National Forum

''Won't have a hope''

(Oldest Posts First)

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/more-needs-to-be-done-for-the-minnows-micko-35868864.html />

After watching last Sunday's abomination and in general the last 5-10 years I couldn't agree more with the great Micko

In the 80's, 90's and early -mid 00's the Leinster Championship was thrilling and vibrant competition with many teams having realistic dreams of winning it.

Now after 10+ years of big funding from Croke Park, the competition has been distorted and I fear the same will happen to the All Ireland itself


The GAA is supposed to be the custodian of the sport in the 32 counties but I feel this hasn't been the case for a while, what say you HS???

Galantis (USA) - Posts: 55 - 28/06/2017 13:51:24    2006835

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http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/more-needs-to-be-done-for-the-minnows-micko-35868864.html


Here is the link , not sure what happened with the OP

Galantis (USA) - Posts: 55 - 28/06/2017 14:02:51    2006852

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Replying To Galantis:  "http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/more-needs-to-be-done-for-the-minnows-micko-35868864.html


After watching last Sunday's abomination and in general the last 5-10 years I couldn't agree more with the great Micko

In the 80's, 90's and early -mid 00's the Leinster Championship was thrilling and vibrant competition with many teams having realistic dreams of winning it.

Now after 10+ years of big funding from Croke Park, the competition has been distorted and I fear the same will happen to the All Ireland itself


The GAA is supposed to be the custodian of the sport in the 32 counties but I feel this hasn't been the case for a while, what say you HS???"
The championship is a joke. Kildare strolled to the final by absolutely hockeying Laois and Meath, yet won't be within 15 points of Dublin.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 28/06/2017 14:04:33    2006855

Link

Replying To Galantis:  "http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/more-needs-to-be-done-for-the-minnows-micko-35868864.html


After watching last Sunday's abomination and in general the last 5-10 years I couldn't agree more with the great Micko

In the 80's, 90's and early -mid 00's the Leinster Championship was thrilling and vibrant competition with many teams having realistic dreams of winning it.

Now after 10+ years of big funding from Croke Park, the competition has been distorted and I fear the same will happen to the All Ireland itself


The GAA is supposed to be the custodian of the sport in the 32 counties but I feel this hasn't been the case for a while, what say you HS???"
The championship is a joke. Kildare strolled to the final by absolutely hockeying Laois and Meath, yet won't be within 15 points of Dublin.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 28/06/2017 18:42:14    2007057

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Easy cop-out for pundits/other Leinster counties to blame cash for the Dubs dominance, but why aren't they number 2 or 3 in Ireland? What more resources do Mayo or Tyrone have for example ? and yet they and other counties would also hockey every Leinster county (except maybe Kildare who do seem to be progressing). Leinster football needs to look at itself as bar the Dubs & Kildare, there is no other county in the top 10.

Also hate this nonsense from Kerry mostly about the hand-pass. It means play it the Kerry way or else you might beat us ! Counties must play to their strengths and if they don't have the forwards Kerry do, they are entitled to come up with other tactics within the rules and if that is hand passing and running from deep then go for it.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 28/06/2017 22:14:05    2007152

Link

Replying To Galantis:  "http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/more-needs-to-be-done-for-the-minnows-micko-35868864.html


After watching last Sunday's abomination and in general the last 5-10 years I couldn't agree more with the great Micko

In the 80's, 90's and early -mid 00's the Leinster Championship was thrilling and vibrant competition with many teams having realistic dreams of winning it.

Now after 10+ years of big funding from Croke Park, the competition has been distorted and I fear the same will happen to the All Ireland itself


The GAA is supposed to be the custodian of the sport in the 32 counties but I feel this hasn't been the case for a while, what say you HS???"
You say it was vibrant in the 80s and 90s, but in almost 30 years between 1969 and 1997 only 3 different teams won the Leinster Championship. The emergence of Kildare and then later Laois and Westmeath over the next 7 or 8 years was a big positive, but that was about it, when you take the last 50 years on the whole.
There's always a tendency to overstate how things used to be.
There's no doubt that Dublin are ultra dominant right now, but many's the thrashing they handed out to Leinster teams in previous decades too.
We all know the Championship in general needs to be restructured, but it was never a level playing field or even close to it. There's quite a bit of revisionism at times, when people talk about previous eras.
It's ironic in a way that the comments quoted are from Micko, considering he had most of his success during one of the most predictable eras in the history of football.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2042 - 28/06/2017 23:08:09    2007177

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It's very tough to know what to do really.

I don't think the GAA can do a whole lot about rural to urban migration. I wouldn't even think there's much can be done by the government. It's occurring on a global scale.

I think the GAA are doing the right thing in terms of investing in the East coast. That's where the population is growing.

For an interesting top level competition maybe the county system needs to be revised.

I actually don't see a whole lot wrong with merging of counties or of splitting Dublin.

It wouldn't have been an accident that the GAA adopted a county based model in the beginning. It made sense for rural Ireland and probably helped GAA dominate the sporting landscape. I think the association needs to be flexible going forward and be prepared to change as Ireland becomes more urban.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 29/06/2017 13:08:33    2007420

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GAA hierarchy is made up of administrators - no long-term vision or strategy. Dependency on TV money growing every year. Watch for how many games Sky gets in Super 8 next year. How long until SSASM - Sky Sports Arena Sam Maguire??

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 29/06/2017 13:39:12    2007442

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Replying To county man:  "Easy cop-out for pundits/other Leinster counties to blame cash for the Dubs dominance, but why aren't they number 2 or 3 in Ireland? What more resources do Mayo or Tyrone have for example ? and yet they and other counties would also hockey every Leinster county (except maybe Kildare who do seem to be progressing). Leinster football needs to look at itself as bar the Dubs & Kildare, there is no other county in the top 10.

Also hate this nonsense from Kerry mostly about the hand-pass. It means play it the Kerry way or else you might beat us ! Counties must play to their strengths and if they don't have the forwards Kerry do, they are entitled to come up with other tactics within the rules and if that is hand passing and running from deep then go for it."
Mayo and Tyrone are not getting hammered by an all dominant other side in their respective provinces year on year. They are not far ahead of their nearest rivals most times and perhaps not even ahead at all. Mayo are well challenged in Connacht and presently seem to be behind Galway. Tyrone are now rising to the top after a few years on Donegal and Monaghan dominance of Ulster, prior to which Tyrone and Armagh were dominant. Dublin are going for their 7th Leinster in a row. Out of the last 17 championships (since 2000) they have won 12. In that same period 4 of 5 connacht teams have won their championship, 4 of 9 Ulster teams have won theirs.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 29/06/2017 13:39:51    2007445

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Replying To seanfinn:  "Mayo and Tyrone are not getting hammered by an all dominant other side in their respective provinces year on year. They are not far ahead of their nearest rivals most times and perhaps not even ahead at all. Mayo are well challenged in Connacht and presently seem to be behind Galway. Tyrone are now rising to the top after a few years on Donegal and Monaghan dominance of Ulster, prior to which Tyrone and Armagh were dominant. Dublin are going for their 7th Leinster in a row. Out of the last 17 championships (since 2000) they have won 12. In that same period 4 of 5 connacht teams have won their championship, 4 of 9 Ulster teams have won theirs."
seanfinn, you have misunderstood countymans post. He was querying why the second-tier teams in Leinster were not at the level of Tyrone,Mayo,Donegal,Monaghan etc given that the resources of teams is comparable

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 29/06/2017 14:48:11    2007491

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Replying To seanfinn:  "Mayo and Tyrone are not getting hammered by an all dominant other side in their respective provinces year on year. They are not far ahead of their nearest rivals most times and perhaps not even ahead at all. Mayo are well challenged in Connacht and presently seem to be behind Galway. Tyrone are now rising to the top after a few years on Donegal and Monaghan dominance of Ulster, prior to which Tyrone and Armagh were dominant. Dublin are going for their 7th Leinster in a row. Out of the last 17 championships (since 2000) they have won 12. In that same period 4 of 5 connacht teams have won their championship, 4 of 9 Ulster teams have won theirs."
Dublin have won 4 of the last 6 AIs and a load of league titles, so their overall dominance is probably proportionally reflected in Leinster. Only Mayo and Donegal have beaten them since 2011 so no surprise that no one in Leinster has beaten them in that time.

poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 29/06/2017 15:43:46    2007519

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "You say it was vibrant in the 80s and 90s, but in almost 30 years between 1969 and 1997 only 3 different teams won the Leinster Championship. The emergence of Kildare and then later Laois and Westmeath over the next 7 or 8 years was a big positive, but that was about it, when you take the last 50 years on the whole.
There's always a tendency to overstate how things used to be.
There's no doubt that Dublin are ultra dominant right now, but many's the thrashing they handed out to Leinster teams in previous decades too.
We all know the Championship in general needs to be restructured, but it was never a level playing field or even close to it. There's quite a bit of revisionism at times, when people talk about previous eras.
It's ironic in a way that the comments quoted are from Micko, considering he had most of his success during one of the most predictable eras in the history of football."
Good post. I mean does anybody who was around in the seventies remember how predictable that period was. We got spoilt in the nineties and the football generally in the latter part of that decade was the best we have seen before or since. At leasy now with all the faults with current structures there is still more chance of a surprise/breakthrough of sorts compared to the seventies.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 29/06/2017 16:19:52    2007549

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Replying To poguemahone:  "Dublin have won 4 of the last 6 AIs and a load of league titles, so their overall dominance is probably proportionally reflected in Leinster. Only Mayo and Donegal have beaten them since 2011 so no surprise that no one in Leinster has beaten them in that time."
It's a bit unfair to dump all over Leinster football. Fair enough Dublin have won 4 of the last 6 All Irelands and almost a dozen Leinsters while the other provinces were having things more evenly spread around but I wonder how many teams would have won their provincial title if they shared a province with Dublin? Dublin have won multiple All Irelands and League titles and put together a 35 game unbeaten run during all that and they didn't beat all Leinster counties while doing it.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 29/06/2017 17:14:46    2007575

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Replying To kildare73:  "It's a bit unfair to dump all over Leinster football. Fair enough Dublin have won 4 of the last 6 All Irelands and almost a dozen Leinsters while the other provinces were having things more evenly spread around but I wonder how many teams would have won their provincial title if they shared a province with Dublin? Dublin have won multiple All Irelands and League titles and put together a 35 game unbeaten run during all that and they didn't beat all Leinster counties while doing it."
Yes Leinster gets this stick every year. Kerry and Mayo more or less dominate their province bar the odd hiccup in that time. What is it, 3 other counties have reached AI finals since 2011? One from each province.

poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 29/06/2017 17:36:43    2007586

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Replying To poguemahone:  "Yes Leinster gets this stick every year. Kerry and Mayo more or less dominate their province bar the odd hiccup in that time. What is it, 3 other counties have reached AI finals since 2011? One from each province."
I think people also underestimate just how demoralising it is for other teams in Leinster after they take a hammering from Dublin. I think it's been very psychologically damaging for the other Leinster counties and they can't really raise themselves for the qualifiers. Take Westmeath for example, how are the supposed to face into their next game after that beating!

HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 29/06/2017 17:56:06    2007614

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Agree in general about the alarming gap between dubs and the rest in Leinster, but worth bearing in mind the same conversation was being had about the Leinster hurling champ ten years ago and now look how the landscape is changing. Generally these things go in cycles.

However the dubs domination is ominous and less like!y to relent given their set up. I do admire what they've achieved, on and off the field,its not a given that they'd be at this stage by now.

Pikeman17 (Wexford) - Posts: 22 - 29/06/2017 19:33:39    2007663

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Replying To HighKings:  "I think people also underestimate just how demoralising it is for other teams in Leinster after they take a hammering from Dublin. I think it's been very psychologically damaging for the other Leinster counties and they can't really raise themselves for the qualifiers. Take Westmeath for example, how are the supposed to face into their next game after that beating!"
I know but heavy beatings happen , granted more so in Leinster v Dublin than with other Leinster ties. I think WM have to be a bit philosophical about it all. 2 provincial finals in a row and now an SF Leinster defeat. All to Dublin. They have done well if you remove their games against Dublin and that applies to a lot of Counties. There are and will be teams with higher ambitions in the qualifiers so they are not certainly not disgraced and are capable of beating a good few teams left in it.

poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 29/06/2017 20:02:03    2007674

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