If this is the proposed structure, it is an absolute disaster for the development of hurling. I think the provincial championships have run their course. I would love an unseeded knockout championship of 16 teams. Kilkenny, Tipperary, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick, Dublin, Clare, Wexford, Antrim, Laois, Offaly, Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath and Meath. First team out of the hat gets a home draw in both last 16 and quarter final draws. Semi finals and final played in Croke Park. With a fortunate draw you could have an Offaly or a Limerick or a Dublin getting to all ireland semi final. You could have Tipp v KK in the last 16 knockout! I know people will say it's less games, but it could really liven up the league as well. Win the right to be classed in the top 16 for championship based on league standings. Have 4 divisions of 8, two up two down. Imagine the top 2 in division 3 will get to play in all ireland and be 4 games away from Liam!

HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 14/05/2017 03:23:31    1986509

It's a reasonable stab at a format. I would like to see the group's being mixed every few years with Munster teams playing Leinster teams. It also doesn't factor in the fact that the Munster teams will have come through a tougher group than the Leinster teams.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 14/05/2017 15:23:14    1986575

With much publicity about the Munster 5 and Leinster 5 round robin groups in the AI SHC, I would have preferred to see mixed province groups - say 3 Munster teams in Group A and the other 2 in B.
These groups could be 'formed', not drawn, as 8 Prov Championship KO matches are incorporated.
Say, put Lein QF winner in A, their SF/QF opponents in B;
Put Muns QF winner in B, their SF/QF opponents in A; and 
Finally, put two other SF winners in the group opposite their Final/SF opponents.
The group phase could continue so the 5 in A play the 5 in B (5x5, 25 group matches).
To avoid repeat pairings in the AI KO phase - SF1 has 1st in A v QF winner from 2nd v 3rd in A.
As most of the 25 match victories could be in one group, I would have the best 6 of 10 advancing with intra -group KO pairings as much as possible.
Would this be better ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2590 - 14/05/2017 16:39:21    1986585

Is there proposals to upgrade stadiums. Clare's Cusack park and Waterfords Walsh park aren't good enough to host Munster championship matches at the moment. Clare haven't hosted Munster championship since 1993!

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 14/05/2017 17:41:58    1986597

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 944 - 15/05/2017 00:37:58    1986709

I would love it if this proposal was to come true. There would be some top class quality hurling played then. Also Galway would finally get a home game or two which they deserve and the supporters deserve.

oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts: 808 - 16/05/2017 23:33:17    1987354

Today's game is one of several reasons why the new proposals are BS.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 21/05/2017 18:01:14    1988875

In my own humble opinion the hurling group should be a Top 8 consisting of 2 groups of 4. 4 provincial finalists and 4 teams from the qualifiers.

Teams not making the group stage should have the option of entering a second championship with the winner advancing to the Top 8 group stage of the following year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 03/06/2017 15:22:00    1993934

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 03/06/2017 21:44:41    1994125

Word has it that the traditional strong counties want the following:

Munster: Limerick, Cork, Clare, Waterford, Tipperary and County A

Leinster: Galway, Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly and County B

Counties A and B would come from the developmental group which would likely contain Laois, Kerry, Westmeath, Antrim, Carlow and Kildare.

It's one thing Kerry playing in the Munster league in January. Munster Championship hurling is a completely different ball game. The traditional counties want lesser counties as a buffer to protect their status.

The better approach seems to be a Top 8 in 2 groups consisting of the 4 provincial finalists and 4 qualifiers.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 04/06/2017 09:28:53    1994249

If they are intent on a provincial group stage, I was musing on the following:

2 provincial groups of 5 as they are suggesting and a development group of 6.

The top 2 in the development group should advance to take on the 3rd placedprovincial teams in a play-off to make the All-Ireland quarter-finals.

If a team from the development group reaches the All-Ireland quarter-finals, they should be promoted to being the 6th team in a provincial group. In a year when a provincial group consists of 6 teams, the 6th placed team will have to be automatically relegated to the development group.

It will mean in any given year the provincial groups will consist of 5 or 6 teams. The development group will consist of 4, 5 or 6 teams. This is a small bit convoluted but it is a compromise solution between provincial groups of 5 or provincial groups of 6.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 04/06/2017 09:56:32    1994257

Continued...

They'll probably opt for 5 in Munster, 6 in Leinster and a development group. The development group winner will replace the 6th team in Leinster. The top 2 in the development group might both get an All-Ireland quarter-final playoff against the 3rd placed teams.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 04/06/2017 10:09:24    1994264

What I don't like about this new structure is that it will kill the Munster championship, have a load of hurling games in the lean months or May and June and Hurling will take a back seat during the height of the season while the football championship plays off its super 8s.

What I would to see happening is the hurling counties forming their own association to run hurling. An extremely controversial move I know. But as things stand hurking is being neglected by the GAA.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 04/06/2017 13:19:36    1994377

expe (UK) - Posts: 31 - 04/06/2017 14:53:11    1994446

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the football might opt for provincial groups in the future.

It might not be a bad thing for both codes to start off with different group stage structures as being suggested. It will give more information in practice on the best direction to take.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 04/06/2017 15:14:39    1994457

My suggestion, as promised earlier.

Munster Championship played as normal, no changes need making there.

Leinster Championship expanded to 14 teams, all 12 Leinster counties plus Galway and Kerry. 4 weakest counties (I used Kildare, Wicklow, Longford and Louth) play in a group stage as present, top two go through to the final 12, straight knockout from there, previous years finalists seeded and begin in the quarter finals. If the teams coming out of the group win their first round game, the losing team is relegated into the group stage.

Ulster Championship played with all 9 counties, like Leinster the weakest four (Tyrone, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Cavan), play in a group, winner goes through to one of two quarter finals, if they win the team they beat is relegated into the group, previous years champions are seeded and begin in the semi final, along with one other county that gets a bye.

A new Connacht Hurling League is created for the four remaining Connacht teams and London. Each team plays each other once with no final.

After that there would be three competitions, rather than four as now, with the Lory Meagher Cup being scrapped.

8 teams qualify for the Nicky Rackard Cup, the team finishing bottom of the group in Leinster, the three teams that don't qualify from the group in Ulster and the bottom two from the Connacht League, along with Lancashire and Warwickshire. They play straight knockout through to the final.

The Christy Ring Cup would also feature 8 teams, the team finishing 3rd in the group in Leinster, the four teams beaten in the Quarter and Semi Finals in Ulster and the top 3 from the Connacht League. Again like the Rackard, straight knockout.

The other 19 teams, so all 5 Munster counties, the teams that took part in the main stages of the Leinster Championship and the Ulster Finalists, would enter the All-Ireland. The stage they enter at would be determined by where they finish in their provincial championship. 6 teams would enter in Round 1, the Ulster Finalists and the four teams beaten in Round 1 in Leinster. The winners of those games would go through to Round 2, where another 5 teams would enter, the beaten quarter finalists from Munster and Leinster. The four teams that win in Round 2 would go through to Round 3, where the Leinster and Munster semi finalists enter. The winners from those games would meet the Leinster and Munster finalists. The Leinster and Munster champions would be seeded so that they couldn't play each other.

Other than when mentioned, all draws would be open and made round by round, not drawn into brackets right at the start as they are now and before the provincial semi finals and All-Ireland quarter finals would take place on a home and away basis as drawn, after that games to be played at suitable neutral venues.

Personally I think that keeps the parts of the current set up that work, provides extra games via the group stages for the teams that need them most, a pathway from the Ulster Championship into the All-Ireland that would hopefully give it a degree of relevancy and more games in the All-Ireland itself, with no one playing less than three games to become champions. Every team gets the opportunity to play in competitive games against teams of a similar standard to themselves, with the opportunity to test themselves against better teams. Long term as weaker sides hopefully improve it could be tweaked to add more sides into the All-Ireland, provide a route from Connacht into the All-Ireland and maybe even move Kerry back into the Munster Championship if they continue to improve.

expe (UK) - Posts: 31 - 04/06/2017 18:49:40    1994573

@Expe

I know the Ulster Championship had all counties involved in the Ulster Championship one year. Each county started at a round that reflected their 4 different levels. It was a good idea at the time. The current hurling tiered structure is a fair reflection of each counties level. A few years before Kerry relatively improved, I would have accepted if we had to drop to Rackard level. Thankfully things turned around.

I think to be fair the hurling provincial groups can work. The key is to integrate current qualifier group counties fairly within that structure:

* Have a 6th team in the Leinster group.
* Promote the top county from the so-called development group and relegate the 6th team in Leinster.
* Allow the top 2 from the development group home advantage in a play-off for the All-Ireland quarter-finals against the two 3rd placed teams.
- Development group counties will have to have some fair shot at the McCarthy Cup. Home advantage against the provincial 3rd placed teams will be a reasonable compromise.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 04/06/2017 20:42:34    1994655

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/06/2017 18:20:40    1995844

Very strange that the Leinster round robin will consist of 5 teams even before the Christy Ring Final has taken place meaning that both finalists are promoted. Yet last year (2016) when there was utter confusion regarding the result of Christy Ring Final the President of the GAA completely ruled out both finalists participating in Leinster in 2017 even as a way of getting his organisation out of a very embarrassing situation that was completely the fault of the authorities in Croke Park.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1063 - 06/06/2017 19:31:47    1995918

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 06/06/2017 19:38:24    1995928