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None of them teams were any serious threat. Tyrone had some great players but they had plenty of luck in that they won three and yet were beaten in two of those campaigns. Could Down/ Derry/Donegal have won more??? You seem to be blinded that more recent equals better. Surely you can see that if you have two chances (and sometimes the qualifier route was the better route) it was easier to win the All Ireland? ?? If you can't see that this conversation is pointless? ?? REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 22:14:33 1890686 Link 0 |
Tyrone is the best side in Ulster in the last 30 years. That team won minor, u21 and senior championships. Only team to ever play 10 matches on way to winning All Ireland. 2005. Twas the most memorable and exciting championship for years. The Tyrone Armagh battles excited the whole country. Brilliant memories. border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 26/07/2016 22:59:19 1890714 Link 0 |
You do realise that it wasn't just Tyrone who got a second bite at the cherry in 2005 & 2008? Surely it's tougher to win due to the backdoor, as the top sides now all congregate in the semi-finals year after year, and any of them who were shocked in June have come back into the mix. Ask Cork if it is easier to win all-irelands in the modern era. There was a period when they'd quite regularly beat Kerry in Munster, only to fail in trying to do the same again in Croke Park later in the summer. Was it easier for Cork to beat Kerry twice than once? Breffni's point earlier is the key one in this particular strand of the argument. It's very easier to say 'so and so would have won more in the current era', but they couldn't all win more as there's only one AI winner per year! And to take up Alano's point, competitive doesn't equate to quality. I'd place more emphasis on the teams at the top. For instance, the late 1970s is considered a vintage era for gaelic football, not because it had strength in depth, but because the top sides (Dublin/Kerry) played at such a great level. What made the noughties unusual was that there were 3 genuinely top sides going at it year after year, plus a smattering of very good sides (Dublin, Cork, Mayo, Donegal) who would probably have had more success had they come along a few years later. Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 26/07/2016 23:19:32 1890718 Link 0 |
As I said in the beginning its too close to call in terms of the two sides.Down won two under a do or die system. If we had lost once we would have been gone. Given that Ulster was so tough in that era it was do or die every day we went out.Tyrone won three under a more advantageous system still a very good achievement to win three under that system. But the pressure of the do or die nature was not there on every game. They could afford mistakes like in 2005 and 2008. Thus the pressure was not on as much as early. When the pressure is on mistakes are more likely. I think that sums it up fairly. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 23:43:43 1890725 Link 0 |
it's nice to see a thread about the railway Cup. s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 26/07/2016 23:49:02 1890726 Link 0 |
you mean when kerry were missing 2 of their best players?..the fact is that that down team is one of the worst teams in recent times to ever reach an all ireland final
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 23:54:05 1890727 Link 0 |
your whole argument is based on the qualifiers and the 'good old days'...you ignore the level of opposition teams have to face in the quarters sometimes, tyrone had to play armagh 3 times in 2005,..tyrone beat a pretty good dublin team, armagh and kerry to win their all ireland...you have to play more games and its much more difficult now to win an all ireland..under the old system you could face the weakest province and have a handy route to the final and you would not have to beat a team more than once...player for player tyrone were simply a lot superior and more gifted...they beat a truly great kerry side on 3 occasions...armagh were a more dominant ulster side then any of those in the 90s and ulster was pretty strong in the 00s with likes of fermanagh, derry, donegal having good years as well as tyrone..competition does not equal quality..its the same in hurling where people had this notion that the year clare won was suddenly better..the reality is that the standard dropped substantially with kilkenny in a very brief rebuilding mode..
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 23:58:25 1890729 Link 0 |
exactly...cork would have multiple all irelands if it wasnt for the backdoor and kerry turning up to beat them!
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 23:59:59 1890730 Link 0 |
Under the old system there was always a chance that a team could be ambushed and they were gone for the year. The qualifiers eliminated that threat and aided the top teams by enabling them to gain momentum by getting a few winnable matches to get up and running again even if you lost an early match. So they were actually more beneficial to top sides than lower ranked teams. The ambush knock out was gone as if you beat a team they weren't knocked out, they just took a different path. As everything in life it is much easier with a safety net. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 27/07/2016 00:00:02 1890731 Link 0 |
I never said we were a great team but we were very good that year with Coulter, Clarke, Hughes etc in the forward line. Its just bias if you can't see we played great that day. We were winning by 9 points before Kerry got a last gasp penalty. We also didn't have to employ any systems or tactics we just went for it from the off (Poland goal within the first minute). REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 27/07/2016 01:07:51 1890742 Link 0 |
Its easier with a safety net than it was before the qualifiers came in. You can lose a match and still win the All Ireland. You can have one bad match when before you couldn't. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 27/07/2016 01:12:03 1890745 Link 0 |
Lads give the Down man what he wants, he has nothing left to hold on to. Down are the greatest county ever to play the game and the last bastions of free flowing football! redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 27/07/2016 08:55:38 1890773 Link 0 |
I loved watching the Down team which won 2 All Irelands in the 1990's (apart from when the beat us in 1991), great full forward line, Greg Blaney kicking the ball into this full forward line. I would really like to rate this Down team first but being fair Tyrone team that won 3 All Irelands would have to get my vote (even if 1990's Down's style was better to watch). What seals for me is that they were around at a time when a really great Kerry team was there, all 3 All Ireland win's they beat this Kerry team and never lost to Kerry in that time. They had a real competitive edge to them (and in Canavan an all-time great player). It is fair to bring up the back door (of course it is better to win All Irelands being unbeaten) but you have to say each year (just like Kerry at the time) their preparation usually was focused on August onwards more than winning team provincial titles. Armagh of 2000's very good team also, better than all other Ulster teams who won 1 All Ireland in this time frame. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1351 - 27/07/2016 08:59:07 1890776 Link 0 |
If youre talking about just single season teams Donegal 2012 would be hard to look past, Beat Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork and Mayo, 3 of the previous 4 All Ireland winners, Down 2 years removed from a final appearance and a Mayo side that had beaten the holders. joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 27/07/2016 11:08:17 1890853 Link 0 |
Good work taking the time to do that This now provides us with the detailed statistic's of the Ulster Championship over the last 30 years, showing Donegal have won the most Ulster Championship games, while Tyrone have won the most Ulster titles, followed by Armagh and Derry. GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 27/07/2016 11:15:30 1890856 Link 0 |
Donegal were very very impressive in 2012. I remember watching them in the Ulster final vs Down and thinking 'This team look unbeatable'. It's the first time I've ever said that about any Ulster side I've seen play. Granted we were no world beaters but we actually had a decent side in 2012 and Donegal dismantled us with ease in the second half. Even when Down played Tyrone during the 03-08 period I always felt we were capable of an upset. The organisation, movement, pace, power, skill and consistency level of that Donegal team was something I had not witness before. The complete package. No one in Ireland could begrudge them an All-Ireland for sure. However, Donegal have been unable to reach those same levels since. MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 27/07/2016 11:22:13 1890860 Link 0 |
On average the difficulty level of winning an All Ireland is the same pre and post qualifiers. What you can say though is that there's less variance now and that the All Ireland winner today is more likely to be the best team in the country than they were in the pre-qualifier days. Best single year team I'd go for Donegal Best team Tyrone 03-08 at the end of the day it's all about the All Ireland, back door-front door it doesn't matter. Going through the back door you still have to win at least the same number of games. You'll tend to have a harder quarter-final through the back door. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/07/2016 12:18:46 1890890 Link 1 |
Overall standard in the 00s was far lower than the early 90s. Posters talking about strong Dublin and Laois ! teams were in the 00s says it all. Neither would even have got near a Leinster final let alone compete for the All Ireland in the early 90s. Probably the worst Dublin team for 50 years and a Laois team than won 1 Leinster title in a really poor era. bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 27/07/2016 12:26:02 1890894 Link 0 |
But the Tyrone and Armagh teams of 02 - 06 were miles ahead of anything from the 90s. Absolutely miles ahead!
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 27/07/2016 13:18:52 1890921 Link 0 |
Pillar Caffrey's Dublin were the worst Dublin side in the last 50 years? Are you for real? Worse than in the late 60s / early 70s? Worse than in the late 80s or late 90s? Pillar's Dublin were a very good side who played an exciting brand of football. They were extremely competitive in a vintage age for gaelic football, and would probably have been rewarded with an AI in some other eras. Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 27/07/2016 13:56:20 1890944 Link 0 |