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Need to get real here. A big tough lad like Donegal's Brearty who at 17 easily could handle himself with age 25+ blokes was an exception. There'll be far more 17 year old blokes, who, despite being tall, strong and fast, would be destroyed by someone 7 / 8 years older. U19 good idea as not too many college 1st years on Sigerson etc anyway. U17 terrible idea as Northern system has lads at secondary school until age 18, A' levels a year later than Leaving Cert
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/02/2017 15:06:11
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Great to see this get some coverage
From an UK perspective it would be great to have the wider GAA community being being Pro choice with this.
Players who are being overused actually have a choice of playing less (for less teams) at Under 17
Players who feel they can handle an adult grade should have that choice at Under 17.
Players who feel they can't handle it do not have to play adult.
Players who teams fold because they don't have enough players have no choice but to play something else.
Teams who's young players leave because they are not getting enough games don't have a choice if they can't play them and risk folding.
A typical UK club minor team would have 3-4 U18s, 5-6 U17s and the rest U16. We only have 3-4 U18 teams in London providing 4-6 games a year for the players. Of these U18s can also play adult, U16s get more games and U17s get shafted. For us playing additional U17 competitions would not increase the number of games significantly du eto the number of available teams.
The 4-6 U17s coming through every year make a big difference to Junior/Senior reserve teams down the line and we risk losing them to the game completely now. They have no schools, colleges or hurling to burn them out. We will not be able to bottom fill our adult teams with local players within a couple years if this rule is not changed. We have a London born lads as our County captain for the first time this year. It would be a shame if he was the last.
Pro choice Abu!
jimbo66 (UK) - Posts: 22 - 16/02/2017 16:54:32
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Replying To jimbo66: "Great to see this get some coverage From an UK perspective it would be great to have the wider GAA community being being Pro choice with this. Players who are being overused actually have a choice of playing less (for less teams) at Under 17 Players who feel they can handle an adult grade should have that choice at Under 17. Players who feel they can't handle it do not have to play adult. Players who teams fold because they don't have enough players have no choice but to play something else. Teams who's young players leave because they are not getting enough games don't have a choice if they can't play them and risk folding. A typical UK club minor team would have 3-4 U18s, 5-6 U17s and the rest U16. We only have 3-4 U18 teams in London providing 4-6 games a year for the players. Of these U18s can also play adult, U16s get more games and U17s get shafted. For us playing additional U17 competitions would not increase the number of games significantly du eto the number of available teams. The 4-6 U17s coming through every year make a big difference to Junior/Senior reserve teams down the line and we risk losing them to the game completely now. They have no schools, colleges or hurling to burn them out. We will not be able to bottom fill our adult teams with local players within a couple years if this rule is not changed. We have a London born lads as our County captain for the first time this year. It would be a shame if he was the last. Pro choice Abu!"
The few outstanding players are on every team, but rules should be made for the 95%, not the elite 5%.
The same players can play adult rugby, adult soccer, adult golf. Why the need to stop them playing GAA.
I hope this rule is passed and allow young lads make the decision themselves if they want to play.
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 16/02/2017 19:55:32
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The few outstanding players are on every team, but rules should be made for the 95%, not the elite 5%.
These committees Croke Park try to justify themselves by bringing in rules which harm ordinary club players. They will actually drive players to other sports. Player burnout is confined to elite young players. They are forced to play 3/4 between games in a week. Time to play third level college in November/January. Players who play u21/ third level should not be eligible to play league until knocked out of u21,sigerson/fitzgibbon competitions.
Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 17/02/2017 12:05:59
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If lads of seventeen are not playing Gaelic at some adult level, it is quite likely that they will be playing for some local soccer club at that level. Posters talk about 'introducing' young players to adult football through junior teams. From my own experience I think junior football is far more dangerous for young lads than senior football is.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 17/02/2017 12:32:43
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Would it be realistic to suggest these players are treated like players on the senior as opposed to B team? Like maybe we can "name" a small amount of players that are under 18 but can play senior. It would allow those well fit for it to be given a chance and not put pressure on kids just to make up numbers
Iamlegion666 (Monaghan) - Posts: 285 - 17/02/2017 13:12:30
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I think this rule should be removed. There is no way that an u-17 player who is not playing county minor is going to get burnt out, in fact they are more likely to quit for lack of football.
There is then already a rule in place that prevents county minors playing senior for their clubs, which works and does prevent those players from burnout.
We should trust our clubs, mentors, parents and the players themselves to decide if they want to play adult football. My experience of u-17s and adult football is that often they'll just train with the seniors during the summer to feel involved, which is something that this rule ruins.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts: 185 - 17/02/2017 14:55:09
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Replying To Iamlegion666: "Would it be realistic to suggest these players are treated like players on the senior as opposed to B team? Like maybe we can "name" a small amount of players that are under 18 but can play senior. It would allow those well fit for it to be given a chance and not put pressure on kids just to make up numbers" Your point is spot on , I believe a birth cert does not make you eligible or ineligible , I've seen lads 19 - 20 years of age who never took conditioning seriously completely unready for adult games , lads who could do a lunge a squat no core work and they got busted up pretty early , I've seen 17 who are more than ready and capable , clubs players coaches need to be intelligent , know who is and isn't capable ,
Another point made by a poster I'd agree with in Dublin junior football is more dangerous than senior / intermediate , while the shoulder you may receive in top grades or the tackles are ferocious in nature ,in junior it's the knee in the back the elbow or slide tackle .
Equally were is the furore in other sports to police , in my club from last years second year minors we have 6 players playing this year , and that's a trend for quite a while , more games I believe will help retention of players
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/02/2017 15:15:05
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Replying To Iamlegion666: "Would it be realistic to suggest these players are treated like players on the senior as opposed to B team? Like maybe we can "name" a small amount of players that are under 18 but can play senior. It would allow those well fit for it to be given a chance and not put pressure on kids just to make up numbers" The only problem with this is it is too subjective and I know of a few clubs in Dublin who drive trucks, coaches and tanks through the rules as they currently exist never mind something as loose as this. I know from experience I have had sons and daughters and extended family involved at all levels of GAA and I look at two of these lads who played at the highest levels yet at 21 they are no longer involved in GAA at all. The pressures on them was immense from club, parents and coaches and they just went hey enough is enough. I think the GAA's attitudes to this will harden further given the amount of medical research out there now. We would be far better putting our energies into creating dynamic grades and meaningful activity for all players between the ages of 16 to 21.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 17/02/2017 19:41:16
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Replying To arock: "The only problem with this is it is too subjective and I know of a few clubs in Dublin who drive trucks, coaches and tanks through the rules as they currently exist never mind something as loose as this. I know from experience I have had sons and daughters and extended family involved at all levels of GAA and I look at two of these lads who played at the highest levels yet at 21 they are no longer involved in GAA at all. The pressures on them was immense from club, parents and coaches and they just went hey enough is enough. I think the GAA's attitudes to this will harden further given the amount of medical research out there now. We would be far better putting our energies into creating dynamic grades and meaningful activity for all players between the ages of 16 to 21." when they get to 18 the same pressures will be on them
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 17/02/2017 22:50:44
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "when they get to 18 the same pressures will be on them" Not true. They will no longer be eligible for u17.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4222 - 18/02/2017 11:29:10
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The few outstanding players are on every team, but rules should be made for the 95%, not the elite 5%.
The same players can play adult rugby, adult soccer, adult golf. Why the need to stop them playing GAA.
I hope this rule is passed and allow young lads make the decision themselves if they want to play.
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts:1202 - 16/02/2017 19:55:32This change is a good thing. In rugby you have to be 18 years of age to play under 20 level and adult level. There is a need to stop the huge amount of teens playing on too many teams and all the issues that arise from that
I think this rule should be removed. There is no way that an u-17 player who is not playing county minor is going to get burnt out, in fact they are more likely to quit for lack of football.
There is then already a rule in place that prevents county minors playing senior for their clubs, which works and does prevent those players from burnout.
We should trust our clubs, mentors, parents and the players themselves to decide if they want to play adult football. My experience of u-17s and adult football is that often they'll just train with the seniors during the summer to feel involved, which is something that this rule ruins.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts:181 - 17/02/2017 14:55:09This rule shouldn't be removed. An u17 even if not playing county minor can cert get burnt out if on club 21s, club senior or junior...
The kids can still train with seniors but not play games.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/02/2017 14:48:10
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Replying To Whammo86: "Not true. They will no longer be eligible for u17." What under 17 competitions are there?
None in Westmeath
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 18/02/2017 19:05:58
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "The few outstanding players are on every team, but rules should be made for the 95%, not the elite 5%.
The same players can play adult rugby, adult soccer, adult golf. Why the need to stop them playing GAA.
I hope this rule is passed and allow young lads make the decision themselves if they want to play.
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts:1202 - 16/02/2017 19:55:32This change is a good thing. In rugby you have to be 18 years of age to play under 20 level and adult level. There is a need to stop the huge amount of teens playing on too many teams and all the issues that arise from that
I think this rule should be removed. There is no way that an u-17 player who is not playing county minor is going to get burnt out, in fact they are more likely to quit for lack of football.
There is then already a rule in place that prevents county minors playing senior for their clubs, which works and does prevent those players from burnout.
We should trust our clubs, mentors, parents and the players themselves to decide if they want to play adult football. My experience of u-17s and adult football is that often they'll just train with the seniors during the summer to feel involved, which is something that this rule ruins.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts:181 - 17/02/2017 14:55:09This rule shouldn't be removed. An u17 even if not playing county minor can cert get burnt out if on club 21s, club senior or junior...
The kids can still train with seniors but not play games." Not likely in my own county. The minor and u-21 championships don't overlap and a good u-17 player will rarely play true senior football anyway. Lads not getting enough football is more of an issue at this grade, especially during the summer months. You'll find that it is much harder to get u-17s out training with their club if they know that they won't see a minute of football. this is particular a problem for small clubs who are amalgamated at underage level. A lot of lads who are minor and training with the seniors tend to improve exponentially at his point, at least in my own club.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts: 185 - 18/02/2017 19:46:50
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Not likely in my own county. The minor and u-21 championships don't overlap and a good u-17 player will rarely play true senior football anyway. Lads not getting enough football is more of an issue at this grade, especially during the summer months. You'll find that it is much harder to get u-17s out training with their club if they know that they won't see a minute of football. this is particular a problem for small clubs who are amalgamated at underage level. A lot of lads who are minor and training with the seniors tend to improve exponentially at his point, at least in my own club.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts:182 - 18/02/2017 19:46:50If u17s cant play adult then to get them enough games be that hurling or football you simply change the under 17 competitions to provide teams with more games. They can still train with senior/adult teams but simply not play games. this isn't an issue. If it isn't an issue in rugby which has significant less players and you cant play adult rugby until you are 18 then it shouldn't be an issue for the GAA and having to be 17
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/02/2017 15:20:30
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Not likely in my own county. The minor and u-21 championships don't overlap and a good u-17 player will rarely play true senior football anyway. Lads not getting enough football is more of an issue at this grade, especially during the summer months. You'll find that it is much harder to get u-17s out training with their club if they know that they won't see a minute of football. this is particular a problem for small clubs who are amalgamated at underage level. A lot of lads who are minor and training with the seniors tend to improve exponentially at his point, at least in my own club.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts:182 - 18/02/2017 19:46:50If u17s cant play adult then to get them enough games be that hurling or football you simply change the under 17 competitions to provide teams with more games. They can still train with senior/adult teams but simply not play games. this isn't an issue. If it isn't an issue in rugby which has significant less players and you cant play adult rugby until you are 18 then it shouldn't be an issue for the GAA and having to be 17" what U17 competitions?
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 19/02/2017 16:37:08
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The Celtic Challenge is U17.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 19/02/2017 18:24:39
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Not likely in my own county. The minor and u-21 championships don't overlap and a good u-17 player will rarely play true senior football anyway. Lads not getting enough football is more of an issue at this grade, especially during the summer months. You'll find that it is much harder to get u-17s out training with their club if they know that they won't see a minute of football. this is particular a problem for small clubs who are amalgamated at underage level. A lot of lads who are minor and training with the seniors tend to improve exponentially at his point, at least in my own club.
Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts:182 - 18/02/2017 19:46:50If u17s cant play adult then to get them enough games be that hurling or football you simply change the under 17 competitions to provide teams with more games. They can still train with senior/adult teams but simply not play games. this isn't an issue. If it isn't an issue in rugby which has significant less players and you cant play adult rugby until you are 18 then it shouldn't be an issue for the GAA and having to be 17" Rugby also has significantly less clubs i.e. less clubs fot the total number of players to be spread amongst!
Heraf (Laois) - Posts: 316 - 20/02/2017 14:27:01
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Rugby also has significantly less clubs i.e. less clubs fot the total number of players to be spread amongst!
Heraf (Laois) - Posts:303 - 20/02/2017 14:27:01 And less players. Also has regulations that if in certain schools even if 18 years of age you cant play club rugby until finished school.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/02/2017 15:29:05
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Replying To keeper7: "The Celtic Challenge is U17." how does that help the average 17 year old club player?
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 20/02/2017 17:34:57
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