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Gender Quotas to be applied to Sports Bodies

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Replying To football first: "Greengrass, I'd say that central councils of both the camogie association and the LGFA already have way more that 30% of their posts held by men. From this link to the LGFA management committee, you'll see that 9 of the 16 positions are held by men (56%): Thanks" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://ladiesgaelic.ie/contact-us/management/" Thanks for that football first . I think that when you have that level of male involvement in the ladies associations it clearly demonstrates how ridiculous the proposals in relation to quotas actually are . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 13:11:21 1939882 Link
I think this is madness - pc going wrong.... the best person for the job - regardless of gender.... if you are a female and get the role/job you deserve it.... some of the best administrators were and are female but in Armagh like in other counties we have few ladies involved - that is a reality - by just placing them on a board because they are female is ridiculous .... that is like saying we need 50% Catholic/muslim etc on a committee or we should have 30% from ethnic community etc I have and been involved in both camoige and ladies football and it is shocking how few women are involved at any level in Armagh/Down etc in 2 female dominated sports.... lets face it in coaching, administration, refereeing etc there are very few women at the grass roots in their sport...... cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 13/12/2016 13:20:21 1939885 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "So should we have 30% male member participation on the boards of directors of the Camogie and Ladie Football associations ?" Classic whataboutery. I bet you say "not all men" a lot as well Until such a time that men are under represented in these bodies it is farcical to dismiss this idea just because it's primarily aimed at women. As I have said, I don't really like quotas and I don't think it will work on it's own, but at least it's an acknowledgement of a problem and hopefully will be part of a wider strategy JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 13/12/2016 14:03:56 1939896 Link
Replying To football first: "Greengrass, I'd say that central councils of both the camogie association and the LGFA already have way more that 30% of their posts held by men. From this link to the LGFA management committee, you'll see that 9 of the 16 positions are held by men (56%): Thanks" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://ladiesgaelic.ie/contact-us/management/" Thanks for that football first . I think that when you have that level of male involvement in the ladies associations it clearly demonstrates how ridiculous the proposals in relation to quotas actually are . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 14:44:02 1939904 Link
Replying To JoeSoap: "Classic whataboutery. I bet you say "not all men" a lot as well Until such a time that men are under represented in these bodies it is farcical to dismiss this idea just because it's primarily aimed at women. As I have said, I don't really like quotas and I don't think it will work on it's own, but at least it's an acknowledgement of a problem and hopefully will be part of a wider strategy" Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 14:58:14 1939907 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided ." Excellent point Green grass in relation to the gender inequality in teaching. You could add nursing to that! Some sense at least being spoken on the subject by the Tyrone chairperson who is a woman. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 13/12/2016 15:10:45 1939909 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided ." Thats because inequality is ridiculously one sided. bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 13/12/2016 15:17:52 1939912 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided ." Well it is whataboutery because you're presenting a separate issue as if that is some validation for the current lack of female representation in the administration of our sports bodies. Gender imbalance in our schools is an issue that's been raised by INTO on numerous occasions, never mind the issues around pay and job security. We have a huge amount of qualified teachers in Ireland and more and more are leaving because the jobs aren't here. What that has to do with the topic at hand? Absolutely nothing. But I'm sure it feeds into your own little narrative surrounding sexism and inequality. Inequality is one sided... that's kind of the whole point. I haven't seen enough research regarding barriers to men when it comes to primary teaching - is there evidence of being ignored for the job ahead of a female teacher? Even anecdotally, is it ever presented as "I didn't get the job because I'm a man"? I'm genuinely curious - I don't know enough about that. I also find it funny when people rail so hard against feminism when it is a good thing for men as well. If a man wants to be a nurse, should he be judged as somehow less masculine for that? Of course not. But that stigma is there, and it wasn't feminism that put it there. In an ideal world, quotas wouldn't be necessary, people would be judged on their ability and their merits, how they fit in with an organisation and team and go from there. However, it is not an ideal world and the deck is stacked against women and minorities. I repeat: I do not like quotas as they are in essence undemocratic. But I refuse to believe that true democracy results in a single female representative on the boards of the GAA, IRFU and FAI. Something doesn't quite add up there, wouldn't you say? JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 13/12/2016 15:57:04 1939924 Link
Replying To JoeSoap: "Classic whataboutery. I bet you say "not all men" a lot as well Until such a time that men are under represented in these bodies it is farcical to dismiss this idea just because it's primarily aimed at women. As I have said, I don't really like quotas and I don't think it will work on it's own, but at least it's an acknowledgement of a problem and hopefully will be part of a wider strategy" Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 16:00:31 1939925 Link
Replying To bad.monkey: "Thats because inequality is ridiculously one sided." Very simplistic bad.monkey. You need to get your thinking hat on . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 16:03:00 1939927 Link
Replying To JoeSoap: "Well it is whataboutery because you're presenting a separate issue as if that is some validation for the current lack of female representation in the administration of our sports bodies. Gender imbalance in our schools is an issue that's been raised by INTO on numerous occasions, never mind the issues around pay and job security. We have a huge amount of qualified teachers in Ireland and more and more are leaving because the jobs aren't here. What that has to do with the topic at hand? Absolutely nothing. But I'm sure it feeds into your own little narrative surrounding sexism and inequality. Inequality is one sided... that's kind of the whole point. I haven't seen enough research regarding barriers to men when it comes to primary teaching - is there evidence of being ignored for the job ahead of a female teacher? Even anecdotally, is it ever presented as "I didn't get the job because I'm a man"? I'm genuinely curious - I don't know enough about that. I also find it funny when people rail so hard against feminism when it is a good thing for men as well. If a man wants to be a nurse, should he be judged as somehow less masculine for that? Of course not. But that stigma is there, and it wasn't feminism that put it there. In an ideal world, quotas wouldn't be necessary, people would be judged on their ability and their merits, how they fit in with an organisation and team and go from there. However, it is not an ideal world and the deck is stacked against women and minorities. I repeat: I do not like quotas as they are in essence undemocratic. But I refuse to believe that true democracy results in a single female representative on the boards of the GAA, IRFU and FAI. Something doesn't quite add up there, wouldn't you say?" If ten people apply for a job and only one is a woman, the chances are that the person who gets the job will be the best qualified and it will be a man. Sure whats wrong with that? Often times it can be very difficult to pinpoint in a career where discrimination starts however what gender quotas do is ensure that organisations have to ensure that throughout the organization, at every level its eliminated and they constantly get coming through the people based on ability. It is clear to a lot of people is that without the stick element, some people/organisations will never change. If you have 10 teachers applying for a job, 9 are women and one man - I think you will find there is a very high % that the man will get the job. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 13/12/2016 16:49:30 1939941 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Absolutely nothing to do with whataboutery. The equality "debate" is one sided and does not address equality in it's totality . It is currently a process which identifies where women are allegedly less equal than men and seeks to rectify that . This proposition is another manifestation of that particular mindset. There is no evidence to say that the administration of our sports organisations will improve as a result of this initiative . 80% of all primary teachers are female yet there is no talk of introducing quotas for male teachers . Why? The debate on equality is ridiculously one sided ." Admin can close the debate after this comment. couldn't have summed it up better myself. Where do you draw the line? Do we need analysis done on how many LGBT, African, Asian, etc. people should be on every board. It's time we put back a decent party into Government! tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 13/12/2016 16:50:31 1939944 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Excellent point Green grass in relation to the gender inequality in teaching. You could add nursing to that! Some sense at least being spoken on the subject by the Tyrone chairperson who is a woman." What did she say poolsturgeon? Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 16:56:06 1939949 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "What did she say poolsturgeon?" Maybe someone will put up the link. She says the proposal is "not currently practical." Says "how can you vote people into positions when they haven't got the experience?.........if people present themselves to be elected you can't just pick them up and throw them in just to bring it up to 30%" PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 13/12/2016 17:39:42 1939955 Link
I think the whole idea is daft. You pick the best candidate for the post, regardless of gender. It makes you wonder are there more important issues in the country at present. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1745 - 13/12/2016 18:17:17 1939960 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Maybe someone will put up the link. She says the proposal is "not currently practical." Says "how can you vote people into positions when they haven't got the experience?.........if people present themselves to be elected you can't just pick them up and throw them in just to bring it up to 30%"" Thanks poolsturgeon. Roisin Jordan has made a very important point very well . According to The Irish Times 13 of the 16 people on the board of The Camogie Association are women which means 81.25% of the board are female . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/12/2016 18:35:41 1939964 Link
Quotas are unfortunately necessary to un-do centuries of discrimination that women endured. It is about moving towards re-balance and with this push a natural balance will happen in future. Boards are supposed to be representative bodies , yet the GAA, FAI, IRFU..etc have zero representation at board level for the thousands of females involved in the organisations. Im not sure if the posts and whataboutery about individual professions where there are more men or women is actually serious! bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 13/12/2016 19:54:40 1939977 Link
Amalgamate hurling and camogie, gaelic with ladies All sorted Bout time this happened, and separate boards for each sport. . hurling and football is akin to soccer and cricket tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 13/12/2016 21:10:21 1939985 Link
If you believe there is only one truth in the world anything that challenges that truth will always be dismissed as whataboutery PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 13/12/2016 21:42:39 1939990 Link
According to The Irish Times 13 of the 16 people on the board of The Camogie Association are women which means 81.25% of the board are female . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts:4478 - 13/12/2016 18:35:41 1939964 Just shows how far ahead of the GAA the Camogie Association is in terms of gender balance. 80/20 split whereas the GAA has 0% women at that level. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 13/12/2016 21:46:19 1939992 Link