kILLARENY I am a Monaghan man living in Armagh . Middletown,Keady & Cuhullainns are very strong with Middleton being narrowly defeated by Antrim champions who are in All-Ireland club final . Croke Park are always taking about promiting hurling in weaker counties but never talk about Cavan,Louth ,Leitrim,Sligo,Monaghan etc.In Monaghan were there is 6 clubs there isnt even development squads and Croke park doesnt even ask questions and Pariac Duffy from the county. Its very discouraging for all those at club level to keep going .

gil (Armagh) - Posts: 4 - 15/02/2016 16:38:30    1825575

Killarney.87 I understand your point about COM against Galway coming off the bench but Conor is actually a natural forward. Played all his life there between midfield and 10-15 positions.
However yes the difference between club and county is there for all to see Conor would not have been part of a forwards tactic it was more of a panic decision by management.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 15/02/2016 17:16:11    1825594

A Kerry hurler scored a fine point for Dublin at the weekend.

I take someone's point about Kerry being a success of the lower tiered system but Kerry have made this progress before under different systems. In 2011 Kerry competed in the Division 2 of 8 teams. The change that saw them put them into the third tier of 6 was a set back.

When Kerry won the Ring in 2011 the Munster Championship was a step too far. It would have been appropriate at the time to have allowed the Ring winners into the qualifiers to gauge if they were ready for the step up.

It's taken the GAA a while but in fairness the qualifier group is a good intermediary step.

If the league returned to 2 top divisions of 8, by and large it would consist of the 14 McCarthy Cup counties and 2 of the stronger Ring counties. What ruined it before was only one county being promoted. It should be 2 up and down as in the football. Antrim, Carlow and Westmeath should be competing in a Division 2 of 8.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 15/02/2016 18:00:03    1825609

Midleton must be good if they were pushing Cushendall all the way. I know one of my friends watched Armagh a couple of times in the league last year and was impressed with what he saw. Did last year's manager leave after a dispute with the county board or did I imagine that? Its great to see such an interest in hurling across the country. The problem is Croke Park and the GAA seems to be football dominated at the expense of hurling.

Do you remember when Joe Hayes played from Monaghan in the late nineties? It must have been some craic when he was there.

Wild Pundit good call about O'Mahony being a club forward, I forgot about that but I guess my point was be we were bringing on recognised backs as subs into defensive positions when chasing the game as opposed to bringing on forwards for forwards.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/02/2016 18:26:33    1825614

Kerry hurlers - Proof that tiers work
So many football county squads feel that a tiered system would sound the death knell for inter-county Gaelic football. It would also be day when all counties play against teams of similar ability and are given the chance to make incremental progress.
'No way! We don't want that!' shout the footballers of Wicklow, Leitrim and Waterford et al.
''We want train 5/6 nights a week for 9 months with a constant voice in the back of our heads whispering 'What's the point?' or 'You're out of our depth' knowing our fate but choosing to ignore it. We want to play Kerry or Dublin or Mayo once a year and play 15 men behind the ball and hope we don't get a hiding and do it all again next year.''
This is what the county footballers of 16-20 counties are telling us and worse still, they almost believe it themselves.
The key word in the first paragraph is progress because there is no such thing at football championship level for these players right now. The current championship is built to mirror the Irish economy; it's a boom/bust system. Everyone is happy for a while. The league goes well with promotion gained. Great. Progress. There is some hope.
That is until the inevitable 1st round walloping. Then we hear the cries that football in the county is dead, the team are useless in championship and a high profile manager is needed. None of these are necessarily true of course but nobody wants to hear it.
In 2005 Sean Kelly began the democratization of hurling. He didn't really do anything revolutionary but instead used 'rare' sense. It was under his watch that tiered systems came into operation in hurling and the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cups were born. These tiers gave counties a chance to compete in championship at their own level and many have embraced them because they gained a chance to progress. They now know exactly where they stand and this allows them to look themselves in the eye and plan ahead. Each county can make attainable goals each season because they are tested against similar standard opponents. If they pass those tests then they are given more difficult assignments by moving up a tier. It makes sense.
Kerry hurlers are one of the teams who have benefitted. They had steadily improved by investing in underage and targeting a Christy Ring Cup success, which they secured last year. Yesterday they toppled Laois and will fancy taking at least one more scalp in Division 1B.
If Kerry had been told in 2005 that their only option was to enter the Munster Hurling Championship and take an annual hiding where would Kerry's hurling team be now?

SmellyBadger (Limerick) - Posts:21 - 15/02/2016 14:52:37 1825535


Tiers work for hurling it was a great initiative.

Hurling is different than football though and should be treated differently.

Fermanagh were in division 4 in 2012. In the 2011 championship they lost by 6 points to London. 3 years later they have made an All-Ireland quarter final and are in division 2 in the league. There isn't a need for a tiered system in football for teams to progress.

The hidings are only really being given out consistently by Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. Those teams are still capable of giving out those hidings in provincial championship finals and All Ireland quarter-finals. If you want to stop teams getting hidings you'd probably need to limit the championship to maybe 6 to 8 teams.

Last season in addition to Fermanagh you had Westmeath reach a Leinster final and Sligo reach the Connacht final beating a division 1 team en route. This is relative success for these counties why would you want them denied of that?

The tiered system worked in hurling as it brought more counties into the fold, it was an inclusive step. I feel tiering a football championship would be casting teams out and reduces their ability to progress in future.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4238 - 15/02/2016 18:42:39    1825618

What ruined it before was only one county being promoted. It should be 2 up and down as in the football.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:4576 - 15/02/2016 18:00:03

I'll second that. I thought the groups of 8 was a good mix of competitive games with opportunities to experiment and develop aswell. The main fault was the 1-up-1-down, I remember both ourselves and Clare losing out a few years in a row and it began to feel like a prison sentence because of it, plus I felt it was detrimental to the morale of teams just behind us like Antrim or Carlow, as they knew they're chances of promotion were almost non-existent, at least with two-up you knew 1 big win and you had a shot.
Although with 8, we'd probably end up in the 2nd division, I'd still think it's a better system.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 15/02/2016 18:46:36    1825622

Anything that stops the top 8 'traditional' hurling counties possibly being in the top division will be shot down

the LAST thing they want is a Westmeath, Laois, Antrim, Kerry or Carlow coming through to threaten their status

Look at how quickly they changed the Christy Ring finals away from the undercard of Semi finals of the Liam McCarthy because the 'minors' from these counties weren't getting their big day in Croker.

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 15/02/2016 20:16:55    1825639

Valley84 I see your frustration but as far as I'm concerned the more top hurling sides the better.

The GAA have pumped money into Westmeath, Laois, Carlow and Antrim hurling.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/02/2016 20:56:08    1825645

It's up to the counties really. They have a say in the formation of the league. It was great that Cork weren't allowed to getaway with a restructure in their favour.

There was a view for a while that Division 2 wasn't competitive enough for teams going down. As mentioned, the 1 up and 1 down made teams feel imprisoned in the old Division 2.

Antrim, Carlow and Westmeath should be leading the calls for change. I'd imagine most 1B counties would support 2 divisions of 8 with 2 up and down.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 15/02/2016 21:18:35    1825649

valley84

Anything that stops the top 8 'traditional' hurling counties possibly being in the top division will be shot down

The top division is actually only 6 teams, so apparently that's not the case.

the LAST thing they want is a Westmeath, Laois, Antrim, Kerry or Carlow coming through to threaten their status
Look at how quickly they changed the Christy Ring finals away from the undercard of Semi finals of the Liam McCarthy because the 'minors' from these counties weren't getting their big day in Croker.

Agreed, Ring and Rackard finals should never have been moved from their original dates before semi's. But do you really think that was to spite Westmeath, Laois, Antrim, Kerry or Carlow? Surely if these teams were coming through to threaten the 'traditional' counties, their minors would also be competing in AI semi's, no? I think the lack of automatic promotion between league tiers, and championship tiers, has more of a detrimental effect on the progress of developing teams. But the benefit of that is not to the 'traditional' 8.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 15/02/2016 21:29:15    1825650

Great to see HS hurling team of the week does not include one Kilkenny Player.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 15/02/2016 21:44:00    1825653

Doubt you will be able to say that come August and September.

clonjon (Dublin) - Posts: 665 - 16/02/2016 13:02:05    1825739

Watch this space!!!

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 16/02/2016 17:01:11    1825865

The lower tier championships being played off early isn't entirely a bad thing. In surveys with the players of those counties, the recommendation has been to extend the timescale by a couple of weeks.

There is benefit in having the best summer months free for club hurling championships if lower tier counties use the time wisely.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 16/02/2016 17:33:07    1825877

Kilarney 87
What money has been pumped into Antrim hurling?

In fact what money has been pumped into Ulster hurling?????

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 16/02/2016 18:04:40    1825893

Killarney I was involved with the Monaghan team when Joe Hayes was invovled and to be fair on the man he brought a touch of profesionalism to the set up and made sure the players were cared and got the results and was badly treated by the county board in the end.I believe it is better to have County games at start of the year and leave the end of the summer for club matches.

gil (Armagh) - Posts: 4 - 16/02/2016 19:07:43    1825916

Kilarney 87
What money has been pumped into Antrim hurling?

In fact what money has been pumped into Ulster hurling?????

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 16/02/2016 21:25:56    1825970

"There is benefit in having the best summer months free for club hurling championships if lower tier counties use the time wisely."

Exactly.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/02/2016 21:46:57    1825981

There you go Cuchulainn:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/gaa-chiefs-target-top-12-with-hurling-funding-30038561.html

And this was advertised a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/TheGAA/Administration/12/23/75/GAANationalHurlingDevelopmentManager_English.pdf

Hurling needs a strong Antrim inter-county team. They can't be left behind just because they are geographically cut off from the other hurling counties. I think the funding plan is realistic because if you strengthen hurling in Carlow, Laois and Westmeath further you are gradually widening the hurling area and joining up the dots like between Galway and Dublin with Westmeath. Then you work down the coast with Down who always had a hurling culture, take in Louth too who have excellent facilities in Darver and Meath where there has always been an interest in the Trim area. Its a slow tedious process but one worth doing especially if the GAA are happy to market hurling in the US.

Any genuine hurling fan from the 'big' counties want to see hurling played more widely across the 32 counties and not in 10 or 12 counties.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 17/02/2016 10:37:37    1826021

Killarney.87 - in the article it breaks down the amount of money which is being made available to each County, subject to meeting application requirements. I suppose it all depends on how a person defines "pumping money" in to something but a max amount of £37,000 per annum for each of the Counties you mentioned over a 5 year period isn't exactly pumping in my definition of the word. I would call £1m a year for a County as pumping, not 3.7% of that. In fact I would say £37k when compared to other levels of funding made available to Counties is nothing more than lip-service. As for how much of this £37k each year we have asked for or received I have no idea.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/02/2016 11:45:40    1826043