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I know he was only at the helm for 4 years - relatively short when compared to Harte, Boylan, O'Dwyer, Cody etc., but Jim McGuinness will go down as one of the GAA's greatest ever managers for what he did for that Donegal team. Without him, I can't see them challenging for Sam in the next 5 years.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 12/10/2016 13:58:53
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Replying To Laois76: "True. And surely play Murphy upfront for most of the game. Whether he was carrying an injury or not i don't know but his contribution has slipped in the last year or so." I don't think it's that Murphy isn't doing the upfront play or at least that he's not trying to.
I think they ask wayyyyy to much of him, they want him to play midfield and corner forward all at one time, in the absence of Neil Gallagher who's their best ball winner outside of Murphy they had to have Murphy police the middle. All you need to look at to prove this is his "tackle" on Fenton, the man is gassed, he's flailing an arm and he's doing it at the other side of mid field.
I think they need another great forward to return to the AI level but to become the best team in Ulster again they merely need to find a good ball winner for mid field, it's bad the 2 players they have in there apparently aren't doing an effective enough job
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 12/10/2016 14:16:32
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Replying To Seansy48: "I don't think it's that Murphy isn't doing the upfront play or at least that he's not trying to.
I think they ask wayyyyy to much of him, they want him to play midfield and corner forward all at one time, in the absence of Neil Gallagher who's their best ball winner outside of Murphy they had to have Murphy police the middle. All you need to look at to prove this is his "tackle" on Fenton, the man is gassed, he's flailing an arm and he's doing it at the other side of mid field.
I think they need another great forward to return to the AI level but to become the best team in Ulster again they merely need to find a good ball winner for mid field, it's bad the 2 players they have in there apparently aren't doing an effective enough job" As a Tyrone man you should know that balls are rarely 'won' at midfield anymore. Short kickouts dominate.
Murphy is played there because he is one of our best decision makers on the ball and probably our best distributor of ball into the forwards. If we could have Murphy playing the ball into Murphy that would obviously be ideal!
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 12/10/2016 14:42:53
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Replying To benjyyy: "As a Tyrone man you should know that balls are rarely 'won' at midfield anymore. Short kickouts dominate.
Murphy is played there because he is one of our best decision makers on the ball and probably our best distributor of ball into the forwards. If we could have Murphy playing the ball into Murphy that would obviously be ideal!" Maybe for Donegal or Tyrone or anyone who plays a short kick out game but we're about to have a Footballer of the year in Fenton who's earned the award by being an absolutely amazing traditional fielder of the ball among other things.
That second final he was rising above the Mayo lads and picking the ball out of the sky with relative ease at times.
I don't think the trade off with Murphy is worth it, Mac Niallais is there and he seems to have pretty good vision and ability to link play.
The experiment hasn't worked, your team are worse off for not having Murphy play up front. The most impressive aspect of his play this year was kicking dead balls and for a man they used to refer to as "The Man Child" that's an awful shame
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 12/10/2016 15:16:48
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Replying To Seansy48: "Maybe for Donegal or Tyrone or anyone who plays a short kick out game but we're about to have a Footballer of the year in Fenton who's earned the award by being an absolutely amazing traditional fielder of the ball among other things.
That second final he was rising above the Mayo lads and picking the ball out of the sky with relative ease at times.
I don't think the trade off with Murphy is worth it, Mac Niallais is there and he seems to have pretty good vision and ability to link play.
The experiment hasn't worked, your team are worse off for not having Murphy play up front. The most impressive aspect of his play this year was kicking dead balls and for a man they used to refer to as "The Man Child" that's an awful shame" I don't know how you can call it an experiment. Jim McGuinness used Murphy in exactly the same way. In fact, he was probably in midfield even more often under Jim's reign. And thats when Neil Gallagher was there too which he wasn't this season.
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 12/10/2016 15:41:24
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I think that we are very like the armagh team of the last decade.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 12/10/2016 17:30:46
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I think most of the commentary here is spot on.
Donegal's hand passing strategy in attack looks great when it comes off, and it's classy against Division 2 teams, or teams which aren't quite as tuned in as they can be (Monaghan this year), but against serious teams like Tyrone and Dublin whose defensive screens are extremely focused, we just end up recycling the ball to the point where we get turned over.
I haven't much faith in Gallagher like many fellow Donegal people here. And like them, I think the shame is that we absolutely have the talent. That's very hard to bear. So I really hope the county board got some serious reassurances from Rory as to what he was going to different next year... But I'm sceptical on that front too. We are starting to become accustomed to losing big games narrowly. That cycle has to be broken. Under McGuinness there was always a maverick move, a level of unpredictability in tactics, personnel and strategy. Now, we are probably the most predictable of all the top 7/8 teams along with Monaghan. So, we are reaching a fork in the road here. Either something new will come into the equation this year or we will continually regress at a slow rate. We have left two Ulster titles behind us now, no disrespect at all to the victors, and in Croke Park we have looked so unprepared. Losing in an ulster final and the merciless fixture schedule which accompanies it hardly helps in that respect though.
Really hoping for something different, bold, call it what you like.. next year. People looked at McGuinness' era from the outside as being negative and cautious, but that missed the point. No team wins an All Ireland be being solely negative; we were capable and unpredictable in attack with forwards and half backs alike contributing. Midfielders kicking a score at vital moments.
We have too many good players to be dying a death over the next few years. Get on with it Rory!
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 12/10/2016 18:04:26
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Replying To Lockjaw: "In my opinion Michael Hegarty is one of the most graceful and naturally talented footballers we've ever produced. He was unlucky he was part of what I would call the 'unfulfilled potential' generation. (Devenney, Adrian Sweeney, Damien Diver, Brian Roper etc) The talent was there but it was never fully harnessed correctly and discipline left a lot to be desired.
Still, he won his Ulster medal in 2011 but bowed out after that, A lot of fine footballers like the above mentioned didn't win any provincial silverware." Great talent there alright and around 2002 and 2003 against the Dubs (replay) and Armagh they were very close.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 12/10/2016 19:19:28
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Replying To Seansy48: "I don't think it's that Murphy isn't doing the upfront play or at least that he's not trying to.
I think they ask wayyyyy to much of him, they want him to play midfield and corner forward all at one time, in the absence of Neil Gallagher who's their best ball winner outside of Murphy they had to have Murphy police the middle. All you need to look at to prove this is his "tackle" on Fenton, the man is gassed, he's flailing an arm and he's doing it at the other side of mid field.
I think they need another great forward to return to the AI level but to become the best team in Ulster again they merely need to find a good ball winner for mid field, it's bad the 2 players they have in there apparently aren't doing an effective enough job" True. At 26 he's starting to look worn out. I think he shouldn't play sigerson this year and probably needs league time out too.
Often the case with those who debut at 17 and 18 years old the backend of their career suffers. The likes of Beano McDonald in Laois was a senior at 17 and with injury etc wore out. Brian Corcoran, Cork's dual star, retired at 27 and made a successful comeback at 31.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 12/10/2016 19:24:32
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Lots and lots of debates on the busy Donegal forum about this .
I myself created a thread titled ' how we play football' . It was in response to the talented players we have that are negated from playing a more attack minded team .
I think our manager is simply not at at races and is just too bloody negative .
Donegal have done good at minor of late with 2 Ulsters in 3 years . There is a brilliant group of young players in the county however they don't get used much .
Don't get me wrong , other counties are just as negative however we have the players up front to cause damage but Rory won't change .
I told my fellow county men in 2015 nobody listened .
Here's one for you people outside the county :
Rory was with Kilcar for a couple of years and they failed miserably .
Martin McHugh takes them over this year and they stroll to the county final for the first time in 23 years . A tiny parish and under McHugh play nice football .
Whatever is thought of McHugh as a pundit - the guy is a superb coach / manager .
Although I admire Glenswilly as they are a dot on the map , I hope they don't win as they play 14 begind the ball . I hope football wins out .
Bottom line for me : Rory is not the man to win the big honours with Donegal .
With a good manager - we wouldn't be far away .
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/10/2016 15:15:00
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "I think most of the commentary here is spot on.
Donegal's hand passing strategy in attack looks great when it comes off, and it's classy against Division 2 teams, or teams which aren't quite as tuned in as they can be (Monaghan this year), but against serious teams like Tyrone and Dublin whose defensive screens are extremely focused, we just end up recycling the ball to the point where we get turned over.
I haven't much faith in Gallagher like many fellow Donegal people here. And like them, I think the shame is that we absolutely have the talent. That's very hard to bear. So I really hope the county board got some serious reassurances from Rory as to what he was going to different next year... But I'm sceptical on that front too. We are starting to become accustomed to losing big games narrowly. That cycle has to be broken. Under McGuinness there was always a maverick move, a level of unpredictability in tactics, personnel and strategy. Now, we are probably the most predictable of all the top 7/8 teams along with Monaghan. So, we are reaching a fork in the road here. Either something new will come into the equation this year or we will continually regress at a slow rate. We have left two Ulster titles behind us now, no disrespect at all to the victors, and in Croke Park we have looked so unprepared. Losing in an ulster final and the merciless fixture schedule which accompanies it hardly helps in that respect though.
Really hoping for something different, bold, call it what you like.. next year. People looked at McGuinness' era from the outside as being negative and cautious, but that missed the point. No team wins an All Ireland be being solely negative; we were capable and unpredictable in attack with forwards and half backs alike contributing. Midfielders kicking a score at vital moments.
We have too many good players to be dying a death over the next few years. Get on with it Rory!" Excellent post .
Nobody would be annoyed if we didn't have the players - we do .
Imagine Michael Murphy , Paddy McBrearty , Stephen McBrearty , Odhran Mac and Eoin McHugh in an attacking system .
All classy stylish footballers who will spend m
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/10/2016 15:17:43
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "I think most of the commentary here is spot on.
Donegal's hand passing strategy in attack looks great when it comes off, and it's classy against Division 2 teams, or teams which aren't quite as tuned in as they can be (Monaghan this year), but against serious teams like Tyrone and Dublin whose defensive screens are extremely focused, we just end up recycling the ball to the point where we get turned over.
I haven't much faith in Gallagher like many fellow Donegal people here. And like them, I think the shame is that we absolutely have the talent. That's very hard to bear. So I really hope the county board got some serious reassurances from Rory as to what he was going to different next year... But I'm sceptical on that front too. We are starting to become accustomed to losing big games narrowly. That cycle has to be broken. Under McGuinness there was always a maverick move, a level of unpredictability in tactics, personnel and strategy. Now, we are probably the most predictable of all the top 7/8 teams along with Monaghan. So, we are reaching a fork in the road here. Either something new will come into the equation this year or we will continually regress at a slow rate. We have left two Ulster titles behind us now, no disrespect at all to the victors, and in Croke Park we have looked so unprepared. Losing in an ulster final and the merciless fixture schedule which accompanies it hardly helps in that respect though.
Really hoping for something different, bold, call it what you like.. next year. People looked at McGuinness' era from the outside as being negative and cautious, but that missed the point. No team wins an All Ireland be being solely negative; we were capable and unpredictable in attack with forwards and half backs alike contributing. Midfielders kicking a score at vital moments.
We have too many good players to be dying a death over the next few years. Get on with it Rory!" Excellent post .
Nobody would be annoyed if we didn't have the players - we do .
Imagine Michael Murphy , Paddy McBrearty , Stephen McBrearty , Odhran Mac and Eoin McHugh in an attacking system .
All classy stylish footballers who will spend most of their time 50-60 yards from goal .
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/10/2016 15:18:18
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Replying To benjyyy: "As a Tyrone man you should know that balls are rarely 'won' at midfield anymore. Short kickouts dominate.
Murphy is played there because he is one of our best decision makers on the ball and probably our best distributor of ball into the forwards. If we could have Murphy playing the ball into Murphy that would obviously be ideal!" Have to agree with that. In the second half against Fermanagh he hit some great passes. There was one with the outside of the foot that cut Fermanagh wide open.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/10/2016 16:31:30
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Replying To TheRightStuff: "Excellent post .
Nobody would be annoyed if we didn't have the players - we do .
Imagine Michael Murphy , Paddy McBrearty , Stephen McBrearty , Odhran Mac and Eoin McHugh in an attacking system .
All classy stylish footballers who will spend most of their time 50-60 yards from goal ." How do you suggest getting the ball to them?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/10/2016 16:34:14
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Donegal will be around the top table to stay now and they will never go back to the pre McGuiness era again.
Some excellent underage teams coming through and still the team to avoid in tonight's draw.
County final this week will be a cracker
ulster83 (Tyrone) - Posts: 114 - 13/10/2016 16:44:31
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Replying To TheRightStuff: "Excellent post .
Nobody would be annoyed if we didn't have the players - we do .
Imagine Michael Murphy , Paddy McBrearty , Stephen McBrearty , Odhran Mac and Eoin McHugh in an attacking system .
All classy stylish footballers who will spend most of their time 50-60 yards from goal ." Yes, the distrust in these stylish, classy players is now becoming outdated and infuriating. If we have learned anything this year it's that we need to let rip at other teams with variation, intensity and courage. Not this fearful possession obsessed strategy. Funnily enough, some of that would work perfectly inside a tweaked system; why not utilise it when we are 5/6 points up? Trying to 'manage' games through constant possession (which lacks incision against top teams) when just a few points up is negative and ultimately futile.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 13/10/2016 17:34:50
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Replying To gotmilk: "How do you suggest getting the ball to them?" I'd imagine out of that group listed Stephen McBrearty will assume the playmaker role in good time.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 14/10/2016 08:11:17
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Replying to the original post as to whether Donegal have gone backwards, it is really hard to know. They certainly have gone backwards since 2014 when JMcG was in charge. In the main, the Donegal supporters were shocked that RG got a 3-year extension with an option of a 4th.
I feel we didn't really improve much this year from 2015, we had the same game plan, very defensive with everyone behind the ball except Paddy McBrearty, try to turnover the opposition and counter at pace. The game plan was too one dimensional with no kick passing. We were found out against the good sides who just keep their half back line in situ and we had no space to run into. Even when we did play well and got ahead, we just sat back and tried to defend the lead instead of going on and winning the games. If Donegal are to improve in 2017 then RG needs to vary his tactics and not be so conservative.
Although we have some aging players there are a lot of good underage players who haven't been given a proper chance. Stephen McBrearty is one of the best underage players in the country but hasn't got any game time. RG needs to inject some younger legs in the team and stick with them.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 14/10/2016 11:27:30
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Good draw for 2017 For Donegal.
Will be very fresh for a semi Final against Tyrone.
In the past Donegal Would have to win 6 games just to reach an All Ireland Final, but for 2017 with no disrespect to Antrim, 4 games would take them there. If they did lose to Tyrone they still have plenty time to recover in the qualifiers.
This makes them a dangerous proposition for anyone in 2017 if they play like Kilcar have been playing in their club championship playing attacking football and running up massive scores.
ulster83 (Tyrone) - Posts: 114 - 14/10/2016 11:38:16
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I'd imagine out of that group listed Stephen McBrearty will assume the playmaker role in good time." Do you think Odhran would be better suited as a centre half forward? I'm not sure about his defensive discipline for midfield but he's a fine footballer.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 14/10/2016 11:48:41
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