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Replying To SaffronDon: "Antrim lost to both Meath and Limerick last week. Coming into both games we were seen as favourites and lost. I hate when guys question the teams commitment though. These are the guys who've put in effort to get to where they are. They devote ridiculous amounts of their time to doing their best for Antrim, those guys have the right mentality, they just aren't good enough.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:449 - 01/07/2016 13:00:38 1874647
You might be right about some players in Antrim having total commitment to the cause but to say that all of them do is naive. There are several examples of players who jack in the county jersey as soon as the club championship begins. Some even book holidays when they know they've got county matches to play. That is far from the right mentality and even if its only a few lads its enough to ruin the match preparation for the rest of the committed players, whom I do have sympathy for.
As far as talent goes, our young players don't seem to have any problems getting on college teams and holding their own amongst the best in Ulster and beyond. Its just a shame we don't have the same leadership in our county who can get the same performances from those players. Mentality certainly plays its part in all of this but its by no means the only issue." Yeah I know what you mean.
I just don't like when players/managers get lambasted, after all these are the guys who are training multiple nights a week.
When I bemoan competition structures I do it not because I think Antrim would do better, I mention it because I feel the players are forgotten about. Particularly those from weaker counties. I think it's dangerous for the GAA to neglect these players. Intercounty football is tough, it needs to be made worthwhile for players to commit to it.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 01/07/2016 15:25:48
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"Excuses are sad"
Its an easy thing to say when you dont have any.
"just be better" if only it was as simple as that. Its not an excuse to say that other counties dont have the population advantages of Dublin its a fact. Its not an excuse to say that other counties dont have the resources and coaches that Dublin youngsters do which helps to build better players its a fact. Now theyre not the only reasons Dublin are as good as they are, far from it but they are advantages to begin with over others. Thats not an excuse, its a fact.
The thing is its so easy to list off situations in sport where teams fought and suceeded above their level. The reason they come so easily to mind is because they stick out for being so rare and theres a reason for that. Theyre are because they dont last. I see Leicester continually referred to as an a example yet their owners are richer than the owners of Liverpool for example and last season they spent more net than Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs amongst others.
Mentality is important but to be quite honest the GAA set up at the moment is sucking the life out of our sports and will continue to do so until a breaking point is reached. Everyone is training the same, everyone is doing the same things as hard as the other yet getting nothing in return. Something has to give
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 01/07/2016 15:42:42
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Replying To Naysayer: "I did not say that. Yes where I would agree with you is that I would preach to players the importance of mentality for winning games and often would say half the game is mental but with a perfect mentality you will still come up short if you have not got ability to compliment it and no amount of mind coaching will have county teams challenging unless the groundwork is done in other areas and the pool of talent is sufficient." Yes, but all of the instances I mentioned happened in big competitions so it is not as rare as exceptional as you seem to think is all I am saying. All these examples happened recently and over extended periods without the pool the others have.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 01/07/2016 15:49:03
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Replying To superbluedub: "Dublin didn't fluke winning 2011 final, it was won fair and square, typical anti Dublin begrudgery." I think Dublin did fluke the 2011 final it was daylight robbery.
Kerry were coasting to victory and thought they had it won until Kevin Mc had other ideas.
2013 and 2015 were decent wins they never seemed in doubt (despite the closeness of the Mayo final).
By the way am I the only one who read's mentality with an Italian accent because of Trapatoni? :)
It is all he used to say!
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 01/07/2016 16:01:59
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Replying To hill16no1man: "Your wasting your time wayno
As you can see from the first few responses it's the typical modern day irish mentality. We are small it's unfair it's great to see the underdog win bla bla bla." I think you need to re- read the post's above in that case!
Because I read nothing of the sort!
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 01/07/2016 16:04:08
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Replying To eunans4ever: "Sly dig- i watched the jacks play 14 men behind the ball in both league games against us this year in croker..." I thought I got away with it
:)
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 01/07/2016 16:05:49
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "I think Dublin did fluke the 2011 final it was daylight robbery.
Kerry were coasting to victory and thought they had it won until Kevin Mc had other ideas.
2013 and 2015 were decent wins they never seemed in doubt (despite the closeness of the Mayo final).
By the way am I the only one who read's mentality with an Italian accent because of Trapatoni? :)
It is all he used to say!" Says more about your maintality if you think it was a fluke.
If they accepted their fate and lay down and not had the strength of mind and the winning attitude necessary when it looked like all was lost I'm sure it would have sat better with many as what was to be expected and sure didn't they give it a good go.
Typical of the sort of rubbish that leads to the inevitable we came up just short mindset.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 01/07/2016 16:36:51
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Mental approach is important both as a player and collectively as a group ,however the topic says "the main thing that needs to change" ? cant agree at all ,
For starters while fans maybe a bit defeatist ,I've rarely seen that from players , county players all counties tend to be elite players for a reason and their mental strength would be what has elevated themselves above their fellow county players .
There is a lot that needs to change in the GAA and Leinster a perfect example but a let them eat cake attitude is certainly not helpful , people on the ground know why its all going wrong.
Ive had many a heated discussion on here as to why Dublin are successful , for starters never given enough credit for the talent that's within the squad , the genius of J Gavin , or the total freak that is S Cluxton , people behind the scene like Billings and Kettle but in all that time Ive also played fair and accepted we are a bit privileged in the capitol , the distances our players have to travel , the brand of Dublin is working wonders and paying dividends , it is not a fair comparison Dublin with many counties, just as its not a fair comparison with a Mayo and a Sligo , in pointing it out our country cousins are pointing out the obvious and I see no issue in putting our hands up and agreeing , equaly a bit of honesty from some rivals wouldn't go amiss either , Im of the belief the advantages constantly wheeled our are a front for the truth for many and that truth is they just don't like us end of , a good friend of mine from Cork left me in no uncertain terms as to how they feel about us , the sight of Cluxton lifting Sam turns many not all but a sizeable amount of our county cousins sick ,
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 01/07/2016 16:43:41
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Replying To Damothedub: "Mental approach is important both as a player and collectively as a group ,however the topic says "the main thing that needs to change" ? cant agree at all ,
For starters while fans maybe a bit defeatist ,I've rarely seen that from players , county players all counties tend to be elite players for a reason and their mental strength would be what has elevated themselves above their fellow county players .
There is a lot that needs to change in the GAA and Leinster a perfect example but a let them eat cake attitude is certainly not helpful , people on the ground know why its all going wrong.
Ive had many a heated discussion on here as to why Dublin are successful , for starters never given enough credit for the talent that's within the squad , the genius of J Gavin , or the total freak that is S Cluxton , people behind the scene like Billings and Kettle but in all that time Ive also played fair and accepted we are a bit privileged in the capitol , the distances our players have to travel , the brand of Dublin is working wonders and paying dividends , it is not a fair comparison Dublin with many counties, just as its not a fair comparison with a Mayo and a Sligo , in pointing it out our country cousins are pointing out the obvious and I see no issue in putting our hands up and agreeing , equaly a bit of honesty from some rivals wouldn't go amiss either , Im of the belief the advantages constantly wheeled our are a front for the truth for many and that truth is they just don't like us end of , a good friend of mine from Cork left me in no uncertain terms as to how they feel about us , the sight of Cluxton lifting Sam turns many not all but a sizeable amount of our county cousins sick ," I for one can only enjoy watching this Dublin Team. Seeing them succeed is something I enjoy also as they seem very true to each other, and very true to the game.
You will always get the people who will say the world is against them, point at other peoples advantages and will not be willing to pull themselves up in any way - but as you've pointed out, the players representing their Counties are elite and virtually professional and any such weakness would probably break them and they wouldn't be involved.
I think the biggest issue in the GAA at the moment is competition structure. It doesn't support the effort and investment by players and County boards. Its the summer time, we should have loads of good competitive games every weekend and if we did, people would be talking about something different. But the majority are bored, bored and underwhelmed.
Up the Dubs, looking forward to some swanky moves against us in the Final. I hope we go out and are positive and give a good account of ourselves. If we go out to park I'll be disgusted!
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 01/07/2016 17:30:44
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it is not a fair comparison Dublin with many counties
What do you mean most counties? Nobody has anywhere near the same population or resources as Dublin, thats not jealousy it's the truth.
Assuming every count carries out similar processes in terms of how it develops the game from underage to senior, there is no realistic outcome other than Dublin domination in the long run.
The only way there would be an even spread at the top would be if the administrators at the top of Dublin GAA were incompetent but I think we all know that is clearly not the case.
Referring the likes of Leicester is missing the point, that was a total anomaly - look at the Spanish, German, Italian,Scottish & French leagues all have been dominated by 1 (2 in Spain's case) over the last 6/7 years they are essentially foregone conclusions before a ball is kicked.
What they have in common is the team with the most resources by a huge matrgin winning every year, the Premier League was the same in the 90's with Man Utd running away it nearly every year until Chelsea and Man City came in with huge money and made it more even. In the last couple of years the TV money has been distributed more fairly giving more teams a chance to compete.
The only difference with Gaelic Football is the main competition is run on a knock-out which is more perilous for the dominating team given that one off day can cost you the whole year (Donegal 2014) In the long run it will mostly be dominance with the odd shock every few years. The fact that Dublin have won the league 4 years in a row is a better barometer of their actual dominance as that requires more consistency than winning the odd All Ireland does.
KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 01/07/2016 18:00:22
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Replying To Ban: "I for one can only enjoy watching this Dublin Team. Seeing them succeed is something I enjoy also as they seem very true to each other, and very true to the game.
You will always get the people who will say the world is against them, point at other peoples advantages and will not be willing to pull themselves up in any way - but as you've pointed out, the players representing their Counties are elite and virtually professional and any such weakness would probably break them and they wouldn't be involved.
I think the biggest issue in the GAA at the moment is competition structure. It doesn't support the effort and investment by players and County boards. Its the summer time, we should have loads of good competitive games every weekend and if we did, people would be talking about something different. But the majority are bored, bored and underwhelmed.
Up the Dubs, looking forward to some swanky moves against us in the Final. I hope we go out and are positive and give a good account of ourselves. If we go out to park I'll be disgusted!" Ban , would you consider yourself in the minority or majority in your county regarding watching Dublin .
Equally not sure of your age but if you could go back over last 10 -20 years why were Westmeath beaten back in the day (apart from one glorious day ), was it for same reasons being wheeled out today or was there something else back then.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 01/07/2016 19:14:06
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Looks like another anomaly ( as it's been referred to ) has just occurred with Wales going through against the 2nd ranked team in the world that play Portugal another relatively small country in the semi final. Wonder how that happened.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 01/07/2016 21:51:15
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "Looks like another anomaly ( as it's been referred to ) has just occurred with Wales going through against the 2nd ranked team in the world that play Portugal another relatively small country in the semi final. Wonder how that happened." not sure u noticed but wales have a decent few quality players
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 01/07/2016 22:05:23
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Replying To alano12: "not sure u noticed but wales have a decent few quality players" Yeah a defence packed with Premier League experience, a midfield packed with European experience, one of the top 3 players in the world who can almost win games on his own, experience of playing together for 4yrs + with a settled system, inspirational captain. Don't know about you guys but Wales progress in this tournament has not surprised me in the slightest. And to even add the bit about other teams being poor I challenge anyone to say Belgium were not a shambles at the back robbed of many key players in that area. But sure the main reason Wales are doing well is their mentality. Of course their mentality is top class but their is a little more to it than that.
Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 02/07/2016 08:47:09
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "I think Dublin did fluke the 2011 final it was daylight robbery.
Kerry were coasting to victory and thought they had it won until Kevin Mc had other ideas.
2013 and 2015 were decent wins they never seemed in doubt (despite the closeness of the Mayo final).
By the way am I the only one who read's mentality with an Italian accent because of Trapatoni? :)
It is all he used to say!" there was nothing flukey about dublins 2011 all Ireland win.dublin played to the final whistle,made there own chances with turnovers and took there scores.
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 02/07/2016 09:54:55
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Yes they have a decent few players like most of the teams they have beaten.Not superstars but committed hard working and play as a team with a plan.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 02/07/2016 10:07:40
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As for the sarcastic suggestion that it's on!y because of their mentality I'll repeat for the 3rd time that I am not suggesting it's purely mentality but it is far more important than the other excuse trotted out regularly.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 02/07/2016 10:22:28
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "Looks like another anomaly ( as it's been referred to ) has just occurred with Wales going through against the 2nd ranked team in the world that play Portugal another relatively small country in the semi final. Wonder how that happened." Firstly Wales winning wasn't even a surprise they have 2 of the best players in the world and Belgium have never gelled as a team properly - that was a 50/50 game going in to it.
Secondly, soccer is a much more lower scoring game which gives underdogs a far better chance in a one-off game than in Gaelic Football as they can get lucky and score early and the other team might miss a load of chances on the night and win 1-0. This won't work in the long run and isn't possible at all in Football. Even the miserabile visu of big games in 2011 with Dublin and Donegal had 14 scores!
Finally, all the teams at the Euros are all professional there is relatively speaking very little or no gap in physical or tactical preparation between the Frances and Germanys from the Wales and Irelands. There is no knowledge gap between the top sides and bottom sides again this isn't the case sadly in the GAA
KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 02/07/2016 10:23:12
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This thread is really about suggesting the reason Dublin are dominant right now is because they have a top mentality while others do not have the same mentality and instead are trying to roll out sad excuses for not being at that level. If they would stop crying and get their mentality sorted then they would stand an equal chance of success. Self indulgent bullshit if you ask me .
A debate about mentality would have everyone agreeing that to be winners you need a strong mentality. In fact one of the things Dublin have addressed in recent years is their mentality. It helped getting the monkey off their back lifting their first All Ireland in years and I always felt that when they got one they would start adding more rapidly. If anything they had been massively under achieving for too long.
If the absence of a correct mentality is what is causing you to under achieve then addressing that will cure your problem but if you have not got the correct structures, lack talent, lack funding etc then addressing your mentality, while helpful, is unlikely to see you lift an All Ireland in September.
Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 02/07/2016 11:30:15
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Replying To KYTitletown: "Firstly Wales winning wasn't even a surprise they have 2 of the best players in the world and Belgium have never gelled as a team properly - that was a 50/50 game going in to it.
Secondly, soccer is a much more lower scoring game which gives underdogs a far better chance in a one-off game than in Gaelic Football as they can get lucky and score early and the other team might miss a load of chances on the night and win 1-0. This won't work in the long run and isn't possible at all in Football. Even the miserabile visu of big games in 2011 with Dublin and Donegal had 14 scores!
Finally, all the teams at the Euros are all professional there is relatively speaking very little or no gap in physical or tactical preparation between the Frances and Germanys from the Wales and Irelands. There is no knowledge gap between the top sides and bottom sides again this isn't the case sadly in the GAA" Your missing the point it doesn't matter what the sport is there are always better resources and more money imbalances in all of them practically.You can very often after a few minutes though where these teams heads are and inevitably if they are not right they will loose.French are a prime example in Rugby and Soccer.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 02/07/2016 11:43:52
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