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Defence clap clap clap.. Defence clap clap clap

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WHY is it any time Dublin drop points it's ALWAYS the fault of 1. The pitch. 2. The referee. 3. The weather. 4. The opposition set up. 5. Defensive football. 6. Noddies not. Their constant whinging really is a bit of a boke.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 27/02/2017 20:05:47    1961808

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "WHY is it any time Dublin drop points it's ALWAYS the fault of 1. The pitch. 2. The referee. 3. The weather. 4. The opposition set up. 5. Defensive football. 6. Noddies not. Their constant whinging really is a bit of a boke."
6. Noddies not????? That should read Nordies Noddies Not sounds like a dogging place up the country.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 27/02/2017 20:26:14    1961822

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Replying To royaldunne:  "What do you think of having to kick after a handpass? This was muted before. I know it was 3 handpass . honest question."
I know where your coming from with all this handpassing lateral and backwards most games are won on possession and least amount of mistakes made these days and teams are not going to be kicking the ball away for the sake of it. I think the referee on the pitch has enough to be doing without counting handpasses. It didn't work in the 90's so I doubt it would work now. All that would happen is fellas would just kick the ball 15 yards sideways or backwards. Can't see an easy solution to this epidemic of handpasses because if there is one thing I hate in tradinng it is handpassing drills. Would rather do laps than them!!!!!

Bain (Donegal) - Posts: 470 - 27/02/2017 21:13:13    1961847

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Replying To Bain:  "I know where your coming from with all this handpassing lateral and backwards most games are won on possession and least amount of mistakes made these days and teams are not going to be kicking the ball away for the sake of it. I think the referee on the pitch has enough to be doing without counting handpasses. It didn't work in the 90's so I doubt it would work now. All that would happen is fellas would just kick the ball 15 yards sideways or backwards. Can't see an easy solution to this epidemic of handpasses because if there is one thing I hate in tradinng it is handpassing drills. Would rather do laps than them!!!!!"
If players were forced to kick after a handpass then you'd just have players basically soloing the ball into another players hand.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13709 - 28/02/2017 08:24:18    1961921

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "WHY is it any time Dublin drop points it's ALWAYS the fault of 1. The pitch. 2. The referee. 3. The weather. 4. The opposition set up. 5. Defensive football. 6. Noddies not. Their constant whinging really is a bit of a boke."
The same can be said for absolutely every county team including your beloved Noddies!!!! You're just hypersensitive to all things Dublin bless you!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 28/02/2017 09:56:31    1961937

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I can't really understand the fascination the expert pundits have with kick passing. Yes it is nice to see a good kick pass or a long diagonal ball being gathered by an inside forward but it's a very risky strategy to adopt in the modern game. Watching the so called golden era of football, back when the likes of Spillane played, is like watching football with a Benny Hill tune accompanying it. Players used to gather the ball and just belt it down the field. Kamikaze stuff altogether.

The way teams are so fit now and retain the ball it is criminal to be giving away soft possession.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 28/02/2017 10:46:39    1961965

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The reality is if one team sets up 15 behind the ball, the other team is forced to put bodies behind the ball otherwise it will get picked off at will for easy scores as the Dublin Donegal 2014 game showed

When Ulster teams the games always tend to play out this way , whereas you usually get more open games when they are not involved

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 28/02/2017 10:50:50    1961967

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Honest question Hill. Would you really watch the Dubs winning by 23 points and it been over at half time or watch a good tight hard match that's close till the end? I know what match I would prefer."
Honest answer I go to see Dublin playing.
I support Dublin only.
be that against Kerry or mayo or longford or leitrim my sole interest is in supporting Dublin.
I want to see Dublin play good football and win each time.
the opposition are just that the team we have to play and beat as far as I'm concerned and I enjoy that each time i go and support Dublin.
I look for the same thing each time regardless of the opposition it's Dublins performance my focus is with.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/02/2017 11:35:10    1961987

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "I mean if the Dubs had of won by 1 point."
You mean on Sunday?
I wasn't happy with the performance for one regardless of the result.
I wasn't happy with the team selection as it lacked any real forward firepower and was clear from the off Gavin was expecting that type of game and set out a team to try something different against it.
for me I didn't enjoy seeing that type of game regardless of the result as Dublin best these set ups comfortably when playing attacking good football and not cagey football like they done on Sunday

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/02/2017 11:40:18    1961991

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "The reality is if one team sets up 15 behind the ball, the other team is forced to put bodies behind the ball otherwise it will get picked off at will for easy scores as the Dublin Donegal 2014 game showed

When Ulster teams the games always tend to play out this way , whereas you usually get more open games when they are not involved"
Prove it.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 28/02/2017 11:43:21    1961993

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "The reality is if one team sets up 15 behind the ball, the other team is forced to put bodies behind the ball otherwise it will get picked off at will for easy scores as the Dublin Donegal 2014 game showed

When Ulster teams the games always tend to play out this way , whereas you usually get more open games when they are not involved"
I think it comes down to degrees of defensiveness now rather than how open a game is. It is the way all games evolve. You build from the back. The GAA was just a late developer in this regard.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 28/02/2017 12:19:58    1962007

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "I can't really understand the fascination the expert pundits have with kick passing. Yes it is nice to see a good kick pass or a long diagonal ball being gathered by an inside forward but it's a very risky strategy to adopt in the modern game. Watching the so called golden era of football, back when the likes of Spillane played, is like watching football with a Benny Hill tune accompanying it. Players used to gather the ball and just belt it down the field. Kamikaze stuff altogether.

The way teams are so fit now and retain the ball it is criminal to be giving away soft possession."
It's a bit of a strange one really and it is funny watching games form the 70's and 80's because the ball retention from teams was so bad. As you said Lockjaw it was hit and hope stuff most of the time. Nowadays teams like Kerry, Mayo and Dublin as well as others (Tipperary in 2016) have modified the kicking tactics and only kick when there is a high percentage of finding their target and because skill levels are much better now ball retention is also alot better. Other teams like Tyrone and Donegal play to their strenghts and play a mainly running handpassing game as this suits the players they have available to them. The running games requires several players breaking at pace from defense into attack and this would be also another reason why teams get men behind the ball when defending so when there is a turnover they have plenty of players to break at speed out of defense.

Everyone has their own preference on which style they prefer and that's fair enough. I personally like watching both. It's the same in any sport. If you look at soccer, people generally don't like long ball/direct tactic adopted by the likes of a Tony Pullis or Big Sam but still accept it (without asking for rule changes etc.) and much prefer watching a short passing possession type tactic e.g Barcelona which when you think about it is the exact opposite to GAA football. There can be pretty poor games for the netueral when 2 teams cancel each other out (Ulster final 2016) but there always has been poor games and there always will be. As a Donegal supporter I know we have been invloved in some poor games for the netueral over the past 6 years but we have been involved in some classics as well v Kildare 2011, Kerry and Cork 2012 and Dublin in 2014 spring to mind as entertaining games at the business end of the championship and there have been several leagues games that have produced the goods. Nowadys I think people love to complain when there is a bad game even if there are mitagating circumstances (Like the weather on sunday). Football is changing all the time and people need to move with it. They don't always have to like every aspect to it but can we not try to enjoy new things without moaning at every possible opportunity??

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/02/2017 12:27:28    1962012

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But lads the focus on ball retention can work against you far more.
take dublin on Sunday we dominated possession in that first half recycled over and over yet only were four points up.
we could have had 6 or 7 efforts at the posts maybe missing 4 or 5 of them but possibly scoring 2 or 3 of them.
instead Donegal scored one point after thirty seconds another 25 minutes later from a silly free given away when Dublin had the ball and then two goals in thirty seconds. They barely had possesion for the entire first half yet went in three points ahead.
so ball retention and unwillingness to shoot unless in a very good position clearly worked against Dublin in that half.
at the end of the day you have to shoot to score and the only way you can win a game is to score more than the opposition

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/02/2017 12:41:24    1962028

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Replying To Mobot:  "It's a bit of a strange one really and it is funny watching games form the 70's and 80's because the ball retention from teams was so bad. As you said Lockjaw it was hit and hope stuff most of the time. Nowadays teams like Kerry, Mayo and Dublin as well as others (Tipperary in 2016) have modified the kicking tactics and only kick when there is a high percentage of finding their target and because skill levels are much better now ball retention is also alot better. Other teams like Tyrone and Donegal play to their strenghts and play a mainly running handpassing game as this suits the players they have available to them. The running games requires several players breaking at pace from defense into attack and this would be also another reason why teams get men behind the ball when defending so when there is a turnover they have plenty of players to break at speed out of defense.

Everyone has their own preference on which style they prefer and that's fair enough. I personally like watching both. It's the same in any sport. If you look at soccer, people generally don't like long ball/direct tactic adopted by the likes of a Tony Pullis or Big Sam but still accept it (without asking for rule changes etc.) and much prefer watching a short passing possession type tactic e.g Barcelona which when you think about it is the exact opposite to GAA football. There can be pretty poor games for the netueral when 2 teams cancel each other out (Ulster final 2016) but there always has been poor games and there always will be. As a Donegal supporter I know we have been invloved in some poor games for the netueral over the past 6 years but we have been involved in some classics as well v Kildare 2011, Kerry and Cork 2012 and Dublin in 2014 spring to mind as entertaining games at the business end of the championship and there have been several leagues games that have produced the goods. Nowadys I think people love to complain when there is a bad game even if there are mitagating circumstances (Like the weather on sunday). Football is changing all the time and people need to move with it. They don't always have to like every aspect to it but can we not try to enjoy new things without moaning at every possible opportunity??"
Excellent post Mobot . A very balanced and insightful piece of writing .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 28/02/2017 12:46:32    1962034

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Prove it."
Game involving Kerry, Mayo , Dublin are generally a lot more open than when any of them play an Ulster side as they know they have to protect against counter attacks and easy scores when they play them

Look at Kerry in 2014, played 5 games up until the final which were all high-scoring, exciting and competitive (bar Cork game) and then the final which was an Ugly Duckling of a game. I understand it's the prerogative of managers to do what they think will win a game but it is certainly attractive for spectators and not how the game was intended to be played when it was devised

With all the hand wringing about Congress and formats blah blah it'd be more in line to actually fix the ills of the game otherwise the dwindiling attendances will only continue

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 28/02/2017 13:38:26    1962073

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Replying To hill16no1man:  "But lads the focus on ball retention can work against you far more.
take dublin on Sunday we dominated possession in that first half recycled over and over yet only were four points up.
we could have had 6 or 7 efforts at the posts maybe missing 4 or 5 of them but possibly scoring 2 or 3 of them.
instead Donegal scored one point after thirty seconds another 25 minutes later from a silly free given away when Dublin had the ball and then two goals in thirty seconds. They barely had possesion for the entire first half yet went in three points ahead.
so ball retention and unwillingness to shoot unless in a very good position clearly worked against Dublin in that half.
at the end of the day you have to shoot to score and the only way you can win a game is to score more than the opposition"
True to an extent. But I feel that the conditions last Sunday have to be taken into account. The players are only human. Dean Rock missed some frees that he'd normally put over in his slippers. I remember Caolan Ward shot awfully and tamely wide when in an excellent position at one point in the second half. Also, to bring you back to 2014 - Dublin gave a master class in long range shooting in the first half that day (Flynn, Connolly and McMahon from memory scored some absolute beauties). The difficulty is that as games wear on, limbs and minds get more tired and the technique required to land those type of scores becomes even more difficult.

I think that goes some way to excusing Donegal's "lack of ambition" the other day. They were undoubtedly knackered after a intense 70 plus minutes on a heavy pitch. They wouldn't have known exactly how much injury time there was left to play. So anyone attempting a score that dropped short could have been crucified if Dublin were able to work possession up the pitch for a winner of their own.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 28/02/2017 14:10:45    1962101

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "Game involving Kerry, Mayo , Dublin are generally a lot more open than when any of them play an Ulster side as they know they have to protect against counter attacks and easy scores when they play them

Look at Kerry in 2014, played 5 games up until the final which were all high-scoring, exciting and competitive (bar Cork game) and then the final which was an Ugly Duckling of a game. I understand it's the prerogative of managers to do what they think will win a game but it is certainly attractive for spectators and not how the game was intended to be played when it was devised

With all the hand wringing about Congress and formats blah blah it'd be more in line to actually fix the ills of the game otherwise the dwindiling attendances will only continue"
You've proved absolutely and precisely nothing there I'm afraid.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 28/02/2017 14:12:54    1962103

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Replying To Breffni39:  "You've proved absolutely and precisely nothing there I'm afraid."
there are none so blind as those who will not see

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 28/02/2017 15:46:00    1962155

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "there are none so blind as those who will not see"
Actually that cliché has convinced me now.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 28/02/2017 16:50:12    1962200

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "Game involving Kerry, Mayo , Dublin are generally a lot more open than when any of them play an Ulster side as they know they have to protect against counter attacks and easy scores when they play them

Look at Kerry in 2014, played 5 games up until the final which were all high-scoring, exciting and competitive (bar Cork game) and then the final which was an Ugly Duckling of a game. I understand it's the prerogative of managers to do what they think will win a game but it is certainly attractive for spectators and not how the game was intended to be played when it was devised

With all the hand wringing about Congress and formats blah blah it'd be more in line to actually fix the ills of the game otherwise the dwindiling attendances will only continue"
And what Ulster team is to blame for the lower scoring 2015 All Ireland final where no Ulster team was involved?

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/02/2017 17:06:44    1962213

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