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Monaghan v Down

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I can understand why some would focus more on the Down side of things, but from a Monaghan perspective that was encouraging today. You can't really read much into it given Down's second half performance, but when the game was in the balance at the start of the second half, it was good to see that we could up the pace and build up a lead that we weren't going to relinquish. First half was a bit strange. We were very poor for the most part and Down should have been the team going in a few points up. Instead we did thanks to some poor Down shooting and a couple of soft enough frees. But clearly they got a kick up the arse at HT(which McManus alluded to afterwards), and came flying out of the blocks for the third quarter which put the game to bed. Were noticeably improved in defence and also in the speed of our counter attacks. But we really have to address that problem of starting slowly which has often been a problem, and we'll be punished down the line if it continues. Encouraging to see a good spread of scorers. Alot of talk has rightly been of the need to take the pressure off McManus, and despite him being quiet by his standards(looks to still be carrying a knock from a recent club game) we didn't suffer. All starting forwards scored from play and there was a good contribution off the bench too. As I say, hard to take too much away from a game like that, but it's job done and onto the next game. patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 05/06/2016 19:29:36 1861909 Link
Take Monaghan out of Clones! :D ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 05/06/2016 19:51:58 1861923 Link
Replying To Daith: "Malachy ORourke is probably the best manager in the country at the moment. Down were awful but he really has that team firing on all cylinders. I don't think they would be too far off any of the top teams at the moment." Malachy O'Rourke has never won a big game in Croke park in charge of Monaghan. Winning a couple of provincial titles especially in Ulster is a fine achievment, But until his side get the Croke Park hoodoo off their back possibly get to a semi final or all ireland final, Then he cant even be in the same conversation as Jim Gavin and Eamonn Fitzmaurice in terms of the lands best manager at the moment.. Monaghan are a very good side, But they untimately wont trouble Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. Their over-reliance on Conor McManus being the main reason for that. The other 4 sides i mentioned will have too much for them outside of Ulster. waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 05/06/2016 19:59:10 1861924 Link
I think Monaghan were good defensively the whole game. Second half things clicked. Hughes in full forward looked good. If they're to have a shot at beating Dublin they need another serious threat in addition to McManus. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 05/06/2016 20:08:58 1861931 Link
Replying To waynoI: "Malachy O'Rourke has never won a big game in Croke park in charge of Monaghan. Winning a couple of provincial titles especially in Ulster is a fine achievment, But until his side get the Croke Park hoodoo off their back possibly get to a semi final or all ireland final, Then he cant even be in the same conversation as Jim Gavin and Eamonn Fitzmaurice in terms of the lands best manager at the moment.. Monaghan are a very good side, But they untimately wont trouble Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. Their over-reliance on Conor McManus being the main reason for that. The other 4 sides i mentioned will have too much for them outside of Ulster." With all due respects Wayne that is b****t. When Malachy O Rourke took over Monaghan they were in Division 3 having endured two successive relegations. They are now an established Division 1 side. They have won 2 Ulster titles having beaten the defending All Ireland champions in 2013. Jim Gavin and Eamon Fitzmaurice both inherited All Ireland winning squads . Would they as managers have achieved with Monaghan what Malachy O Rourke has ? Greengrass (Louth)** - Posts: 6031 - 05/06/2016 20:29:59 1861951 Link
I agree with waynoI . No Down player went out today to have a bad game. I just think the team is lacking in experience and missing some quality players. This is probably the best team Monaghan has ever produced and they look superb. Good luck to them. Still, I'll still be cheering Fermanagh for Ulster! Oooh, ah, Pete McGrath. peter_venkman (Down) - Posts: 320 - 05/06/2016 20:31:21 1861953 Link
Felt sad for the players today.The first half display had actually been very positive.Probably should have went in at three points up instead of three points down. The second half was a complete non event. With too many debutants in the Down team they did not know how to respond when Monaghan upped the ante. But they dont deserve to be criticised as they are the ones who actually want to play for Down and put the hard yards. They are having to be thrown in at the deep end as a lot of our best players have opted out. It is not their fault. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 05/06/2016 20:34:10 1861956 Link
Congratulations to Monaghan and best wishes for the rest of the Ulster and All Ireland Championship.Your fans are a credit to the GAA. Chatted to a few Monaghan fans around me and youse are very good, knowledgable fans.All the best. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 05/06/2016 20:48:24 1861963 Link
TBh greengrass both Dublin and Kerry improved massively once Fitz and Gavin took them over. Im a fan of O Rourke and think hes one of the most under rated manages int he country (probably the most under rated for that matter) but last years quasi capitulation to Tyrone in the quarter final was a bit of a hammer blow. Three 1/4 finals in a row without winning one (getting brutalised in 2014) means I think hes under pressure this year. joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 05/06/2016 20:48:27 1861964 Link
Replying To waynoI: "Malachy O'Rourke has never won a big game in Croke park in charge of Monaghan. Winning a couple of provincial titles especially in Ulster is a fine achievment, But until his side get the Croke Park hoodoo off their back possibly get to a semi final or all ireland final, Then he cant even be in the same conversation as Jim Gavin and Eamonn Fitzmaurice in terms of the lands best manager at the moment.. Monaghan are a very good side, But they untimately wont trouble Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. Their over-reliance on Conor McManus being the main reason for that. The other 4 sides i mentioned will have too much for them outside of Ulster." I'm amazed that people are still lumping in Tyrone with the other three teams there in terms of All-Ireland contenders. To me, there's a very clear top three and then a gap to the rest. Tyrone may well be top of that group but they've beaten nobody this year yet to suggest they're up with those other teams. I've said before that they're rightly favourites for Ulster, but if they reach the final, whoever they meet will more than likely have played much better opposition all year (Sorry Fermanagh but I'm predicting a Donegal win there). I may be proven wrong but I don't see what they've done to warrant being talked up like the other three teams at this stage. The fact that we need more of a scoring threat is a valid criticism, and it's something we need to work on. Encouraging signs at times today from the likes of McCarthy and McKenna when introduced, but it's in the games to come that we'll see if these players are ready to offer a big contribution. Kieran Hughes was in good scoring form today but he needs to be more consistent. patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 05/06/2016 20:52:02 1861970 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "With all due respects Wayne that is b****t. When Malachy O Rourke took over Monaghan they were in Division 3 having endured two successive relegations. They are now an established Division 1 side. They have won 2 Ulster titles having beaten the defending All Ireland champions in 2013. Jim Gavin and Eamon Fitzmaurice both inherited All Ireland winning squads . Would they as managers have achieved with Monaghan what Malachy O Rourke has ?" I respect your opinion, but i can't agree sorry. I'm not suggesting that Malachy O'Rourke is a bad manager. As you rightly say he took over a team in division 3 and led them to two promotions in a row and won two Ulster titles and as i mentioned in my previous post, Fair dues. Credit where its due. My opinion however is that the best managers are managers who win big games and with the greatest of respect of them, Monaghan have failed when it comes to big games in Croke Park playing against the best teams. Without meaning to sound like im belittling their achievements getting promoted twice on the bounce, But getting out of D3 playing the likes of Sligo, Wicklow, Antrim, Cavan.... Or D2 playing Louth, Laois, Down and Armagh (when alot of teams still dont take the league very seriously) is totally different to playing Tyrone, Dublin etc in Croke Park in the countrys premier football competition. So Until O'Rourke/Monaghan prove that they can not only compete, but BEAT the best sides in the country in Croke Park, then you cant label him the best manager in the country. A good manager ? No doubt... The best in the country ? Well.... thats just a bit mad. And i stand by my previous comment, They might compete, but ultimately, wont beat a Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc in Croke Park in the all ireland series unless they can sort out their over-reliance on CmcM. As good as he is (And he is, As Joe Brolly said, the perfect forward), He simply wont beat the big teams in the wide open spaces of Croke Park when its straight knock out, on his own. He just wont. And as for the question about Jim Gavin and Eamonn Fitzmaurice. Would they replicate what O'Rourke has achieved if they where the manager of Monaghan, thats impossible to answer. Its hypothetical. waynoI (Dublin)** - Posts: 13650 - 05/06/2016 21:07:40 1861977 Link
Well done to the lads today. finished Down off with ruthless efficiency. Great attitude shown throughout. no cynical stuff to be seen from either teams, a few "footballing incidents" but the game was played in a sporting manner throughout (up and at it). Ref was just OK, Down might argue that he was harder on them, gave us a couple soft enough frees in the first half (K Hughes's especially) and could/should have given us a black card. However he made no difference to the result. when the game was there to be won we had too much, and then rather sadly Down threw in the towel. Was good to see the younger lads making an impact at last and there was no over reliance on McManus today, bodes well for the rest of the championship and the "sheep in a heap" can say what they like, we certainly should have no fear of anyone left in Ulster, we are after all still the champions at senior and U21 level mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 05/06/2016 21:57:26 1862005 Link
Quick restructure everything... Blah blah etc etc jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 05/06/2016 22:41:25 1862010 Link
Leave Malachy alone. He is doing a fine job for Monaghan with a more limited squad than Gavin or Fitzmaurice. Would he have as much success, or indeed more, as the other two, if he had the same talent avail to him? We don't know as it too is a hypothetical question. neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 05/06/2016 23:12:38 1862018 Link
Wow. Some Monaghan performance. Ulster not quite the minefield this year so far with some very one sided games so far just like the other provinces. Hopefully the semi finals will be competitive for the sake of the championship. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13709 - 05/06/2016 23:51:51 1862025 Link
In the first half there was actually evidence of what Eamonn Burns has been working on. The team were looking good in defence and were attacking well, building up their attacks. There was quite a strong breeze and in the second half Down were under severe pressure from their own kickouts. In the first half Down were coping with Monaghan's sporadic attacks well. In the second half Down were winning almost zero primary possession. Faced with incessant Monaghan attacks you could visibly see the Down players panic.The debutants had no real leaders to encourage them. Only Poland, McKernan and a few others have real experience. There was oceans of space for Monaghan. When Down did get the ball they coughed it up easily. The exertions of the first half then told on Down. Ross Carr said last year that "personal agendas and the vindictive nature of the club scene are crippling Down football " I agree wholeheartedly with this. We need to regroup and try to win a couple of games in the qualifiers. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 06/06/2016 09:29:27 1862050 Link
Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "In the first half there was actually evidence of what Eamonn Burns has been working on. The team were looking good in defence and were attacking well, building up their attacks. There was quite a strong breeze and in the second half Down were under severe pressure from their own kickouts. In the first half Down were coping with Monaghan's sporadic attacks well. In the second half Down were winning almost zero primary possession. Faced with incessant Monaghan attacks you could visibly see the Down players panic.The debutants had no real leaders to encourage them. Only Poland, McKernan and a few others have real experience. There was oceans of space for Monaghan. When Down did get the ball they coughed it up easily. The exertions of the first half then told on Down. Ross Carr said last year that "personal agendas and the vindictive nature of the club scene are crippling Down football " I agree wholeheartedly with this. We need to regroup and try to win a couple of games in the qualifiers." While I don't disagree that personal agendas and the vindicative nature of the club scene are cribbling Down football, I do believe the problem is a little more complex than just this. Radical change is needed from top to bottom. The current structures q MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 06/06/2016 10:11:05 1862058 Link
Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "In the first half there was actually evidence of what Eamonn Burns has been working on. The team were looking good in defence and were attacking well, building up their attacks. There was quite a strong breeze and in the second half Down were under severe pressure from their own kickouts. In the first half Down were coping with Monaghan's sporadic attacks well. In the second half Down were winning almost zero primary possession. Faced with incessant Monaghan attacks you could visibly see the Down players panic.The debutants had no real leaders to encourage them. Only Poland, McKernan and a few others have real experience. There was oceans of space for Monaghan. When Down did get the ball they coughed it up easily. The exertions of the first half then told on Down. Ross Carr said last year that "personal agendas and the vindictive nature of the club scene are crippling Down football " I agree wholeheartedly with this. We need to regroup and try to win a couple of games in the qualifiers." Malachy O'Rourke has never won a big game in Croke park in charge of Monaghan. Winning a couple of provincial titles especially in Ulster is a fine achievment, But until his side get the Croke Park hoodoo off their back possibly get to a semi final or all ireland final, Then he cant even be in the same conversation as Jim Gavin and Eamonn Fitzmaurice in terms of the lands best manager at the moment.. Have to agree with Wayno here, a poignant statement there above. Monaghan do really well in UIster but lack the Croke Park confidence and swagger of the top rank teams such as Tyrone and Dublin. Monaghan are a cut above the poor counties but are somewhat found wanting when its do or die in front of the whole country. Tyrone love facing Monaghan in Croke Park. cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 06/06/2016 10:16:47 1862061 Link
Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "In the first half there was actually evidence of what Eamonn Burns has been working on. The team were looking good in defence and were attacking well, building up their attacks. There was quite a strong breeze and in the second half Down were under severe pressure from their own kickouts. In the first half Down were coping with Monaghan's sporadic attacks well. In the second half Down were winning almost zero primary possession. Faced with incessant Monaghan attacks you could visibly see the Down players panic.The debutants had no real leaders to encourage them. Only Poland, McKernan and a few others have real experience. There was oceans of space for Monaghan. When Down did get the ball they coughed it up easily. The exertions of the first half then told on Down. Ross Carr said last year that "personal agendas and the vindictive nature of the club scene are crippling Down football " I agree wholeheartedly with this. We need to regroup and try to win a couple of games in the qualifiers." While I don't disagree that personal agendas and the vindicative nature of the club scene are cribbling Down football, I do believe the problem is a little more complex than just this. Radical change is needed from top to bottom. The current structures within the county quite simply are not working. Down's last ten championship fixtures across senior, under 21 and minor levels have resulted in nine defeats and one draw. Evidence that the problem is more deep rooted than what Ross Carr has said. However, I would be more concerned with yesterday's result if the starting team yesterday were the best club players in the county. But, they are not. And everyone in Down knows they are not. In fact, I would go as far as saying 4 or 5 of yesterday's starting team are not even near county standard. But, Burns can only play the cards he has been dealt and many of them are the best players available to him. If we did have access to all of our club players, then we would in fact have a very decent county team. So, despite these deep rooted issues, Down will always produce quality footballers. It can not be emphasised enough. Yesterday's result was effected massively by Down's inexperience and that many of this squad are not county standard, nor would they be near the county set-up if we had access to our ex-county players who are flying at club level. That is the brutal reality of the situation. MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 06/06/2016 10:21:50 1862063 Link
Replying To MourneArmy: "While I don't disagree that personal agendas and the vindicative nature of the club scene are cribbling Down football, I do believe the problem is a little more complex than just this. Radical change is needed from top to bottom. The current structures within the county quite simply are not working. Down's last ten championship fixtures across senior, under 21 and minor levels have resulted in nine defeats and one draw. Evidence that the problem is more deep rooted than what Ross Carr has said. However, I would be more concerned with yesterday's result if the starting team yesterday were the best club players in the county. But, they are not. And everyone in Down knows they are not. In fact, I would go as far as saying 4 or 5 of yesterday's starting team are not even near county standard. But, Burns can only play the cards he has been dealt and many of them are the best players available to him. If we did have access to all of our club players, then we would in fact have a very decent county team. So, despite these deep rooted issues, Down will always produce quality footballers. It can not be emphasised enough. Yesterday's result was effected massively by Down's inexperience and that many of this squad are not county standard, nor would they be near the county set-up if we had access to our ex-county players who are flying at club level. That is the brutal reality of the situation." Mourne Army if our best players are continually opting out how are we going to compete going forward??? I totally agree that there Down always produce quality players but the turnover of players is incredible. Like Seamus McEnaney said on The Marty Squad that the number of debutants in the Down team yesterday would be something you would see from New York or London in the Championship. It was sad to see the demoralised Down players yesterday. Defeat is part of the game but that was humbling yesterday. Previously even when we lost Ulster Championship games it was only by a few points usually. We were competitive. I was on the Down Supporters club bus and the Down team bus was in front of us on the way home. They could not get out of Clones quick enough.Sad. REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 06/06/2016 10:50:43 1862076 Link