Given the manner in which Galway were blown away last Sunday, is this evidence that the gap between the so-called "elite" teams and the rest is widening? Since the borderline professional approach to gaelic games became common in counties such as Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal, Kildare and now Mayo I believe that the day of the underdog story is now gone. No team who hasn't gone through the same system of planning and training as the aforementioned seems to have no chance of winning. So where does this leave the rest? Teams like Galway and Meath are prime example of teams who have remained ignorant to these changes and persisted with their traditional game only for it to fail any time they have challenged what I call "The Machine" that is teams in the same bracket as Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal etc.

So it appears the ultimatum for these teams is simply, get crushed or as they say, "get on my level". So how do people feel about this apparent "Professional Era" of Gaelic Football?

RoyalClass (Meath) - Posts: 790 - 21/05/2013 19:49:53    1388572

Are you basing all this on the Galway Mayo match? Mayo are a good side. Galway are a poor side atm its as simple as that.

doyle55 (Westmeath) - Posts: 13 - 21/05/2013 20:12:43    1388589

didnt donegal win the all ireland last year that would prove the underdog as you call it can still win

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/05/2013 20:32:19    1388599

RoyalClass
County: Meath
Posts: 575

1388572 Given the manner in which Galway were blown away last Sunday, is this evidence that the gap between the so-called "elite" teams and the rest is widening? Since the borderline professional approach to gaelic games became common in counties such as Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal, Kildare and now Mayo I believe that the day of the underdog story is now gone. No team who hasn't gone through the same system of planning and training as the aforementioned seems to have no chance of winning. So where does this leave the rest? Teams like Galway and Meath are prime example of teams who have remained ignorant to these changes and persisted with their traditional game only for it to fail any time they have challenged what I call "The Machine" that is teams in the same bracket as Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal etc.

So it appears the ultimatum for these teams is simply, get crushed or as they say, "get on my level". So how do people feel about this apparent "Professional Era" of Gaelic Football?

Thats a bit like saying the exams are getting harder in school and 4 or 5 students have decided to study more and are getting better results because of this. me and me pal are getting left behind because we are not studying as much, what should we do!!!

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 21/05/2013 20:35:50    1388603

Well said AthCliath!

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 21/05/2013 20:40:52    1388606

Given the manner in which Galway were blown away last Sunday, is this evidence that the gap between the so-called "elite" teams and the rest is widening? Since the borderline professional approach to gaelic games became common in counties such as Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal, Kildare and now Mayo I believe that the day of the underdog story is now gone. No team who hasn't gone through the same system of planning and training as the aforementioned seems to have no chance of winning. So where does this leave the rest? Teams like Galway and Meath are prime example of teams who have remained ignorant to these changes and persisted with their traditional game only for it to fail any time they have challenged what I call "The Machine" that is teams in the same bracket as Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal etc.

So it appears the ultimatum for these teams is simply, get crushed or as they say, "get on my level". So how do people feel about this apparent "Professional Era" of Gaelic Football?
21/05/2013 20:12:43


Before this years League Tyrone weren't perceived to be any great shakes and had just come out of Division 2, Dublin are dominating what is at present a weak Leinster, they have won 7 out of the last 8 provincials but have just one "Sam" in the bag, Kildare have won nothing of note and have flattered to deceive at every turn, a team with a professional approach wouldn't have taken the tanking like the one Dublin gave them in their league match, Mayo are improving and I believe are genuine contenders for September but they have just beaten one of the poorest Galway teams I have ever seen, I wouldn't be losing the run of myself over that just yet, Donegal are the one team that we can say have definitely changed their whole outlook by a fresh professional approach but then again look what the approach was like before that, frequent indiscipline and stories of wild nights were rampant, God knows what they would have won by now if McGuinness had got his hands on them a few years earlier. Perhaps we should wait and see what transpires during the year before deciding who is the elite and who is not

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3772 - 21/05/2013 20:51:20    1388615

doyle55
County: Westmeath
Posts: 7

1388589
Are you basing all this on the Galway Mayo match? Mayo are a good side. Galway are a poor side atm its as simple as that.


It ain't that simple at all, in fact RoyalClass makes a very interesting and valid point. Gaelic football has revolutionized hugely in the last 11 years. Mayo and Tyrone are traditionally weaker counties, look at them both now, challenging for Sam year on year. Kerry football has not evolved to the same extent as the other counties, but they were able to rely on talent which was unrivalled in other counties to get them by. That talent is drying up however. But the modern game requires perfection in planning and preparation, good athletes are now just as important as good footballers, its about finding a balance.

Galway had the best young players in the country on show the last day. Them young lads have been winning AI's for fun at underage. But they were not as well prepared, they were tactically in disarray, and physically much weaker than a far superior Mayo team, not in footballing terms, but in application and fitness.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 21/05/2013 21:02:56    1388618

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1824

1388618 doyle55
County: Westmeath
Posts: 7

1388589
Are you basing all this on the Galway Mayo match? Mayo are a good side. Galway are a poor side atm its as simple as that.


It ain't that simple at all, in fact RoyalClass makes a very interesting and valid point. Gaelic football has revolutionized hugely in the last 11 years. Mayo and Tyrone are traditionally weaker counties, look at them both now, challenging for Sam year on year. Kerry football has not evolved to the same extent as the other counties, but they were able to rely on talent which was unrivalled in other counties to get them by. That talent is drying up however. But the modern game requires perfection in planning and preparation, good athletes are now just as important as good footballers, its about finding a balance.

Galway had the best young players in the country on show the last day. Them young lads have been winning AI's for fun at underage. But they were not as well prepared, they were tactically in disarray, and physically much weaker than a far superior Mayo team, not in footballing terms, but in application and fitness.

Youve just given the reason Galway were beaten ,it would of happened in any era, difference now is your punished more for lack of preparation.
Thats the same for every sport ,everything moves forward with new technology in training and diet and coaching , if you dont embrace it you get left behind its that simple. football formations are a different arguement and Mayo had better footballers on Sunday.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 21/05/2013 21:25:39    1388640

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1824

Exactly my point Slash. It appears that unless county's start adapting to this professional 100% intensity/blanket defense/counter attack system they're going to come out steam-rolled. When I stated that the day of the underdog is gone this is what I meant. Hypothetically speaking, say if Leitrim make the Connacht final with Mayo; Leitrim naively decide to go 15 to 15 with Mayo whilst ignoring the blanket defense/counter attack method. We all know how that will go given its Mayo they will play, the apparant "Elite" team in this sequence.

We see that some of the lesser teams have adapted and are starting to become competitive and this seems the only means of survival in the modern era. Laois, Westmeath, Cavan, Fermanagh are teams that immediately spring to mind.

RoyalClass (Meath) - Posts: 790 - 21/05/2013 21:30:28    1388643

I think RoyalClass also has a valid point. I know he is talking about football but I want to give an example in hurling. A few years ago I listened to a speech by Brian Cody outlining partially why Kilkenny are successful. He spoke of a set up and a regime that is incredibly professional-from their sponsors, county board, backroom staff etc. It was and is an incredible professionally set up.

Cork under Donal O Grady and John Allen had a similar approach and for a brief period of time we were competing with KK. While KK have continued their approach we changed our system (I DO NOT want to talk about strikes etc) and fell away. Tipp under Liam Sheedy had a great set up and then went into disarray under Declan Ryan. In hurling, at least there is a clear elite and it is the most professionally set up.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 21/05/2013 21:35:03    1388646

RoyalClass
County: Meath
Posts: 576

1388572 Given the manner in which Galway were blown away last Sunday, is this evidence that the gap between the so-called "elite" teams and the rest is widening?

I don't think so. Anyone can still make the break through. Last five winners - Tír Eoghain, Ciarraí, Corcaigh, Áth Cliath agus Dún na nGall. Where were Dún na nGall and Áth Cliath when Ciarraí and Tír Eghain were winning theirs? Where have Títr Eoghain been since up until this year? I genuinely do not think so.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 21/05/2013 21:39:17    1388652

Aye its too hard this oul training craic.........ye should be able to show up after a feed o' pints the night before and still be fit te play.An oul fag and half an orange at half time...........bottle o' miracle water incase ye get an oul boot round the shins.Good te go.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 22/05/2013 09:41:14    1388708

Jumping the gun a little id say. What we learned from that game was that galway were not capable of competing, not everyone. I think the league this year has prepared the D1 teams far better than the others. Those teams are flying it, no question. They are very fit because they needed to be to compete with each other, and mentally they are coming in knowing they have already faced down every top team in the country. They are a tough proposition this time of the year and we could see a few hidings early on.
What will be intersting is what happens this weekend, where donegal, who didnt buy in to that ethos and let the league pass them by, face tyrone, who bought in more than most. Will donegal have left it too late to catch up?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/05/2013 09:57:57    1388719

People use the word 'professional' to describe the approach of the 'elite'. Of course it is not professional. What it is, is that totally single minded individuals like Harte, McGuinness, Gilroy, O'Connor, Counihan, Horan, Gavin (I hope!!) (Cody and Sheehy and Cunningham in hurling) gather around them a similar bunch of like minded players and demand absolute commitment and dedication to winning. It is hugely time consuming and takes a massive physical and mental effort but it works. Others have mentioned Westmeath and Cavan as possibly being prepared to take that step up to challenge.

Hopefully. If they do it will be by following the template set by the others. Unless teams are prepared to do that - and it is obvious from watching some of the almost rans that they are not - then they will achieve nothing. I wouldn't be too hard on Galway. They are young and not in the same mental place as Mayo as a lot of them, perhaps even Mulholland, are still thinking in terms of under 21s and not adjusted yet to the senior scene where they are capable of challenging the likes of Mayo.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 22/05/2013 10:21:32    1388736

I think what RoyalClass is saying is that football has become a professional sport nowadays except the players obviously don't get paid which contradicts the earlier statement.

Years ago players trained a few times a week played the league and championship went home afterwards. The winners of the matches depended on who had the most gifted 15 players on the pitch. It was as simple as that.

It's all changed since then, outdoor training isn't enough. Weights training is a big part, players watch their diet an awful lot more now, bigger emphasis on tactics and not to mention the sport performance tests carried out by most counties. Nowadays gifted footballers isn't enough you also need them to be extremely athletic and preferably stronger than was required years ago!

I think Donegal and Kildare are good examples. I don't want this to look like I'm having a dig at them. At the moment in ye modern game they posses some of the finest athletes in the country, however prior to their new turn in management I would argue that they only had a handful of quality footballers. Now they have 20-25 highly conditioned and well worked athletes. I'd go as far as to say the only reason Donegal are winning and Kildare seem to fall short time and time again is that Donegal just seem to have two or three more gifted footballers than Kildare.

tic_for_tac (Meath) - Posts: 151 - 22/05/2013 10:22:00    1388737

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7038

1388719 Jumping the gun a little id say. What we learned from that game was that galway were not capable of competing, not everyone. I think the league this year has prepared the D1 teams far better than the others. Those teams are flying it, no question. They are very fit because they needed to be to compete with each other, and mentally they are coming in knowing they have already faced down every top team in the country. They are a tough proposition this time of the year and we could see a few hidings early on.

It's very rare for me to say this about any of your hogan stand posts but you are 100% correct with this.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 22/05/2013 10:22:02    1388738

Don't buy into the league thing as much as others, kerry and cork for example will have one game to get to quarter final the looser of that encounter will then havr another game, win that still in quarters. Mayo had galway who lets be honest got stage freight on the day, that happens, the we are in this position because of playing in div 1 is over used, your in that position cause Munster and connacht championship are a joke. And maybe should be joined up to produce a better format,
I see RC point and actual fact said something similar before, there is realistically only 4 counties that can win all ire, dub, donegal, Kerry, cork. Mayo and Tyrone come in next group and while they could win all ire it is still unlikely. The rest follow a good distance behind

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/05/2013 10:31:20    1388746

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 3734

I see RC point and actual fact said something similar before, there is realistically only 4 counties that can win all ire, dub, donegal, Kerry, cork. Mayo and Tyrone come in next group and while they could win all ire it is still unlikely. The rest follow a good distance behind

No one would have said the Dubs had a chance of winning the All Ireland after the hammering we got off your own county in 2010. In early 2011 no one would have said Dun na nGall had a chance. Where were Maigh Eo until two years ago? I really cannot see his point royal dunne. Since 2001 7 counties have won the All Ireland - Na Dubs, Corcaigh, Ciarraí, Tír Eoghain, Ard Mhacha, Gaillimh agus Dún na nGall. What other sports can boast 7 different winners of the top competition in 12 years?? Not many, i'd imigane. If you were to go back to 1991 you would have a further three winners. An Mhí, Doire agus An Dún. Thats 10 in 22 years. Of course anyone can break in to the top group. I think people have to stop looking for negatives and problems when they are cleary not there.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 22/05/2013 10:42:55    1388762

Mickey Harte recently claimed that noone outside of Division 1 will win Sam. He's right on that, I'd say. I saw Galway during the league & thought they were quite poor (as were Laois). They try to play the blanket system working the ball out of defence but kept getting turned over by Mayo (who I believe are SERIOUS All-Ireland contenders). They are a very professional outfit & are several years into their conditioning. It was men against boys, simple as that.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4105 - 22/05/2013 10:55:47    1388769

keeper7
County: Longford
Posts: 1176

1388769 Mickey Harte recently claimed that noone outside of Division 1 will win Sam. He's right on that, I'd say. I saw Galway during the league & thought they were quite poor (as were Laois). They try to play the blanket system working the ball out of defence but kept getting turned over by Mayo (who I believe are SERIOUS All-Ireland contenders). They are a very professional outfit & are several years into their conditioning. It was men against boys, simple as that.

Ye, but Galway or anyone else could get there with the right people and the right set up behind them. I include your own county in that. What Jim McGuinness did, in my opnion, is transformed a misture of very talented footballers and average footballers into an unbelievele and superpowered unit. From the start to the end of the Championship it is the unit that won them the All Ireland. I feel that had McGuinness takien over any other county that they'd also be competing for silverware now. There is talented footballers in every county but its the the talent mixed with the work ethic and teamwork that gets you over the line. Not everyone can have natural talent but everyone can have a good work ethic and can have good fitness.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 22/05/2013 11:10:41    1388783