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Replying To bad.monkey: "Right, cavan 1997 for me so...
Anymore who thinks football was stronger in the 00's compared to the early 90s is seriously delusional or too young to remember!" I think it's the latter, too young to remember.
I've seen Down, Derry, Donegal, Armagh and Tyrone all in their peek in the last 25 years.
For me, Down and Tyrone are the two standouts. Armagh were very good but not on the same level after 2002.
The work rate of that Down 91-94 team was exceptional. The pressure the forwards applied on the defenders, the swarming in particular, was something akin to modern Gaelic football that we see today. Outstanding.
MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 26/07/2016 17:06:38
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Honestly, by a country mile, Tyrone 2005-2008
If i was picking the greatest sides of all time I would have Kerry in the 70's, Dublin in the present day and Tyrone in the 00's as the 3 greatest" You could be opening up a huge can of worms there Liam!
Do you think the current Dublin team are better than the Kerry team that reached 6 finals in a row in the 00s?
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 26/07/2016 17:07:23
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Replying To mhaith_fear: "Derry??! Ahead of Armagh and Donegal? are you serious? Derry have won two Ulsters in 30 years, the last being nearly 20 years ago." Yeah look at the flair and class that great Derry team had they would have won way more all-irelands only for the no back door system and strength of Ulster at the time. (in my head anyway!).
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 26/07/2016 17:08:44
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Replying To MourneArmy: "I think it's the latter, too young to remember.
I've seen Down, Derry, Donegal, Armagh and Tyrone all in their peek in the last 25 years.
For me, Down and Tyrone are the two standouts. Armagh were very good but not on the same level after 2002.
The work rate of that Down 91-94 team was exceptional. The pressure the forwards applied on the defenders, the swarming in particular, was something akin to modern Gaelic football that we see today. Outstanding." I think Armagh actually improved after 2002 and were a better team in 03 and in 05 in particular.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 26/07/2016 17:17:27
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Replying To ziggy32001: " Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy.
redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 26/07/2016 17:18:43
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So Down, Derry, Donegal, Dublin and a few more would've certainly won a few more All-Irelands if the back door existed in the 90s?
Exactly how many All-Irelands are we sharing around in this ludicrously irrelevant hypothetical scenario?
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 26/07/2016 17:19:41
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Whatever about the last 30 years the Down team of the 1960s
were undoubtedly the best Ulster team ever in a decade in terms
of statistics (3 All Irelands, 6 Ulsters, 10 Ulster finals, 3 NFLs). That
they are the best is indisputable given their consistency. Also won
In a decade when there was another all time great side- Galway
who won three in a row.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 17:19:51
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Replying To redhanddefender: " Replying To ziggy32001: "[quote=REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy."]The 1990s were far more competitive. Meath were a brilliant
side in 1991 but it took them four games to get past Dublin.
Ulster was harder to win in the early 1990s. Derry were superb.
Donegal. Galway had a great side in late 1990s. Kildare had a
very good side. Dublin were tough to beat. Tyrone were up
and coming. I remember Armagh giving us a hard game in 1991.
Donegal were in trouble in their first round in 1992. It was do or
die. Meath were "the team that couldn't be beaten" for god sake.
A class outfit.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 17:34:11
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Cavan were the standard bearers in Ulster (37 Ulsters
is some haul). Were still a very good side even in the
1960s. Just one Ulster since 1969 but still they deserve
great credit for their record.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 17:46:16
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Cavan were the standard bearers in Ulster (37 Ulsters
is some haul). Were still a very good side even in the
1960s. Just one Ulster since 1969 but still they deserve
great credit for their record." Even in the 60s begob!
39 Ulsters by the way
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 26/07/2016 18:21:25
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While you're educating us all on the history and stats Redandblack, can you tell me how many Ulsters down have won since 1995?
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 26/07/2016 18:39:07
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Replying To Breffni39: "While you're educating us all on the history and stats Redandblack, can you tell me how many Ulsters down have won since 1995?" Yeah 39 I mistyped that was looking
at Wikipedia. None since 1995. Whats
your point??? You must have a real
hatred of Down if you have a go when
I actually said Cavan had the best record???
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 18:55:53
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Hard one to call. My two picks would be the Down team of the early 90's and the Tyrone team of the early 00's. Hard to seperate them as the football played was very different in the 10 years. Both teams oozed class and had that tough element to their defences, ala DJ Kane and Ryan Mc Menamin. I'll go for Down on the simple reality that they didn't have the safety net of a back door and played in a very competitive Ulster Championship at a time when Donegal and Derry also won All Irelands and a very talented Tyrone team reached the All Ireland Final in '95.
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 26/07/2016 19:32:28
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: " Replying To redhanddefender: "[quote=ziggy32001: "[quote=REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy."]The 1990s were far more competitive. Meath were a brilliant
side in 1991 but it took them four games to get past Dublin.
Ulster was harder to win in the early 1990s. Derry were superb.
Donegal. Galway had a great side in late 1990s. Kildare had a
very good side. Dublin were tough to beat. Tyrone were up
and coming. I remember Armagh giving us a hard game in 1991.
Donegal were in trouble in their first round in 1992. It was do or
die. Meath were "the team that couldn't be beaten" for god sake.
A class outfit."]competitive doesnt equal quality..what sides in the 90s were near the level of armagh tyrone and kerry?..the kerry 97 team was nowhere close to the kerry team of the 00s...your not the most biased observer....classic fan remembering the good old days when his team was going well seems to be the gist
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 20:46:25
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Replying To alano12: " Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=redhanddefender: "[quote=ziggy32001: "[quote=REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy."]The 1990s were far more competitive. Meath were a brilliant
side in 1991 but it took them four games to get past Dublin.
Ulster was harder to win in the early 1990s. Derry were superb.
Donegal. Galway had a great side in late 1990s. Kildare had a
very good side. Dublin were tough to beat. Tyrone were up
and coming. I remember Armagh giving us a hard game in 1991.
Donegal were in trouble in their first round in 1992. It was do or
die. Meath were "the team that couldn't be beaten" for god sake.
A class outfit."]competitive doesnt equal quality..what sides in the 90s were near the level of armagh tyrone and kerry?..the kerry 97 team was nowhere close to the kerry team of the 00s...your not the most biased observer....classic fan remembering the good old days when his team was going well seems to be the gist"]Nothing to do with that the 2000s were not a great era imo.
There were three teams in that era. Hardly strength in depth
if you only had three teams. Also the safety net of the back
door so the one off shock knock out was taken out of the
equation. There were three great teams in Ulster alone
in the early 1990s.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 21:10:36
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Replying To alano12: " Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=redhanddefender: "[quote=ziggy32001: "[quote=REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy."]The 1990s were far more competitive. Meath were a brilliant
side in 1991 but it took them four games to get past Dublin.
Ulster was harder to win in the early 1990s. Derry were superb.
Donegal. Galway had a great side in late 1990s. Kildare had a
very good side. Dublin were tough to beat. Tyrone were up
and coming. I remember Armagh giving us a hard game in 1991.
Donegal were in trouble in their first round in 1992. It was do or
die. Meath were "the team that couldn't be beaten" for god sake.
A class outfit."]competitive doesnt equal quality..what sides in the 90s were near the level of armagh tyrone and kerry?..the kerry 97 team was nowhere close to the kerry team of the 00s...your not the most biased observer....classic fan remembering the good old days when his team was going well seems to be the gist"]When would you say Ulster was harder to win??? Early
1990s or 2000s??? Like it was murder in the early 1990s
even to get the chance to compete for an All Ireland. And
no safety net. From 1991 to 1994 Down, Derry and Donegal
were the best in Ireland. Tyrone were up and coming and
Armagh, Cavan and Monaghan able to rattle a few cages on
their day.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 21:25:27
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again you are not being genuine in your posts...donegal, dublin, cork, mayo, laois all decent sides during the 00s and derry werent bad a couple of years..galway were a good side for a while and meath also had a couple of good years...tyrone and kerry were head and shoulders above any side in the 90s
you mistake competitive with good...the premier league is currently competitive but the quality is very poor...there is simply no side from ulster who has been as good as tyrone in the 00s who if had a bit more luck could have won even more all irelands possibly
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 21:35:31
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there is a reason down reached the all ireland in 2010...it wasnt because the championship was any better or more competitive..it was down to the standard dropping off
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/07/2016 21:37:40
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Replying To redhanddefender: " Replying To ziggy32001: "[quote=REDANDBLACK30: "[quote=Thomas Clarke: "Maybe this will spell it out more clearly:
Armagh
1999 - Ulster Champions
2000 - Ulster Champions
2001 - Nothing (lost Ulster to champions Tyrone, and in qualifiers to AI champs Galway by a point)
2002 - Ulster & AI Champions
2003 - Nothing (lost AI final to Tyrone)
2004 - Ulster Champions
2005 - Ulster Champions & NFL Champions
2006 - Ulster Champions
2007 - Nothing
2008 - Ulster Champions
Down
1987 - Nothing
1988 - Nothing
1989 - Nothing
1990 - Nothing
1991 - Ulster & AI Champions
1992 - Nothing
1993 - Nothing
1994 - Ulster & AI Champions
1995 - Nothing
1996 - Nothing
1997 - Nothing
In all those years, Down only reached one other Ulster final (1996), whereas Armagh's record and consistency was tremendous.
I'd also dispute that the overall standard was higher in the early 90s. Meath and Mayo were in between sides, while Kerry were at their lowest ever ebb. Cork too were on the slide, having reached 4 successive finals between 87-90. Dublin were strong, though that Dublin side wasn't close to the current side, while Tyrone hadn't yet arrived by the time Down won their AIs. Derry and Donegal were both excellent sides.
Overall, I think with Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh to the fore, and very good Dublin, Donegal and Mayo sides just behind them, the mid noughties were certainly stronger that the early 90s. The top 3 were all better than anything from the early 90s, in my opinion. Despite this, Armagh had far more success than that Down team did, aside from the elusive 2nd AI that somehow escaped them. Again, I don't want this to seem like I'm disregarding Down, as I thought they were a brilliant side - i just think that we've seen a few better since." Thomas you lose the strength of your argument by saying the 2000s was stronger than the 1990s. There were only three good teams in the 2000s. The 1990s were much more competitive. Ulster was murder to win."
Those saying the football of the 2000's was better than the 90's are not too young to remember. I would hazard a guess that you lot are at the age now where the memory is going a bit hazy."]I can go back to the early 60's and my memory not gone hazy. But football has changed massive since then.
As regards the best Ulster team of the last 30 years Tyrone more or less stand out 03/05/08 sides.
But we must remember that Armagh got harsh treatment towards the end of the 2003 AI final--- the wrongful dismissal of D Marsden. Would Tyrone have still won had Armagh all 15 players on board??
Remember D Marsden was a top forward. Plus C Gourley( I think it was him) who made the block on S McDonald as he fired for goal
But by winning the 2008 All Ireland seals it for Tyrone.
Also in 2003 I was at the semi final Donegalv Armagh where we lost R Sweeney after half time and we're still level at 69 minutes before Armagh scored 1-1 to win by four points. So we had a pretty good team and all at that time(2002/2003 and don't forget we beat Tyrone in 2004 Ulster Championship
But we were not as well organised as any of the other two
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 26/07/2016 21:41:21
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Replying To alano12: "there is a reason down reached the all ireland in 2010...it wasnt because the championship was any better or more competitive..it was down to the standard dropping off" We availed of the back door system.
We were able to build up through
the qualifiers and with a bit of luck
we made it to the final and could of
won it. Watch the way Down played
against Kerry in the quarter final- no
one could say our football was not
of a very high standard that day. Kerry
played very good too. Plus it was
entertaining to watch.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 26/07/2016 22:00:14
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