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Replying To essmac: "The feeling would be that Tyrone have not improved since 2015. While they lost against Kerry, the performance was good. While they could have got a draw at least against Mayo, especially if Cavanagh had been on, the performance was not great. Tyrone are not suited to a cautious game and thrive when they have a go. Brennan should be on, what more does he have to do at senior club level. The outrageous point he got last weekend's v Eglish from the left corner flag could not have been scored by any other man on that pitch." He's 21-22? I'm very sure his time will come. Sooner rather than latter il say. I'm a huge fan of Lee. Hope he gets a good crack during the league to see if he can stand up to the physical demands of county football.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 08/09/2016 19:55:26
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Replying To SaffronDon: "ah right. so it was pure luck that Ulster teams won four on the trot back in the 90's?" If I'm correct that was the first time within the history of the GAA that senior football AI'S were won in the same province by a different team for 4 years running.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 08/09/2016 20:03:15
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Replying To Thomas Clarke: "A few thoughts:
- As anyone who remembers the time when Alex Ferguson announced his first (and ultimately aborted) retirement mid-season will tell you, a lame duck manager does no-one any good. United's form faltered considerably, as players felt less need to impress a man who they thought would soon be gone, and he ended up having to change his mind and stay on for several more years. Similarly, in early 2015 with Tyrone stuttering and everyone assuming that Mickey would be gone at the end of that season, there was an exodus of players from the Tyrone panel. I don't believe that those players would have left if they'd thought that there manager would be back again the following year, and that leaving the panel then would effectively spell the end of their intercounty aspirations.
- There is an issue with Mickey and the CB regarding speaking to RTE. As I understand it, when the new sponsors came in at the beginning of 2015, they were under the impression that the row with RTE was sorted. At our first league game, an RTE reporter asked Mickey for an interview and he refused. I've no idea who said what, but there was obviously a breakdown in communication between the CB, sponsors and Mickey. This incident apparently caused a major rift between Mickey and the County Chairperson.
- At the end of last season, Mickey went onto Teamtalkmag radio for his now traditional end of season interview. Despite being out of contract, he announced that he was staying on, and had already met the team to inform them of plans for 2016. This was a power play by Mickey, and a brilliant one at that. Having been clear about his intentions and getting the players onside, the CB was put on the back foot. Mickey ended up getting 2 of the 3 extra years he wanted, and the CB never got the chance to explore other options.
- After a decade of gradual decline, Tyrone have improved dramatically since the start of 2015. while Mickey will get a lot of the praise, I feel that the biggest change was the addition of Peter Donnelly as trainer at the beginning of 2015. Tyrone's previous trainer, Fergal McCann, was there from 2005-2014, and the team had started to look stale and well behind the other top sides in terms of fitness & conditioning. Donnelly has transformed them in this regard and, in my opinion, is the main reason for our improvement.
- Mickey Harte has managed Tyrone sides for 25 years, and the seniors for the last 14. Everyone in Tyrone has a firm opinion on him. Some love him, some can't stand him. That's the way it is with dogmatic, strong-minded people, especially when they've been around forever. As a result, when it comes to assessing his value as manager, it's very hard at the moment for any Tyrone gaels to make a judgement that's purely based on football. When he eventually does go and is no longer omnipresent, I think that it'll be easier to separate Mickey the manager from Mickey the man, and history will judge his achievements very favourably.
- Personally, Mickey gets under my skin for many reasons, but I think it would be foolish to oust him when the team are improving. Given my initial comment about the 'lame duck' scenario, the ideal would be for him to publically get 2 years, but privately resolve to stand down early at the end of 2017 if we don't take another step forward next year." Would you see Donnelly and Devlin as a potential management team post Mickey?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 08/09/2016 20:10:07
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Replying To neverright: "Would you see Donnelly and Devlin as a potential management team post Mickey?" No. Gavin is a nice lad with a big personality, but I've no idea what he brings to the table other than that. Peter Donnelly is a brilliant physical trainer and coach, but unproven as anything more just yet. There are no obvious internal candidates though, then again, you wouldn't expect there to be when one man has been at the helm for so long. That's why I'd let things run another year and see if we are still getting better.
Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 08/09/2016 20:41:59
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Harte is one of the best managers ever but the longer he stays the more it chips away at his legacy i feel. 3 all irelands is fantastic and beyond what tyrone could have hoped for. But when you consider he has managed tyrone for 14 years 3 all irelands sound less impressive.
Was it the group of players or Harte genius that won the all Ireland. Bit of both I suppose. But in the last 8 years we have won 2 ulster which isn't a great return. I don't count division 2 titles etc. Still the same failings as previous years e.g no free taker. Can't see why it will be addressed this year if it hasn't been the past few years.
I would say one of Hartes biggest failings is staying loyal to players that were past it or big names who have played badly in a game but still played through whole game. The thing I admire about jim galvin is that if a player is having a bad game he is taken off regardless of how big a man he is.
Also the argument of who will replace him is silly. If he goes next year or in 3 years time who is going to replace him then? Are people thinking that we should keep him until by some wonder a successful manager appears?
kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 08/09/2016 22:47:20
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Replying To The_Fridge: "He's 21-22? I'm very sure his time will come. Sooner rather than latter il say. I'm a huge fan of Lee. Hope he gets a good crack during the league to see if he can stand up to the physical demands of county football." I haven't seen him as often as the Tyrone lads but anytime I have be it u21 and senior run outs he looked special - reminds me of odonaghue of Kerry - low to ground, elusive, wants the ball, cocky. And he can hit a free - jeez that to me is better than at least 2 of your starting forwards - not sure what else he's supposed to do but then I don't see him at training - but I have seen mcalliskey, Oneill to name a few at big matches and they don't have any of the above to be honest.
IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 08/09/2016 23:00:15
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Replying To Thomas Clarke: "No. Gavin is a nice lad with a big personality, but I've no idea what he brings to the table other than that. Peter Donnelly is a brilliant physical trainer and coach, but unproven as anything more just yet. There are no obvious internal candidates though, then again, you wouldn't expect there to be when one man has been at the helm for so long. That's why I'd let things run another year and see if we are still getting better." Peter Donnelly has Tyrone at their fittest for years. I am sure that's his sole mission is to get their physique to a certain level and prevent injury. I can't understand what Gavin brings though. I think Tyrone is missing Tony Donnelly a lot.
border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 09/09/2016 22:32:49
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Heard from the horses mouth that the opposition to Mickie ( from within the county executive) was very rife at the Mayo games and that was clear to those sitting close to them. ( people from neighbouring counties) . People were amazed as Tyrone only lost by a point as the result of dodgy refereeing decisions.
border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 09/09/2016 22:46:21
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Replying To SaffronDon: "The time to do the talking for 2018 would be in 2017. As much as I respect what Mickey Harte has done for Tyrone, there were more questions than answers created after this season. The major flaws of the current team haven't improved since this time last year, even if they did win Ulster. If 2017 shows an improvement I would give him the time that he wants but like every other intercounty manager, it should be earned and not handed out for free." An ulster title is no mean achievement. I would have thought Antrim people of all people would appreciate that!
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 09/09/2016 23:21:38
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Replying To GetOverTheBar: "Depending on who you talk to in Tyrone - the demand for Harte to get another term is in and around 50/50 I'd say. There are certain players who don't/won't play for country for various reasons. I will not name anyone on a public forum that probably should be in the county set up though but I think most people will acknowledge there are certain issues.
That being said, I don't really know where they look to in a years time if Harte goes, Nigel Seaney of Trillick perhaps considering last year? Whoever wins the O'Neill cup this year in arguably one of the toughest ever years will shoot right to the top of the betting favourites.
Potentially the u21 management to succeed although I don't think that would appease supporters of Harte in any way and Tyrone won't go outside of the county I'd imagine.
I'd say it's fair enough to reject the year (after this one) to see where Tyrone are at - I thought if Donegal had of had a bit more bravery (with regards to the recycling of possession around HW) they'd have beaten them in the Ulster final and this would be an entirely different tone of conversation." Where does your 50/50 opinion poll come from? People who share your opinion? Of course there are grumpy players sitting on the sidelines. If they don't want to play for tyrone it's because they're not good enough. Tyrone does not need the I should've been a contender brigade. Better off without them for the past year
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 09/09/2016 23:27:30
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Replying To PolicemanFox: "I think the writing is on the wall for Mickey. Tyrone today remind me a bit of where they were in 2002. Good enough to negotiate Ulster but carrying too many of the wrong type of player to get over the line at All-Ireland level. They are weak enough in the forward line and for me only Donnelly and Harte look top class at the moment (apart from Cavanagh and the McMahons who are heading in the wrong direction). When Harte took over for 2003 he was able to make the necessary changes, now he seems to be unable to do so. Management is a ruthless business. Maybe some Tyrone posters could enlighten us but from what I remember the previous management got the shove unceremoniously to make way for Harte. History repeating perhaps?" In the same place as 2002? Hammered by Armagh in ulster and humiliated by Sligo in a qualifier. I would hardly describe 2016 as resembling 2002??
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 09/09/2016 23:30:37
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Every dog has its day..they blew it this year against mayo sitting back when the game was there for the taking.and thats down to harte and his way of playing.right decision to let him go.
GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 10/09/2016 10:25:21
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Replying To GGdub: "Every dog has its day..they blew it this year against mayo sitting back when the game was there for the taking.and thats down to harte and his way of playing.right decision to let him go." I did not think that Harte was taking all of those missed frees!
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 10/09/2016 14:54:11
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Replying To mayotyroneman: "An ulster title is no mean achievement. I would have thought Antrim people of all people would appreciate that!" i have no time for people on here who talk through me to my county. just because your arm chair is situated in a more successful county than mine doesn't mean im any less entitled to offer an opinion than you or anyone else. so if you can hear that from your high horse up there, maybe we can debate sensibly. if not, you know what you can do!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 10/09/2016 15:24:22
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Cannot believe this decision. M Hearte is not only one of the best GAA managers just look at his record at different grades but he comes across as a very decent human being. As regards his relationship with RTE, he was treated disgracefully by our national broadcaster. I cannot see how he could have, with honour, taken any other course of action. Pity more GAA managers didn't take a similar course of action.
mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 10/09/2016 15:40:10
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Replying To mod: "Cannot believe this decision. M Hearte is not only one of the best GAA managers just look at his record at different grades but he comes across as a very decent human being. As regards his relationship with RTE, he was treated disgracefully by our national broadcaster. I cannot see how he could have, with honour, taken any other course of action. Pity more GAA managers didn't take a similar course of action." This is a disgraceful decision by Tyrone Co Board. There can be no excuse unless there is something not known by the rest of us. And if there is something it should be made known so that the rest of the GAA world not be condemning them wrongly
michael (Cork) - Posts: 381 - 10/09/2016 21:47:29
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Poor decision, he should be given at least two years with the team he is building. They'll need a very good man to make them progress to a level further than Mickey will have them at by the end of 2017. Not saying they'll be champs but they'll be knocking on the door!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 10/09/2016 22:57:43
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Poor decision, he should be given at least two years with the team he is building. They'll need a very good man to make them progress to a level further than Mickey will have them at by the end of 2017. Not saying they'll be champs but they'll be knocking on the door!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 10/09/2016 22:59:31
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I don't know what the moaning is all about. Tyrone clubs are allowed to make this decision like any other county, it's called democracy. Mickey has been a brilliant servant for them but times change and fans are fickle. Tyrone want to get back on to the big stage and if Mickey doesn't deliver it someone else should get the chance.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 10/09/2016 23:24:30
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Replying To browncows: "I did not think that Harte was taking all of those missed frees!" Yea but he wasnt encouraging his team to get forward and go for it either was he..missed frees didnt lose them the game.it was their defensive stubburness and no plan b that lost it.the way dublin chased down kerry 5 points ahead in the semi says it all..
GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 11/09/2016 12:31:24
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