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For me I would have only had three proper dual counties in the country:
1 - Cork
2 - Galway
3 - Offaly
Offaly have fallen off a cliff in the last 15 years. But they were in five All-Ireland Football Finals between 1969 and 1982, winning three. Seven All-Ireland Hurling Finals between 1981 and 2000, winning five. Whatever their struggles in the last 15 years, I would still class them as a proper dual county.
Cork and Galway have been consistently strong in both codes. Threatening for provincial titles most years, and in the hunt for All-Ireland Finals in at least one code most years.
As for the others, there is clearly one dominant code. Dublin has a chance, long term, at becoming a dual county. The others, although they might have a good year every now and again (Tipperary 2016 in football, Clare Quarter-Final last year and Munster title in 1992, Wexford reaching the football semi-final in 2008, Limerick drawing with Kerry in the 2004 Munster Football Final), but it's a stretch to call them dual counties.
The others mentioned:
Waterford - if anyone from outside Waterford can name one player on their football team, I'd be shocked.
Kerry - if anyone from outside Kerry can name one player on their hurling team, I'd be shocked.
Laois - maybe. They don't make enough impact in either code, really
Texas (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 03/03/2017 21:35:43
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Replying To bennybunny: "Agree with Brian Mac .
The below must be the criteria.
1.Which one promotes both games equally?
2. which one has the highest percentage of clubs dedicated to both?
3. which one encourages its players to play both openly?
1. It may be very hard to get it 50% equally but in Cork it must be close.
2. In nominal terms we are definitely number 1. in terms of percentage (the fairer figure) we must be close to it but perhaps Tipperary or Limerick may be ahead.
3. This is club specific I would say. Larger clubs in Cork, Dublin, Belfast have an advantage in being able to provide senior hurling and football teams. Slaughtneil are a shining an example of what can be done in smaller areas. A gem of a club and the epitome of the GAA is all about. Every club in Ireland should take note." Number 3 can be county specific too. Limerick definitely discourages players to play both since we had many dual county players in the mid 2000's and started becoming competitive in football.
They now make U18's choose between playing intercounty hurling & football for Limerick, which makes it much harder for football as any good dual player will be encouraged to play hurling....
county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 03/03/2017 21:37:43
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Replying To Texas: "For me I would have only had three proper dual counties in the country:
1 - Cork
2 - Galway
3 - Offaly
Offaly have fallen off a cliff in the last 15 years. But they were in five All-Ireland Football Finals between 1969 and 1982, winning three. Seven All-Ireland Hurling Finals between 1981 and 2000, winning five. Whatever their struggles in the last 15 years, I would still class them as a proper dual county.
Cork and Galway have been consistently strong in both codes. Threatening for provincial titles most years, and in the hunt for All-Ireland Finals in at least one code most years.
As for the others, there is clearly one dominant code. Dublin has a chance, long term, at becoming a dual county. The others, although they might have a good year every now and again (Tipperary 2016 in football, Clare Quarter-Final last year and Munster title in 1992, Wexford reaching the football semi-final in 2008, Limerick drawing with Kerry in the 2004 Munster Football Final), but it's a stretch to call them dual counties.
The others mentioned:
Waterford - if anyone from outside Waterford can name one player on their football team, I'd be shocked.
Kerry - if anyone from outside Kerry can name one player on their hurling team, I'd be shocked.
Laois - maybe. They don't make enough impact in either code, really" Great stats on Offaly. But where has it all went wrong since then??
Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 04/03/2017 02:24:02
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Replying To Texas: "For me I would have only had three proper dual counties in the country:
1 - Cork
2 - Galway
3 - Offaly
Offaly have fallen off a cliff in the last 15 years. But they were in five All-Ireland Football Finals between 1969 and 1982, winning three. Seven All-Ireland Hurling Finals between 1981 and 2000, winning five. Whatever their struggles in the last 15 years, I would still class them as a proper dual county.
Cork and Galway have been consistently strong in both codes. Threatening for provincial titles most years, and in the hunt for All-Ireland Finals in at least one code most years.
As for the others, there is clearly one dominant code. Dublin has a chance, long term, at becoming a dual county. The others, although they might have a good year every now and again (Tipperary 2016 in football, Clare Quarter-Final last year and Munster title in 1992, Wexford reaching the football semi-final in 2008, Limerick drawing with Kerry in the 2004 Munster Football Final), but it's a stretch to call them dual counties.
The others mentioned:
Waterford - if anyone from outside Waterford can name one player on their football team, I'd be shocked.
Kerry - if anyone from outside Kerry can name one player on their hurling team, I'd be shocked.
Laois - maybe. They don't make enough impact in either code, really" Wouldn't have offaly 3rd, offaly have 4 hurling all irelands and 3 football all irelands, Dublin have 26 football and 6 hurling, tipp have 27 hurling and 4 football.
tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 04/03/2017 08:35:38
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If the criteria is being competitive in both codes then only galway , cork and to a lesser extent Dublin would be over a long period of time. Wexford, tipp, down, Limerick, offaly, Clare and derry have had their moments but is rarely sustained.
As for the different issue of promoting equally, my own county galway would be bottom of the list. We have 80 clubs, 35 hurling only, 35 football only, and 10 dual. Of the 10 dual, only 3 have hurling and football intermediate and above, and only Maigh Cuilin would be that way consistently. Allot of clubs along the hurling football divide would have sister clubs. But take Joe canning, if he wanted football, the nearest club was ballinisloe 20 miles away.
Galway, geographically is like so. West of the corrib and north of the n81 would be all football with the odd exception, most teams intermediate and above. Between the n81 and N6, there's a mixture, with a large number of sister clubs, like Caltra & ahascaragh being neighbours. Then south of the m6 is hurling, with little or no football. Ironically, galways football captain Gary o Donnell is from this area, played for gort at junior level for many years, before transferring to tuam 30 miles away. The ironic thing is that it's easier to play soccer in gort and kinvara than football, and rugby than hurling in clifden. Promoting both games equally, we'd be near the bottom.
galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 04/03/2017 09:18:46
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Replying To Brolly: "Great stats on Offaly. But where has it all went wrong since then??" Yeah I agree. Dublin could become a proper dual dominant country with time. Galway are roughly around the same level if you rate both counties performances in hurling and football combined. Maybe Galway winning out; as their Football team is slightly stronger than Dublin's hurling team at the minute in reference to their sport. Although Dublin's football team are just a few points above Galway's hurlers so it's a toss up between them.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 04/03/2017 09:20:37
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Replying To galwaydublin: "If the criteria is being competitive in both codes then only galway , cork and to a lesser extent Dublin would be over a long period of time. Wexford, tipp, down, Limerick, offaly, Clare and derry have had their moments but is rarely sustained.
As for the different issue of promoting equally, my own county galway would be bottom of the list. We have 80 clubs, 35 hurling only, 35 football only, and 10 dual. Of the 10 dual, only 3 have hurling and football intermediate and above, and only Maigh Cuilin would be that way consistently. Allot of clubs along the hurling football divide would have sister clubs. But take Joe canning, if he wanted football, the nearest club was ballinisloe 20 miles away.
Galway, geographically is like so. West of the corrib and north of the n81 would be all football with the odd exception, most teams intermediate and above. Between the n81 and N6, there's a mixture, with a large number of sister clubs, like Caltra & ahascaragh being neighbours. Then south of the m6 is hurling, with little or no football. Ironically, galways football captain Gary o Donnell is from this area, played for gort at junior level for many years, before transferring to tuam 30 miles away. The ironic thing is that it's easier to play soccer in gort and kinvara than football, and rugby than hurling in clifden. Promoting both games equally, we'd be near the bottom." Its really hard to know what to make of Galway, lets be honest before moving to leinster they were straight into a semi final every year, can be agrued both ways as to whether this was in their favour or not. For me, Cork are well out ahead as the best dual county historically, After that theres alot of different arguments for the rest. Galway every 3 years would have had to play antrim to get to an all ireland hurling final which makes them look probably better than they realistically were when basing it on numbers and appearances, tipp and dublin are much more dominant in one code than the other but have both had their spells in both codes, Then you have the wexford and offaly who both enjoyed spells at both bodes but i wouldnt be having them in terms of "being the best" just because they are at a near equal level in both.
For me id go Cork, Dublin, Galway/TIpp (cant decide for reasons above), Wexford and Offaly
(imagine ill draw alot of angst over my thoughts on Galway!!)
tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 04/03/2017 09:52:26
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Replying To tipp11: "Its really hard to know what to make of Galway, lets be honest before moving to leinster they were straight into a semi final every year, can be agrued both ways as to whether this was in their favour or not. For me, Cork are well out ahead as the best dual county historically, After that theres alot of different arguments for the rest. Galway every 3 years would have had to play antrim to get to an all ireland hurling final which makes them look probably better than they realistically were when basing it on numbers and appearances, tipp and dublin are much more dominant in one code than the other but have both had their spells in both codes, Then you have the wexford and offaly who both enjoyed spells at both bodes but i wouldnt be having them in terms of "being the best" just because they are at a near equal level in both.
For me id go Cork, Dublin, Galway/TIpp (cant decide for reasons above), Wexford and Offaly
(imagine ill draw alot of angst over my thoughts on Galway!!)" Tipp11, you're drawing angst over Galway in this reply due to your historical inaccuracies. You stated Galway had to beat Antrim every 3 years to get to an AIF, that never happened. Galway played the munster and leinster winners every 2 years in AISF, when they qualified directly. During the eighties, Galway qualified for finals in 80, 81, 85,86,87,88 and 90 (not the 80s i know), and their semi final victims in those years were Offaly, Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Offaly, and Offaly. Correct me if i'm wrong, Where is Antrim on that list? I've no problem with you having any opinion on Galway, but please base it on historical happenings.
galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 04/03/2017 12:49:08
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Replying To galwaydublin: "Tipp11, you're drawing angst over Galway in this reply due to your historical inaccuracies. You stated Galway had to beat Antrim every 3 years to get to an AIF, that never happened. Galway played the munster and leinster winners every 2 years in AISF, when they qualified directly. During the eighties, Galway qualified for finals in 80, 81, 85,86,87,88 and 90 (not the 80s i know), and their semi final victims in those years were Offaly, Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Offaly, and Offaly. Correct me if i'm wrong, Where is Antrim on that list? I've no problem with you having any opinion on Galway, but please base it on historical happenings." I stand corrected, I didn't look up semis results I had only presumed that with yer non connaught championship that like now the provinces alternated every year which they played. Hands up, got that wrong.
tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 04/03/2017 14:39:54
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Replying To tipp11: "I stand corrected, I didn't look up semis results I had only presumed that with yer non connaught championship that like now the provinces alternated every year which they played. Hands up, got that wrong." Bit of a big mistake though surely, to be so grossly uninformed on the subject matter that you're offering 'your opinion' on. Imagine thinking that Antrim/Galway played a senior semi every three years. That's nothing short of hilarious.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3446 - 06/03/2017 11:26:40
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Have to feel sorry for the footballing folk in Tipp with what happened over the weekend with canceling their fixture, unfortunately they face an uphill battle in their own county to make inroads.
TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 06/03/2017 12:05:27
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Replying To TheWestIsAwake: "Have to feel sorry for the footballing folk in Tipp with what happened over the weekend with canceling their fixture, unfortunately they face an uphill battle in their own county to make inroads." Posters on here would want to ease up on the Tipperary lack of respect towards the footballers. I think that football match being called off showed the height of respect within the County to the footballers. There's a few lads carrying injuries in the football squad and a week off would be welcomed to facilitate their return especially with such a young panel and an U21 football match to play this week, it may not be showing much respect for the Longford footballers but rest assured Tipperary county board are well able to look after their own.
GoldenVale (UK) - Posts: 22 - 06/03/2017 13:24:34
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The fact that it was fixed as a doubleheader shows the Tipp CB are trying to promote the 2 games. After the recent heavy rainfall it wasn't feasible to play both games so can anyone say what they'd have done in that situation?
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 06/03/2017 13:42:18
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Replying To TheWestIsAwake: "Have to feel sorry for the footballing folk in Tipp with what happened over the weekend with canceling their fixture, unfortunately they face an uphill battle in their own county to make inroads." Same goes for the Hurling players in most counties ,Hurling is far more important to protect than g football
southerncat79 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 80 - 08/03/2017 14:49:38
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hurling counties shifting towards football? clare tipp wexford and galway?
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2845 - 08/03/2017 15:30:52
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "hurling counties shifting towards football? clare tipp wexford and galway?" Wexford heading towards football is this a wind up
Teddy5 (Wexford) - Posts: 122 - 08/03/2017 16:07:41
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Replying To Breffni39: "No one has included Cavan and we have multiple provincial and AI football honours and the same in handball with multiple world titles as well. No doubt the dual county elitists will ignore this." The anti handball snobbery is rife Breffni!
In fact, our footballers along could be considered dual elitists having won Sam not only in ireland but across the pond too. .a unique achievement!
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 08/03/2017 16:43:01
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "hurling counties shifting towards football? clare tipp wexford and galway?" On a pro rata basis the likes of Carlow and Wicklow have done trogon work to keep both codes going albeit at their own level, never the less, they could have abandoned one and put all their energies into the other and hope to reap the benefits, (if any).
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2908 - 08/03/2017 20:02:15
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I went for a more scientific approach. I found a website (Boylesport) that offered odds on the football and hurling championships. I worked out how much the winnings would be if you put an accumulator on all the available counties (13 of them as far as I could see) doing the double, and I determined, assuming that I worked it out correctly, that Dublin have the best shot at doing the double, and therefore they're probably the "best" dual county.
Hurling odds:
Dublin: 28/1
Tipp: 5/4
Galway: 6/1
Cork: 20/1
Clare: 15/2
Kerry: 1000/1
Waterford: 7/1
Limerick: 20/1
Meath: 1000/1
Wexford: 50/1
Laois: 1000/1
Offaly: 500/1
Westmeath: 1000/1
Football odds:
Dublin: 5/4
Tipp: 66/1
Galway: 33/1
Cork: 25/1
Clare: 200/1
Kerry: 4/1
Waterford: 1000/1
Limerick: 2500/1
Meath: 66/1
Wexford: 2000/1
Laois: 300/1
Offaly: 1000/1
Westmeath: 500/1
Winnings for each county if you bet €1.00 on them to win the hurling, then placed the winnings on a bet to win the football (assuming the same odds and forgetting the fact that there's be only two teams left in it at this stage...) (not forgetting to subtract the original €1 stake
Dublin: €64.25
Tipp: €149.75
Galway: €237.00
Cork: €545.00
Clare: €1,707.50
Kerry: €5,004.00
Waterford: €8,007.00
Limerick: €52,520.00
Meath: €67,066.00
Wexford: €102,050.00
Laois: €301,300.00
Offaly: €501,500.00
Westmeath: €501,500.00
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1040 - 09/03/2017 11:22:27
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Replying To Teddy5: "Wexford heading towards football is this a wind up" there are more club footballers in wexford than hurlers, thats a fact , wexford hurling folks are like trump , they wont accept facts, check the facts please
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2845 - 09/03/2017 11:44:51
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