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Replying To JayP: "Copying Cluxton is weird..... its like copying Mayweather in boxing. It looks easy!!!!!" but surely someone can copy it to a c plus standard .
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 03/09/2016 11:08:39
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Replying To superbluedub: "Do you ever let up? its a major issue you have with Dublin, every and any opportunity you pounce , very sad." This is my most recent statement about Dublin on this board:
I believe Dublin will win the All-Ireland this year and get a minimum of 8 All-Stars and deservedly so.
But why let the truth get in the was of a good story, eh?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 03/09/2016 11:46:03
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Agree with a few posters here. Cluxton has changed goalkeeping forever - I can't give any higher praise than that.
Nothing to do with the OP but I really like the guy . No nonsense from him and I'd say he has been a great leader - just excellent at what he does .
I really only respected Paul Durcan when he left .
On to the topic - yes pushing up is key but you can't do it every time . First of all - it's actually impossible as you wouldn't get your men organised . Second - if a team say does it for the first three kickouts . Dublin will figure this out and simply bring their forwards back into the middle .
That would leave a massive vacuum in the opposing half if Dublin were to win their own ball in the breakdown.
That means Kilkenny , DC , Flynn and a few half backs running at you with 40 yards of space to play with. Basically what I'm saying is if you lose say 40% of the kickouts - you will be slaughtered.
So yes push up but not for 70 minutes unless your happy with the aforementioned players running at .
Now it must be done for certain periods but god no , not the entire match .
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 03/09/2016 12:05:57
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The best chance of beating the Dubs is to mark up on their kick outs. Cluxton is a great player but most of his kick outs are to unmarked players and you cannot give goods sides free kick outs-imagine allowing the opposition having un-contested kick outs in midfield and still expect to win the match. It appears most managers have little confidence in their own teams. When Monaghan in their league match pushed up on Cluxtons kick outs they were put in a winning position except for their poor decision making near the end. M. O'Shea saying that they did not push up because the Cluxton's kick outs are so fast make little sense to me-perhaps it was more that the Kerry forwards were not being quick enough to pick up their respective markers as ball goes out of play.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 03/09/2016 12:06:50
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Replying To browncows: "The best chance of beating the Dubs is to mark up on their kick outs. Cluxton is a great player but most of his kick outs are to unmarked players and you cannot give goods sides free kick outs-imagine allowing the opposition having un-contested kick outs in midfield and still expect to win the match. It appears most managers have little confidence in their own teams. When Monaghan in their league match pushed up on Cluxtons kick outs they were put in a winning position except for their poor decision making near the end. M. O'Shea saying that they did not push up because the Cluxton's kick outs are so fast make little sense to me-perhaps it was more that the Kerry forwards were not being quick enough to pick up their respective markers as ball goes out of play." If you're playing with an extra man in defence you can't go man for man.
If you've just been attacking you're not in a defensive shape and it only takes one your players to be caught out for there to be a spare man for Cluxton to hit.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 03/09/2016 12:59:42
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Whammo86 - you should not be playing with an extra man in defence if you have enough confidence in your team, furthermore if you want to win an All-Ireland, or indeed anything of significance you do require confidence and players with mobility and a high degree of awareness.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 03/09/2016 13:16:00
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Replying To browncows: "Whammo86 - you should not be playing with an extra man in defence if you have enough confidence in your team, furthermore if you want to win an All-Ireland, or indeed anything of significance you do require confidence and players with mobility and a high degree of awareness." Even without playing a sweeper if your forwards have just created a scoring chance then by definition they have lost their respective markers. If this is the case then it only takes one of them to remain free to pick up the kickout.
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 03/09/2016 13:58:52
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I know it would take a Tyrone man to say this but I think Mayo may need a bit of the dark arts to deal with cluxton's kick outs.
If I remember right Kevin McLoughlin did this a few years back against Dublin in a league game by obstructing Cluxton's kickout and ultimately got under Cluxton's skin by getting him sent off.Cluxton kicked McLoughin after he said some words in his ear and touched his hand.
Mayo forwards could obstruct cluxtons quick short kickout as subtle as possible .
Simple things by slipping on the ground in front of the ball when he is about to kick it , it can't be deemed purposeful if it is a slip. Walking infront of the kickout but not staying long enough to be cautioned etc. It would only be a matter of time before one of the forwards got yellow. I think they could really play this well if there was only a kick of the ball in it or if Mayo were winning with ten minutes to go. (Cluxton will want to waste time if they are a few points up)
If each forward wasn't on a yellow by the 60th minute then what is there to lose , each taking turns to in a subtle manor to obstruct the kick out until a yellow is shown . Thus slowing down the fast kick out and giving Mayo a chance to regroup bringing Dublin's chances of instant possession down and a breaking ball kick out more likely.
Horrible stuff lads I know , just a theory but this is the type of stuff managers be thinking of coming up to a final.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 03/09/2016 15:29:32
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It's amazing really that teams have to come up with a whole team strategy to combat a goalkeeper.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2016 17:33:40
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Replying To browncows: "Whammo86 - you should not be playing with an extra man in defence if you have enough confidence in your team, furthermore if you want to win an All-Ireland, or indeed anything of significance you do require confidence and players with mobility and a high degree of awareness." There are attacking advantages to playing an extra man in defence.
Can create a bit extra space in the forward line.
This whole man for man, you should trust your own players stuff is just silly.
Teams play the way they play, they work on the way they play. If a manager believes that playing with an extra man back he should do it.
There are drawbacks though, I think most top managers understand that but overall they still feel they're doing the best for their teams.
Most of them I'd trust over any of us on here.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 03/09/2016 17:49:17
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I'd imagine dublin will spend time on a counter plan for when mayo go after Cluxtons kick outs and push up don't think it's doable for the entire game but ud think they'd be prepared
rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 619 - 03/09/2016 18:34:40
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Replying To GameOfTyrones: "I know it would take a Tyrone man to say this but I think Mayo may need a bit of the dark arts to deal with cluxton's kick outs.
If I remember right Kevin McLoughlin did this a few years back against Dublin in a league game by obstructing Cluxton's kickout and ultimately got under Cluxton's skin by getting him sent off.Cluxton kicked McLoughin after he said some words in his ear and touched his hand.
Mayo forwards could obstruct cluxtons quick short kickout as subtle as possible .
Simple things by slipping on the ground in front of the ball when he is about to kick it , it can't be deemed purposeful if it is a slip. Walking infront of the kickout but not staying long enough to be cautioned etc. It would only be a matter of time before one of the forwards got yellow. I think they could really play this well if there was only a kick of the ball in it or if Mayo were winning with ten minutes to go. (Cluxton will want to waste time if they are a few points up)
If each forward wasn't on a yellow by the 60th minute then what is there to lose , each taking turns to in a subtle manor to obstruct the kick out until a yellow is shown . Thus slowing down the fast kick out and giving Mayo a chance to regroup bringing Dublin's chances of instant possession down and a breaking ball kick out more likely.
Horrible stuff lads I know , just a theory but this is the type of stuff managers be thinking of coming up to a final." Agreed horrible stuff.
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 03/09/2016 20:02:13
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Replying To superbluedub: "Agreed horrible stuff." Aye it is but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was used.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 03/09/2016 23:38:44
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Most of them I'd trust over any of us on here .
Whammo86
You may, but I would not-Lots of top managers make many mistakes just as top players do and watching last Sunday's game demonstrates that point
AHP -irrespective of how fast you are at kicking out the ball there is still enough time for good players to man -up if they have physical pace and of pace of mind. Monaghan did it against Cluxton in league match
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 04/09/2016 13:17:01
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Replying To browncows: "Most of them I'd trust over any of us on here .
Whammo86
You may, but I would not-Lots of top managers make many mistakes just as top players do and watching last Sunday's game demonstrates that point
AHP -irrespective of how fast you are at kicking out the ball there is still enough time for good players to man -up if they have physical pace and of pace of mind. Monaghan did it against Cluxton in league match" It's all very easy sounding written here.
It just isn't that easy on the field of play where the game is so fast.
Even players at this level players need some recovery between plays.
If you were to manage a team your forwards would be wrecked to the point of being good for nothing after about 15 minutes.
I don't know where your supply of players of superior speed of body and mind comes from. Managers are limited by the players at their disposal. They have to come up with how to use them as best they can. A lot of time that involves not playing in the traditional style.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 04/09/2016 16:16:58
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'I don't know where your supply of players of superior speed of body and mind comes from. Managers are limited by the players at their disposal. They have to come up with how to use them as best they can. A lot of time that involves not playing in the traditional style'.
Whammo86
I'm not posting about managers- Mayo are in the final and they will have the same number of players on the field as Dublin and I expect them not to stand and admire them- I don't think that the are limited by players at their disposal either. The game is still about winning the ball and using it well. There are many mangers who try all sorts of tricks that some of their own players don't even understand or follow. Conceding kick outs to a good team is pretty stupid tactic/plan if you are serious about winning a match- it may be good to keep the score 'respectable' if that is your goal. You can concede ball to a weak team and expect to win it back
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 04/09/2016 17:26:04
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Replying To browncows: "'I don't know where your supply of players of superior speed of body and mind comes from. Managers are limited by the players at their disposal. They have to come up with how to use them as best they can. A lot of time that involves not playing in the traditional style'.
Whammo86
I'm not posting about managers- Mayo are in the final and they will have the same number of players on the field as Dublin and I expect them not to stand and admire them- I don't think that the are limited by players at their disposal either. The game is still about winning the ball and using it well. There are many mangers who try all sorts of tricks that some of their own players don't even understand or follow. Conceding kick outs to a good team is pretty stupid tactic/plan if you are serious about winning a match- it may be good to keep the score 'respectable' if that is your goal. You can concede ball to a weak team and expect to win it back" Your talking tactics which are determined by managers.
The inter county managers particularly at the top teams are really knowledgeable smart people, with huge experience in the game.
I don't think they're conceding kick outs for the sake of it. Ideally I'm sure they wouldn't. There must be good reasons why they choose to do so.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 04/09/2016 18:35:58
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Lads on my team do be at me to give them short kickouts while they are standing still 5 yards behind their men. Eejits
If you have half backs, half forwards and midfielders who are courageous and willing to make a run into space and a keeper as talented as Cluxton to find them then it doesn't matter how much you push up.
Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 754 - 05/09/2016 03:11:35
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Ray Galligan kickouts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cluxton kickouts
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12121 - 05/09/2016 10:13:58
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Replying To Breffni39: "Ray Galligan kickouts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cluxton kickouts" Definitely
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 05/09/2016 10:24:05
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