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12 stadia to make up Ireland's 2023 RWC Bid

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Lads, this was always a pipe dream. Generally speaking, (other than Croke Park) facilities in GAA stadia leave a lot to be desired in terms of toilets, accessibility, infrastructure, even seating. Add in to the mix the poor infrastructure in Ireland generally, and us being a tiny country compared with the other two bids, and there's no way in hell we were ever going to get the nod for the RWC. We just wouldn't make World Rugby enough money, and that's all chief executives at the top end of any sport care about.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 16/11/2017 13:58:02    2062666

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Replying To heartbroken:  "
Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Ah it was never really on once the French entered the fray. Putting Castlebar, Pearse stadium, Celtic park and Fitzgerald stadium in the bus was a mistake. The whole bid ought to have centred around Dublin, Belfast, Limerick and Cork. 2 stadiums in Belfast , 2 in Limerick, 1 in Cork and 3 in Dublin. These cities are where the game is played. Maybe Pearse stadium in Galway could have been up graded but its a poor small stadium on a beach. The whole bid was a touch preposterous
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts:728 - 16/11/2017 12:32:00 Was it?
The world cup was never going to he held with multiple stadiums in just 4 cities.
It would be far too much strain on those cities. You need to have use of stadiums in other areas/towns
The game is played across far more than just the cities.
The bid wasnt preposterous."
Cop on lads this is a GAA forum not a rugby fourm."
You'll notice this is the "other sports" page of the forum. If you don't like it, you know where the virtual door is.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/11/2017 14:11:52    2062669

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*EDIT* Other sports thread, but not on other sports page. So it could be moved..............if anyone really cares.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/11/2017 14:19:45    2062670

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Who are these wealthy private hands that money would be transferred into?
You sure we would never have got any economic boost from this?
What issues that need to be addressed that wouldnt if we hosted a rugby world cup?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13143 - 16/11/2017 12:17:01

It's simple enough Ormond. These tournaments make money for the Organisers (the World Cup Rugby Board or whatever) and then those that get awarded the contracts etc but never for the exchequer of the hosts despite the claims that you see out there.

There will be increased economic activity for the duration but nowhere as much as is always claimed and then it usually gets evened out over time in anyways.

For example we'd have probably see a boost in tourist numbers during the tournament, again not half as much as was claimed, as a lot of tourists would not come precisely there is a sports tournament on. Driven away by lack of interest as well as high prices, but that boost would have evened out too because the majority of the tourists would be tourists that would have come to Ireland in anyways either in the years prior or post the tournament. This is doubly true of the Rugby tournament because the teams that would have large travelling support play here all the time anyway as there's only so many of them.

Numbers that politicians pick out are always completely vague and lacking in any substance to them in the these cases. We were never going to suddenly have a load of money to spend on vital services after hosting the tournament. It's completely ludicrous when you think about it!

I think you can figure out the myriad of things that this country needs to address before we start thinking about hosting some sports tournaments. Take a stroll around the place man!

The tournament would have been good fun and would've given the country a happiness boost, just not a financial one, but ultimately it would have been costly party! Also when has any project in Ireland ever not gone over budget!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 16/11/2017 14:22:29    2062675

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When you think about it, the whole bid was almost as farcical as the FAI's attempt to co-host Euro 2008 with Scotland.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/11/2017 14:43:00    2062685

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It's simple enough Ormond. These tournaments make money for the Organisers (the World Cup Rugby Board or whatever) and then those that get awarded the contracts etc but never for the exchequer of the hosts despite the claims that you see out there.
There will be increased economic activity for the duration but nowhere as much as is always claimed and then it usually gets evened out over time in anyways.
For example we'd have probably see a boost in tourist numbers during the tournament, again not half as much as was claimed, as a lot of tourists would not come precisely there is a sports tournament on. Driven away by lack of interest as well as high prices, but that boost would have evened out too because the majority of the tourists would be tourists that would have come to Ireland in anyways either in the years prior or post the tournament. This is doubly true of the Rugby tournament because the teams that would have large travelling support play here all the time anyway as there's only so many of them.
Numbers that politicians pick out are always completely vague and lacking in any substance to them in the these cases. We were never going to suddenly have a load of money to spend on vital services after hosting the tournament. It's completely ludicrous when you think about it!
I think you can figure out the myriad of things that this country needs to address before we start thinking about hosting some sports tournaments. Take a stroll around the place man!
The tournament would have been good fun and would've given the country a happiness boost, just not a financial one, but ultimately it would have been costly party! Also when has any project in Ireland ever not gone over budget!
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:11363 - 16/11/2017 14:22:29 It isnt that simple at all and the money invested to prepare for a tournament like a world cup is made back indirectly and can have significant follow on income for a country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_the_FIFA_World_Cup
Again you are saying oh we cant host this as we need to be spending money on x and y but havent said what this x and y is. It isnt as simple as saying we cant host a world cup as we need to work on a myriad of things before we do.
With that basic elementary type of thinking then no country would ever host a world cup/major sporting event.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/11/2017 14:47:53    2062687

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Ireland would not have won this bid even if all available stadiums were state-of-the-art. Bids will be awarded to countries where:

1. Big populations; and / or
2. Rugby is starting out and needs a big boost.

Rugby is a mature sport in Ireland and is already well-enough supported. Rules out 2. Will never have a big population. Rules out 1. Can't see Ireland ever getting a rugby world cup.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 16/11/2017 15:19:01    2062693

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Ireland would not have won this bid even if all available stadiums were state-of-the-art. Bids will be awarded to countries where:
1. Big populations; and / or
2. Rugby is starting out and needs a big boost.
Rugby is a mature sport in Ireland and is already well-enough supported. Rules out 2. Will never have a big population. Rules out 1. Can't see Ireland ever getting a rugby world cup.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts:357 - 16/11/2017 15:19:01That isnt the case. Rugby cant just disregard so many countries. No sport can really.
Main thing that may stop ireland getting to host a rugby world cup is if the competition expands to 24 teams which it may in 8-12 years as depth of teams increases

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01    2062695

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Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01    2062696

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Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:1023 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01What venues should have been picked that were not?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/11/2017 15:44:06    2062703

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Sorry lads there is no way Ireland could ever host an event like this. As much as I would like to see it on this Island it will just never happen. Public transport is shocking outside of Dublin. A few years ago I was heading to Galway, decided I would take a train from Sligo to Galway. Turns out the only way I was going to be able to do it would be to go from sligo to dublin and then from Dublin to Galway. The worst bit is the transport infrastructure in the south is 100 times better than it is in the North. You can't get a bus after 7 and you may forget about trying to get a train at any time if it's not going to Coleraine, Ballymena or Dublin.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 16/11/2017 16:23:03    2062716

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:1023 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01What venues should have been picked that were not?"
Newry, Armagh, omagh, cavan, sligo, roscommon, thurles, tullamore and portloise possibly more.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 16/11/2017 16:28:15    2062720

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Replying To ROS1:  "
Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:1023 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01What venues should have been picked that were not?"
Newry, Armagh, omagh, cavan, sligo, roscommon, thurles, tullamore and portloise possibly more."
Newry, Armagh and Cavan yes. Omagh I would have above Celtic park but not sure if it would be a big enough venue or town. Sligo as a town is more than capable of holding it but the ground would need serious work. Would roscommon be big enough? I assumed that thurles and portlaois were already on the bid.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 16/11/2017 16:54:56    2062725

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Replying To gotmilk:  "Sorry lads there is no way Ireland could ever host an event like this. As much as I would like to see it on this Island it will just never happen. Public transport is shocking outside of Dublin. A few years ago I was heading to Galway, decided I would take a train from Sligo to Galway. Turns out the only way I was going to be able to do it would be to go from sligo to dublin and then from Dublin to Galway. The worst bit is the transport infrastructure in the south is 100 times better than it is in the North. You can't get a bus after 7 and you may forget about trying to get a train at any time if it's not going to Coleraine, Ballymena or Dublin."
Ha! I remember in the pre-internet days thinking naively that I could just handily jump on a train in Amiens St and head for Derry via Belfast with ease!

That was an entire day I'll never get back although the train journey from Belfast to Derry was nice if a little slow!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 16/11/2017 18:07:56    2062736

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Replying To gotmilk:  "
Replying To ROS1:  "[quote=ormondbannerman:  "Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:1023 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01What venues should have been picked that were not?"
Newry, Armagh, omagh, cavan, sligo, roscommon, thurles, tullamore and portloise possibly more."
Newry, Armagh and Cavan yes. Omagh I would have above Celtic park but not sure if it would be a big enough venue or town. Sligo as a town is more than capable of holding it but the ground would need serious work. Would roscommon be big enough? I assumed that thurles and portlaois were already on the bid."]This is the type of fantasy thinking that killed the bid. We Irish have a good detachment from reality when it suits us. Blame the famine again or 1000 years of so called subjugation (myth)from the only tier 1 country that voted for us.'
Roscommon, Sligo..Portlaoise are ye for real. How about Portarlington and longford town, maybe termonfeckin and tuam stadium..Thurles was ruled out because it has no hotels. This wasn't the fleadh ceoil. What rugby players ever came out of those towns or the likes of Tyrone. Anyway it's done.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 16/11/2017 18:09:53    2062737

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Bloodyban, I was with you in terms of the logistical points you made, then you had to go and spoil it again with another thinly veiled, attention seeking point. You are a true historical revisionist. Self loathing isn't healthy man.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/11/2017 18:40:04    2062742

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Well, when Qatar can get a world cup you can see how these things get allocated. Facilities and infrastructure and any other so called necessity have nothing to do with it , it's who paying the most for votes.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 16/11/2017 19:15:55    2062746

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Replying To ROS1:  "
Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Pretty clear the Irish bid team were pretty navive while the were making so called emotional support videos. France were doing the deals to get the votes. The fact that ireland couldn't get one vote out of the pro 12 countries tells it own story. One of the main things the media kept banging on about the bid was how the whole country would buy into it. Well looking at the venues the choose the way from donegal/tryone down to waterford was excluded from the bid which makes alot of people not to disappointed with the result only the disappointed with the waste of time and money it took.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:1023 - 16/11/2017 15:24:01What venues should have been picked that were not?"
Newry, Armagh, omagh, cavan, sligo, roscommon, thurles, tullamore and portloise possibly more."
Most of those towns are not big enough. Thurles has nowhere near enough beds in the town for a world cup game with 50000 visitors nearly all who would need a bed even taking into account a lot staying elsewhere. That isn't good enough for a tournament when most people will not have cars here to travel at a game. Thurles works for gaa games where 95% of people at games travel to and from thurles on the day of a game.
Tullamore not big enough stadium and not enough accommodation
None f these venues would be better than what were included in the bid

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/11/2017 20:31:24    2062758

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Issues like public transport and hotel beds never entered the heads of those voting yesterday. Scotland made it very clear what most were thinking, they were going to vote for whoever promised the most money and that was France. Professional sport is all about money, and especially in rugby where many countries like Scotland are really struggling financially. I was surprised the IRFU didn't do more to try and fill Thomond Park last week for the Tonga v Barbarians game to try and get a positive message out that Ireland could sell lots of world cup tickets, instead the ground had a few hundred in it which wasn't a great advertisement at all.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 16/11/2017 22:20:41    2062785

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Replying To Soma:  "Issues like public transport and hotel beds never entered the heads of those voting yesterday. Scotland made it very clear what most were thinking, they were going to vote for whoever promised the most money and that was France. Professional sport is all about money, and especially in rugby where many countries like Scotland are really struggling financially. I was surprised the IRFU didn't do more to try and fill Thomond Park last week for the Tonga v Barbarians game to try and get a positive message out that Ireland could sell lots of world cup tickets, instead the ground had a few hundred in it which wasn't a great advertisement at all."
Scotland are struggling with attendances as well, Soma. In fact they're the only one of the "Lions" nations who can't even sell out their own stadium consistently for an All Blacks visit. I think the IRB chose well. We couldn't offer them more than a couple of stadia to be honest, the rest were wishful thinking. South Africa is a crime ridden country and that would put off a huge amount of visitors. France on the other hand, is a wonderful country with multiple decent venues in great locations. Also, selfishly for me, only a couple of hours from Ebbsfleet International. I wouldn't even need to travel into London to get there. Happy days!

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/11/2017 22:54:04    2062790

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