level - having a period where there was an outstanding Armagh and Tyrone side in Ulster also didnt help. Malachy brought us back from Div 3 to Div 1 in 2 years and won two ulster titles. Monaghan are a very small county and we compete as best as we can and a lot of that is down to our management team...at least to me. The players have bought in to it and there is never an outward sign of dissent in the camp. He is fairly strong tactically, the players are very fit and most of the time leave it all on the field.
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 04/08/2017 12:26:29
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Great question impossible to answer,
Fitzmaurices stock will rise or plummet depending on this season
Gavin will be considered an all time great if doing three in a row , if Dublin fail as with our Defeat to Donegal holes will be picked in his tactical astuteness etc
My point being a game a margin of error from a keeper , the ref , the linesman, a bad injury something you cant plan for will determine how the coach is perceived for the next 12 months at least.
In my opinion a good manager meets realistic expectations a great manager exceeds them,
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 04/08/2017 12:49:00
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Replying To Damothedub: "Great question impossible to answer,
Fitzmaurices stock will rise or plummet depending on this season
Gavin will be considered an all time great if doing three in a row , if Dublin fail as with our Defeat to Donegal holes will be picked in his tactical astuteness etc
My point being a game a margin of error from a keeper , the ref , the linesman, a bad injury something you cant plan for will determine how the coach is perceived for the next 12 months at least.
In my opinion a good manager meets realistic expectations a great manager exceeds them," In my mind what makes Gavin a great manager is after said Donegal defeat he changed things. He learned from that defeat which has made Dublin nearly unbeatable (Kerry or Tyrone might have other ideas). No Matter who they play now they can change tactics accordingly. Until someone brings something new then Dublin are ahead of the rest.
That is what got to a lot of Donegal supporters in last 3 years. We expect mistakes from time to time but a team has to learn from them. Getting hammered by Tyrone and then playing the exact same tactics against Longford made no tactical sense. Where was the learning. That was just this year.
There are lessons to be learned in all defeats and most victories and the great managers adjust accordingly.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 04/08/2017 13:19:39
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Replying To dstuction: "In my mind what makes Gavin a great manager is after said Donegal defeat he changed things. He learned from that defeat which has made Dublin nearly unbeatable (Kerry or Tyrone might have other ideas). No Matter who they play now they can change tactics accordingly. Until someone brings something new then Dublin are ahead of the rest.
That is what got to a lot of Donegal supporters in last 3 years. We expect mistakes from time to time but a team has to learn from them. Getting hammered by Tyrone and then playing the exact same tactics against Longford made no tactical sense. Where was the learning. That was just this year.
There are lessons to be learned in all defeats and most victories and the great managers adjust accordingly." Good post
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 04/08/2017 15:19:49
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Replying To Damothedub: "Great question impossible to answer,
Fitzmaurices stock will rise or plummet depending on this season
Gavin will be considered an all time great if doing three in a row , if Dublin fail as with our Defeat to Donegal holes will be picked in his tactical astuteness etc
My point being a game a margin of error from a keeper , the ref , the linesman, a bad injury something you cant plan for will determine how the coach is perceived for the next 12 months at least.
In my opinion a good manager meets realistic expectations a great manager exceeds them," Nice contrast between 'good manager' and 'great manager'
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 04/08/2017 17:15:33
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Replying To neverright: "With an increasing number of managers failing to survive the summer and some county players insisting that they won't play for particular managers and that they must have a say in the appointment of new managers I can't help wondering what is 'a good manager'? Is it someone who comes in, plans for the moment, lifts expectations, gets everybody to buy into his vision and has some term success before quickly moving on. Is it someone who will endeavour to set in place the structures that might ensure long term success. Does the pressure for immediate success (however that is measured) mean that only the first type are now considered as 'good managers' by county boards? What are Posters' thoughts on this?" It's a very good question. I'm old school on it. Player input, particularly senior players, but only one boss. 'Una voce una duce'!
Your thread title 'A Good Manager' reminds me of Fergal Sharkey's 'A Good Heart'.. 'a good heart these days is hard to find'! Or if your from Tyrone a good 'Harte' ;)
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 05/08/2017 10:50:53
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Replying To Damothedub: "Great question impossible to answer,
Fitzmaurices stock will rise or plummet depending on this season
Gavin will be considered an all time great if doing three in a row , if Dublin fail as with our Defeat to Donegal holes will be picked in his tactical astuteness etc
My point being a game a margin of error from a keeper , the ref , the linesman, a bad injury something you cant plan for will determine how the coach is perceived for the next 12 months at least.
In my opinion a good manager meets realistic expectations a great manager exceeds them," Excellent post, as always Damo. The next 6-7 weeks are crucial for Gavin and Fitzmaurice's reputation alright.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 05/08/2017 11:51:43
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Just back to the good manager thread.
Derek McGrath is very good in many facets, particularly his vision of the game, tactics.
However he may be defined on how he manages the talent that is Austin Gleeson. Last Sunday's petulance has to be the end of it from him or he may well end up being the Diarmuid Connolly of hurling. Austin 22 now, a man not a boy.
Cody and Michael Ryan wouldn't take any rubbish from players. No one no matter how talented would have a special position.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 17/08/2017 15:51:47
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Good managers point the way.
Great managers make players want to follow.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 17/08/2017 16:17:43
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Malachy O Rourke.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6030 - 17/08/2017 16:35:23
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