I have'nt read any of the post yet but before I do I'd like to say the following.

- I thought every player would want to play in Croke Park at every chance
- Are people suggesting that the Dublin team, that could attract a crowd of 30,000 + should play their games in stadiums that can't even hold that much and the GAA going through a recession
- I'm sure the Dublin team and players, like other counties and their players, would have no problem playing where they are drwn to play. Its the GAA that set the fixtures. I hope people aren't turning this into an anti Dublin rant when the final decisions on venues is up to the GAA
- I'm sure Andréas has no problem with Loch Garman taking their share of the profits made by Comhairle Laighean and Croke Park everytime the Dubs supporters quarter fill/half fill/fill Croke Park - a feat that other counties could not do for one reason or another

All that said, Doyle probably had a point but, at the end of the day, the best team usually always wins. If Loch Garman are good enough they will win.

Go raibh maith agaibh.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 26/06/2012 22:02:54    1203177

BettystownRoyal
County: Meath
Posts: 2311

1202976
I used to support the idea of Dubin being split into 2,3 or 4 team like it should with it's population but imagine how shocking the support would be for them. There were about 15k dubs max at their first round game. divide that by 4 and we might as well knock parnell park down as it would be a white elephant

are you for real 15k max out of the 31k your so stupid or a wum there was about 28k out of that
and what about the league matches the 3 matches in croker had an average of 33k so wheres your usual slating dublin only come out for the summer
it doesnt matter what we do there will always be some fools give out about one thing or another

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/06/2012 09:17:48    1203199

BettystownRoyal
County: Meath
Posts: 2311


oh and meath v carlow attracted a massive 4k the last day seems meath have little fate in their supporters

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/06/2012 09:23:55    1203201

MesAmis

I've been on the hill with country mates of mine on several occasions and it's been great. No problems at all.

Then why was there a problem when mayo went to warm up in front of it?


The fact is that it is as easy for you to get a Hill ticket for a Dublin v Mayo game as it is for me. Through your club or county board or else on ticketmaster.

I didnt dispute this. I dont know why you keep saying it. My point is that becuase the dubs have the numbers and the facilities to buy up tickets quicker than the rest of us, other counties should get a chance to buy them before the dubs do, which would make the support in the ground (and not just hill 16, which you seem to be hung up on) more even as opposed to the dubs outnumbering everyone, and so less like a home game. Is it really so difficult to comprehend?


Is your problem that because country teams don't sell as many hill tickets those tickets shouldn't be sent back and sold to Dublin supporters?

I dont understand how you could possibly have to to this conclusion from what I said.


I find it unbelieveable that the dubs on here cant bring themselves to admit that playing at home in front of a huge partisan crowd is not an advantage. Please, less of this 'bring it up with the county board blah blah blah' rubbish. We are just asking you to admit it is an advantage. How many dubs on this thread have avoided doing that, or danced around the issue by coming in with some long-winded spiel about finances that nobody was disputing in the first place. I seen one excuse along the lines of 'sure everyone wants to play in croker', ya of course they do, but that doesnt make it any less of a home tie for the dubs does it?! Is there any dub who just said 'yes it is an advantage.' on this thread? Out of all the posts I would bet you could count then on one hand. If the upcoming connaght final is scheduled for mchale park then it will be an advantage for mayo. See lads, it isnt so hard being honest.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/06/2012 11:02:16    1203277

Well said Master.

lochgarmanabu (Wexford) - Posts: 1022 - 27/06/2012 12:13:32    1203361

26/06/2012 22:02:54
Culann
County: Dublin
Posts: 310

1203177 I have'nt read any of the post yet but before I do I'd like to say the following.

- I thought every player would want to play in Croke Park at every chance
Definitely believe you are correct but why should Dublin always get to play their matches there
- Are people suggesting that the Dublin team, that could attract a crowd of 30,000 + should play their games in stadiums that can't even hold that much and the GAA going through a recession
Yes that's exactly what they are suggesting. This is the whole point, Dublin get an advantage every year in the championship and the only reason they get the advantage is because of GAA greed. So has the recession been going for the past 40 years?
- I'm sure the Dublin team and players, like other counties and their players, would have no problem playing where they are drwn to play. Its the GAA that set the fixtures. I hope people aren't turning this into an anti Dublin rant when the final decisions on venues is up to the GAA
I don't think anybody suggested this and I agree the GAA are the ones who organise this not the Dublin team however this doesn't change the fact that Dublin get an unfair advantage
- I'm sure Andréas has no problem with Loch Garman taking their share of the profits made by Comhairle Laighean and Croke Park everytime the Dubs supporters quarter fill/half fill/fill Croke Park - a feat that other counties could not do for one reason or another
Despite what you might think Dublin GAA doesn't own Croke park. Also keep in mind that there are a huge number of other games played there each year that Dublin don't play in. Also keep in mind that the only reason Dublin won anything before the 60s was because of all the culchies playing for ye. You guys owe these guys for keeping GAA alive in Dublin. I think Dublin playing in Wexford park probably would be a better benefit to Wexford and not just the GAA but the local economy.

All that said, Doyle probably had a point but, at the end of the day, the best team usually always wins. If Loch Garman are good enough they will win.
Do if Doyle had a point what is your point? Again are you saying that playing at home is not an advantage because anybody saying that is probably not that bright because it's a known fact that playing at home can give a team an extra few scored.
Go raibh maith agaibh.
Keep in mind that you crowd up there would all be starving only for the like of us Wexford people. Also keep in mind that you'd spend 100% of you summer up there sitting in the ******* rain (rather than 99%) and strolling along on radioactive black sand only for us. Keep in mind you'd have no strawberries with your ice-cream

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 27/06/2012 13:09:22    1203434

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 4358


You agree that it is as easy for you to get Hill tickets as it is for any Dub but yet you complain that the Hill isn't an even split. Maybe there's a point in there somewhere.

Croke Park's gotta be somewhere lads and if yous don't like the Dubs getting 'home' advantage then it's up to your county boards to change it up.

No point in Aindreas Doyle giving out about in a newspaper. Why didn't he raise these concerns with his county board in 2010 when they had a chance to bring the Dubs to Wexford Park and declined for some strange reason!!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13846 - 27/06/2012 14:12:51    1203503

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 4635

1203503 TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 4358


You agree that it is as easy for you to get Hill tickets as it is for any Dub but yet you complain that the Hill isn't an even split. Maybe there's a point in there somewhere.

Croke Park's gotta be somewhere lads and if yous don't like the Dubs getting 'home' advantage then it's up to your county boards to change it up.

No point in Aindreas Doyle giving out about in a newspaper. Why didn't he raise these concerns with his county board in 2010 when they had a chance to bring the Dubs to Wexford Park and declined for some strange reason!!


Well said MesAmis and again just like myself you make the point about Wexford turning down the opportunity to play at home to the Dubs in 2010. That says it all for me about the county board there. Aindreas needs to air his grievances in that direction surely. You can't have it both ways lads.

I've made the point several times on here before, if somebody thinks that the immense pressure on young Dublin guys playing in Croke Park is "a big advantage" then you are kidding yourself. I would say that any advantage gained by the volume of Dub supporters, and let's face it Dublin will outnumber opposing fans in most grounds anway, is easily outweighed by the pressure on the players as they are always under the microscope at HQ. Sounds like Aindreas has his excuses ready anyway.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 27/06/2012 14:47:17    1203556

MesAmis

You agree that it is as easy for you to get Hill tickets as it is for any Dub but yet you complain that the Hill isn't an even split. Maybe there's a point in there somewhere.
Croke Park's gotta be somewhere lads and if yous don't like the Dubs getting 'home' advantage then it's up to your county boards to change it up.
No point in Aindreas Doyle giving out about in a newspaper. Why didn't he raise these concerns with his county board in 2010 when they had a chance to bring the Dubs to Wexford Park and declined for some strange reason!!

Jesus are you for real? We get a chance to buy them, but we dont get the same chance the dubs do, that is the whole point. Can you not see that what I am saying is a possibility to counteract it being a home tie? No need to go to county boards or any of that waffle that you keep pushing. Look if there are 12 seats up fro grabs to a game between mayo and dublin in croker. There are 12 dubs looking for a ticket and there are 8 outlets for them to get tickets in dublin. Now lets say in mayo we have 8 people looking for tickets and 4 outlets. Obviously, all things being equal, the dublin fans are going to buy more than their share of the tickets in the same time the mayo fans will have bought a little over half their share. This is my point, you need to give the mayos of this world more time to get their share of tickets than the likes of dublin. That is if you want to make things a bit fairer anyway, if you dont then you will keep waffling on about county boards and anything else you can think of rather than address the real issue.

My point about the hill was slightly different. Even on top of the above point, the reality is nobody wants to go into the hill when dublin are there because they know they will be surrounded by dubs with many dishing out abuse, which in all fairness would spoil the spectacle of the game. For this reason the gaa should make a special effort with the hill to make sure that it is split evenly between the 2 sets of fans. No 1 set of fans should take over a full stand, it can effect the game. For instance, if hill 16 was full of kerrymen last year and cluxton was shooting into it in the last minute, it would be a lot harder for him than say if he was shooting into a stand of dublin fans. The point is it could possibly unbalance the game, not to mention it is offputting for people going to a match, and that should never be the case in any game.

Also MesAmis, a simple yes or no question, is playing in your back garden in from of a huge partisan crowd an advantage to the home team?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/06/2012 14:52:55    1203568

It seems odd that all these country teams agree so eagerly to surrender "home advantage" to the Dubs, including Doyle's. Its utterly debately if playing in front of 60K of your supporters is an advantage or not.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4968 - 27/06/2012 14:55:02    1203571

Some excellent posts on here from the Master and Nick from Wexford. As I said at the start of this thread fair play to Aindreas Doyle for calling a spade a spade. It is definitely an advantage to Dublin but sure they just won't admit it. Dubs will use the weight of numbers argument in a heartbeat to explain anything to do with their support but this argument mysteriously disappears when talking about their playing numbers? You can't have it both ways lads.
Who is this joker Snufalufugus eh? Pontificating from on high like some malevolent omnipotent overlord. Am I right to infer that some on here give you some sort of credibility? If it wasn't for Dublin fans turning up late for matches to finish their "gargle bud" then the Gaa would cease to exist in the third world equivalents of Leitrim and Wexford? Honestly that is a shameful remark. Some player no one has ever heard of in relation to Aindreas Doyle? How's that relevant? Plenty of people have heard of him just because you haven't. I imagine what you're not familiar with would extend to quite an amount of information.
Should Dublin prevail at the weekend by a point or two the issue of home advantage will be highlighted even further. In an age where every possible advantage is identified and pursued with almost maniacal zeal from nutrition to recovery strategies to individualized training programs to sports psychology it's crazy to think one side receives such a huge and obvious advantage. All things being equal Wexford will lose on Sunday as home advantage is exactly that an advantage. Hopefully Wexford make a mockery of this and win. Hon Wexford!!

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 27/06/2012 14:57:31    1203575

Do I think playing in front of a partisan home crowd gives the home team an advantage, I would say yes but not as great an adavantage as some have made it out to be. How much of an advantage is it? The usual arguments are that the ref gives the home team the benefit when it comes to 50-50 decisions and there's also the argument that some opposition find playing in front of such a crowd intimidating.
I would say though that the better teams aren't really phased by such things. Referee's giving the home side the benefit of the doubt in 50-50 calls goes in all walks of gaelic football and other sports, from underage all the way to senior this isn't an uncommon factor. I'm yet to see any Kerry, Cork, Meath or the majority of the northern teams phased by the crowd whatsoever when they play Dublin at Croke Park. They've had 50-50 calls go against them but they've ploughed on and would never use playing Dublin at Croke Park as a disadvantage. The thought of beating Dublin at Croke Park is a huge motivating factor for a lot of teams - Tyrone in 05 and 08 benefitted greatly from the experience they had of beating Dublin on their way to All-Ireland glory.
Croke Park doesn't always 'belong' to Dublin, in 1992 Donegal had easily 3/4's of the support in Croke Park that day, proof if anything that if fans really want to go to games and bring a stronger support they can. People will talk about the cost of doing so which I understand, we're all suffering in the current economic climate, but they can't say they don't have the option to go and then give out about the strength of the Dub support just because Croke Park is in Dublin city. The Master made a fair point that the option to buy tickets for Hill 16 is easier for Dub supporters than non Dub supporters but the same facilities to buy stand tickets through a persons club or through ticket outlets / ticketmaster etc are still available to county supporters. If people really want to go and support their team they can, you're looking at a difference of a tenner for a terrace ticket, if you really wanted to support your team would the cost of 2 pints stop you?
If there's some comfort for some in thinking that when they lose to Dublin they did so because they had to play Dublin at Croke Park then so be it but in my book the better teams and the better players wouldn't use that as an excuse as to why they lost.

NavyNBlue (Dublin) - Posts: 1357 - 27/06/2012 15:17:30    1203604

Bosco
County: Carlow
Posts: 327

1203575 Some excellent posts on here from the Master and Nick from Wexford. As I said at the start of this thread fair play to Aindreas Doyle for calling a spade a spade. It is definitely an advantage to Dublin but sure they just won't admit it. Dubs will use the weight of numbers argument in a heartbeat to explain anything to do with their support but this argument mysteriously disappears when talking about their playing numbers? You can't have it both ways lads.
Who is this joker Snufalufugus eh? Pontificating from on high like some malevolent omnipotent overlord. Am I right to infer that some on here give you some sort of credibility? If it wasn't for Dublin fans turning up late for matches to finish their "gargle bud" then the Gaa would cease to exist in the third world equivalents of Leitrim and Wexford? Honestly that is a shameful remark. Some player no one has ever heard of in relation to Aindreas Doyle? How's that relevant? Plenty of people have heard of him just because you haven't. I imagine what you're not familiar with would extend to quite an amount of information.
Should Dublin prevail at the weekend by a point or two the issue of home advantage will be highlighted even further. In an age where every possible advantage is identified and pursued with almost maniacal zeal from nutrition to recovery strategies to individualized training programs to sports psychology it's crazy to think one side receives such a huge and obvious advantage. All things being equal Wexford will lose on Sunday as home advantage is exactly that an advantage. Hopefully Wexford make a mockery of this and win. Hon Wexford!!



You're right of course. Tell me, with this plan of yours, when would you ever see Croke Park being used? AI Final only? AI semis? Provincial final? Provincial Semis (of which this game is one of course)? And I presume that you have been backing the cause of Kildare in not having their semi at Newbridge but rather at Croker which is of course only a few miles from the Meath border and so favours Meath doesn't it? Ok Croker is not Meath's home pitch but of course it isn't Dublin's either as we are so often told.

In fairness, Wexford have nothing to lose at Croker. There is no weight of expectation, there will be no O'Rourke, Spillane, Brolly waiting to pounce on their every mistake, there will be no sports hacks ready to publicise their inadequacies in the national press and of course they won't have 50,000+ expectant fans on their back every time they miss a pass. Huge advantage to the Dubs alright. Would much rather be playing in those conditions than in some grass pacth in the back of beyond alright. Advantage Dublin no doubt about it.

Up the Dubs!!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 27/06/2012 15:28:37    1203616

Joxer,
the back of beyond? Where is this mythical "back of beyond"? Is it near the aforementioned "ballygobackwards" an old reliable oft used by your county men in an inane attempt at sarcasm and condescension?
Veer off point all you please bud, sure Croke Park is built now we have to use it? Sure Wexford Park is built too we may use that as well? And sure the N11 is completed this long time and so is the M7 for that matter sure it'd be a shame not to use that also. I don't particularly care what Kildare or Meath or anyone else thinks. You have enormous advantages over counties like Carlow, Laois, Louth, Wexford etc. You have club teams picking out of larger populations and greater resources than the like of Longford and yet you still won't even concede that the concession of home advantage by these counties whatever the motivation for it financial or otherwise is giving an already unbalanced contest even less scope for a result other than the one almost engineered by the already unfair playing field.
What Aindreas Doyle said earlier in the week is correct and only the most myopic of observers could fail to recognize that.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 27/06/2012 16:09:29    1203664

Ah, Dublin by the grace of God....."bud"!!! Up the Dubs!!!!!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 27/06/2012 16:25:52    1203681

I wonder how many All Irelands Kerry would have won if all their games was played in killarney?

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3993 - 27/06/2012 16:25:56    1203682

Bosco
County: Carlow
Posts: 328

1203664 Joxer,
the back of beyond? Where is this mythical "back of beyond"? Is it near the aforementioned "ballygobackwards" an old reliable oft used by your county men in an inane attempt at sarcasm and condescension?
Veer off point all you please bud, sure Croke Park is built now we have to use it? Sure Wexford Park is built too we may use that as well? And sure the N11 is completed this long time and so is the M7 for that matter sure it'd be a shame not to use that also. I don't particularly care what Kildare or Meath or anyone else thinks. You have enormous advantages over counties like Carlow, Laois, Louth, Wexford etc. You have club teams picking out of larger populations and greater resources than the like of Longford and yet you still won't even concede that the concession of home advantage by these counties whatever the motivation for it financial or otherwise is giving an already unbalanced contest even less scope for a result other than the one almost engineered by the already unfair playing field.
What Aindreas Doyle said earlier in the week is correct and only the most myopic of observers could fail to recognize that.


Ah yes. Look that phrase up in the dictionary like a good man now Bosco, ye boy ye! Sorry you took offence to it. You're obviously an Aussie...

"The inland desert region of Australia that is otherwise known as the Never-never is also sometimes called the 'Back of Beyond'."

I simply mean away from the hustle and bustle of the capital's city centre and 80,000 fans. It wasn't supposed to be a reference to your back garden but I will let you decide how accurate it was if that is the case.

You've missed the point again it seems. Anyway, the point is that if Croke Park is not used, it doesn't just become a white elephant it spells the end for the GAA as much needed funding is lost. That's just simple maths and it isn't just going to effect Dublin or Wexford either. Your attempt to compare this to the M7 or N11 is indeed myopic it seems. Perhaps you, like I, wear glasses.

Aindreas is entitled to his opinion but so is everybody else and like you've said in a previous barbed post about Dublin's failure to land trophies, his argument hardly stands up to statistics now does it.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 27/06/2012 16:40:21    1203699

Jackeen,
good one! Imagine the mind that takes the time to actually write that out? I mean if it was a throwaway comment verbally you could be forgiven for just blurting out such nonsense but to write that and not realize at any stage that what you're saying is pointless? Dublin by the grace of God? Two of the three nouns in that sentence are questionable to say the least but sure ignorance is bliss......

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 27/06/2012 16:41:30    1203701

Gaa_lover they would certainly win more than one every 15 years. It is strange that the Dublin supporters on here are still finding it difficult to accept the fact that it is an advantage to play in Croker.

lochgarmanabu (Wexford) - Posts: 1022 - 27/06/2012 16:45:07    1203704

Thanks Bosco, thought you'd appreciate that one. There's no point getting into this argument with anybody on this forum. It's been done to death, many times, several times a year actually. If you, and all the other opponents really feel that strongly then take it up with the appropriate bodies that can actually do something about it rather than using it as a stick to beat the Dubs with. No need for insults at all. It is, after all, just the internet!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 27/06/2012 16:52:04    1203711