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The Best ever

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You cant compare across the generations as techniques and sport science move on at a rate of knots you can only compare them to what is around them. The game on Sunday was good but the rose tinted glasses have definitely been on because of the lack of any other real close top drawer games over the last year or so.

This Dublin team are excellent but they aren't far enough ahead of the competition and haven't dominated for the length of time required (yet) to class them as anything other than an excellent team. The doomsayers will be out in force, and whilst they may be hot favorites they still haven't done 2 in a row yet and would need a few more under their belts before best ever and all that craic comes into play.

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 31/08/2016 16:51:50    1908782

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Replying To plike:  "What utter tripe! Teams of yore didn't have the money, the time or the knowledge (about fitness, diet and tactics) as they do now. So, to assume that Mick O'Connell would have his backside handed to him on a plate by David Moran is to assume far too much. Another example would be Matt Connor, who was, imho, the best of the best. Is anyone in their right mind suggesting that he wouldn't get a start with the current crop of 'titans'?.... Pfff...The logic of a child, if you will.

In athletics Nuhrmi and Zatopek would give anyone now a run for their money, if the same time and money was lavished on them as is the case with modern show ponies. And this isn't to talk about their being clean and the current crop being anything but."
Not my fault they didn't have the money etc,I'm simply saying that "this" Dubs team would beat "that" Kerry team. Your making it about what ifs and maybes. And sure who knows if those guys of the 80's would have had the drive and commitment to make themselves as good as this Dublin team even if they had all the money in the world.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 31/08/2016 21:09:22    1908860

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Replying To Thomas Clarke:  "The physical gap between elite long/high jumpers in the 90s and those of today is much smaller than the gap between GAA athletes of the 70s and today. Carl Lewis, Mike Powell etc were operating at the cutting edge of physical preparation, whereas Jack O'Shea etc weren't. They were superbly fit, but they weren't training, eating and rehabing in remotely the same way that players do now.

Had Spillane, Egan, Sheehy etc been living & playing nowadays, they would still have been superstars. But put the current Dublin side in a time machine and take them back to play those guys as they were in the 70s, and the 2016 Dubs would beat them by 30 points."
Exactly the point I was making.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 31/08/2016 21:14:36    1908862

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The game on sunday was a cracker but the best ever is stretching it a bit.The best game lately only because of how structured and defensive the game has become.I have seen better league games in parnell park over the years and before meaths current slump games against them were every bit as good.The fact it was kerry in a semi will make it more memorable

CaogaCuig (Dublin) - Posts: 63 - 01/09/2016 00:22:30    1908919

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Replying To avonali:  "and what about the 'tackle' made on Philly MacMahon?????"
Very fair point . It was every bit as bad as the tackle on Crowley . It was from a much more difficult position for a freetaker and was on the wrong side for Dean Rock .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/09/2016 01:58:44    1908924

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Replying To Thomas Clarke:  "The physical gap between elite long/high jumpers in the 90s and those of today is much smaller than the gap between GAA athletes of the 70s and today. Carl Lewis, Mike Powell etc were operating at the cutting edge of physical preparation, whereas Jack O'Shea etc weren't. They were superbly fit, but they weren't training, eating and rehabing in remotely the same way that players do now.

Had Spillane, Egan, Sheehy etc been living & playing nowadays, they would still have been superstars. But put the current Dublin side in a time machine and take them back to play those guys as they were in the 70s, and the 2016 Dubs would beat them by 30 points."
Man for man that great Kerry side were better footballers than this Dublin team . Bring them forward and allow them to prepare in exactly the same way as Dublin do and they would be impossible to stop. That is not to say I don't respect this Dublin team . They are outstanding .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/09/2016 02:04:25    1908925

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "Not my fault they didn't have the money etc,I'm simply saying that "this" Dubs team would beat "that" Kerry team. Your making it about what ifs and maybes. And sure who knows if those guys of the 80's would have had the drive and commitment to make themselves as good as this Dublin team even if they had all the money in the world."
Some of them had the drive and commitment to drive from Dublin in 70's cars on 70's roads to make 30 training sessions held on 30 successive nights in Kerry . They more than likely stayed in Kerry for the weekends. This Dublin team
live and train in Dubln and have travelled outside of Dublin once for a championship match in the last ten years . You can question many things about the great Kerry team but only a fool would question their drive, ambition and dedication.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/09/2016 02:11:44    1908926

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Very fair point . It was every bit as bad as the tackle on Crowley . It was from a much more difficult position for a freetaker and was on the wrong side for Dean Rock ."
True, that tackle was much further out and on the wrong side for Rock as you say, but it did prevent an overlap that would have left Dublin with a free man running at the Kerry defence at pace, and it also resulted in possession and another attack for Kerry.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 01/09/2016 11:47:19    1909056

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Replying To AHP:  "True, that tackle was much further out and on the wrong side for Rock as you say, but it did prevent an overlap that would have left Dublin with a free man running at the Kerry defence at pace, and it also resulted in possession and another attack for Kerry."
And with Dublin those opportunities tend to end up as scores .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/09/2016 13:45:13    1909127

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Some of them had the drive and commitment to drive from Dublin in 70's cars on 70's roads to make 30 training sessions held on 30 successive nights in Kerry .
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I think this might have happened once if ever at all. Some of You lads are obviously not happy about how good this Dublin team is and want to minimize their achievements and talents. Knock yerselves out there cos history will tell the tale differently. If the 2 teams played today the Dubs would destroy them,that's all I'm sayin.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 03/09/2016 17:51:01    1909710

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "Some of them had the drive and commitment to drive from Dublin in 70's cars on 70's roads to make 30 training sessions held on 30 successive nights in Kerry .
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I think this might have happened once if ever at all. Some of You lads are obviously not happy about how good this Dublin team is and want to minimize their achievements and talents. Knock yerselves out there cos history will tell the tale differently. If the 2 teams played today the Dubs would destroy them,that's all I'm sayin."
Of course they would. So would any decent modern team. Almost all aspects of the game have evolved and the general fitness and preparation especially would be miles ahead these days. Measuring a 70's team by today's standard is just pure daft.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/09/2016 19:59:02    1909734

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I always try not to compare teams or players from different era's as the game changes or evolves on a regular basis, even within one owns county people often make comparisons but I will say one thing, I think the Kerry team from 75 to 86 was a one off and will never be matched and here is one massive reason why, they had no safety net.. teams nowadays have the qualifiers if they have an off day that option was not available back then meaning that they had to perform to the max to progress - Dublin have weak links and can be rattled certain players do let the side down at times however that Kerry team did not have that weakness every panel member were blinkered in their belief to win they were never beaten and that is just one reason why I think Kerry are better, just throw a few out there - Johnno is better than Cooper or Carroll, Horse would eat Cian for breakfast, Jacko would maul Fenton/MD Mac, both Paidi and Paudie would win out - as for up front, Bomber, Egan, Sheehy Pat etc. Oige.. ah sorry lads the more I compare the worse it sounds

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 03/09/2016 20:57:50    1909752

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It's impossible to compare between generations in any sport.

All that you can say is that this Dublin team is rightfully making its way into the conversation of best ever. Kerry of the 70s and Kerry of the 2000s are probably also in the conversation.

A simple tally of titles isn't enough as its hard to judge the quality of opposition each team were facing.

Kerry of the 2000s had a very good Tyrone team to do battle with plus challenges in Armagh, Cork and to a lesser extent Dublin.

Some say this Dublin team have an easy ride as there's no challenger as close to them as Tyrone were to Kerry. It's hard to say if that's because the standard of the challengers has dropped or is it actually because this Dublin team are so incredibly good.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 04/09/2016 11:37:13    1909849

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "I always try not to compare teams or players from different era's as the game changes or evolves on a regular basis, even within one owns county people often make comparisons but I will say one thing, I think the Kerry team from 75 to 86 was a one off and will never be matched and here is one massive reason why, they had no safety net.. teams nowadays have the qualifiers if they have an off day that option was not available back then meaning that they had to perform to the max to progress - Dublin have weak links and can be rattled certain players do let the side down at times however that Kerry team did not have that weakness every panel member were blinkered in their belief to win they were never beaten and that is just one reason why I think Kerry are better, just throw a few out there - Johnno is better than Cooper or Carroll, Horse would eat Cian for breakfast, Jacko would maul Fenton/MD Mac, both Paidi and Paudie would win out - as for up front, Bomber, Egan, Sheehy Pat etc. Oige.. ah sorry lads the more I compare the worse it sounds"
Good points mate, that said though quater finals as well were not in existence so i suppose the arguement could be made that, that undoubted great Kerry team had less exposure to quality opposition, i think someone made the point a few weeks back that in one year Kerry even got a bye to the Munster final and three games to Sam so they wouldnt trounce the rest of Munster. If you took this year as an example and Dublin were to win Sam they would have played Donegal, Kerry and Mayo to do so, two teams that have one the top prize in the last 5 years and another who have consistently been in finals and semis since the turn of the century and to be honest been the best team not to win one in the last five years.

I suppose my broad point is the way the game has developed is it more competitive now then say Kerry and Dublin had it in the 70s and eighties. This Dublin team is a long way from finishing, despite the popular narriatve i suppose the broader conversation will happen when they eventually do finish. Someone like James McCarthy is going for his fourth all Ireland and is 26.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/09/2016 12:13:26    1909852

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The Kerry team in the noughties has to be up there with the best of them. There is no comparison between that team and say the Kerry team that lined out in this years semi final. Back then you had Gooch, Donaghy, O mahoney and Mark O Shea in their prime. Add in the two other O Sheas, Galvin, McCarthy, Declan O Sullivan, Russell and a young Sheehan and Darren O Sullivan and they were a serious outfit. How many of the present days team would get a game? Geaney, Murphy, a fit O Donoghue and maybe one or two others. If that team were about at the minute only Dublin would give them a game.

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1113 - 05/09/2016 23:08:38    1910479

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