Pope,i had a look at the 2001 final last night,and i do believe Galway were the better side.Tipp had 3 defenders who didnt puck 2 balls between them-2 corner backs,Ormonde and Costelloe,and centre back Kennedy.How Tipp won is beyond me.Galway had 11 1st half wides,with 7/8 of them in great scoring positions.Broderick was best player on field.To award Tipp a free out in 2nd half when he was racing through,was harsh,but i think Philly Maher heard the whistle and stopped playing.I dont bthink Broderick would have scored a goal otherwise,although possibly a point.Overall,the referee did seem to favour Tipp,so i guess if i was from Galway i would be sore about that game.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/07/2015 10:50:05    1749704

Doylerwex
County: Wexford
Posts: 1325

1749589 I shouldn't even be getting into this nonsense but your lack of hurling knowledge shows. We actually haven't been beaten in our last 3 championship games.Can you lay off Wexford? We've had a poor year alright but 13,14 have shown me enough to have huge hopes for our future.In the last 20 years we've won one all-ireland,3 leinsters and contested 8 all-Ireland semi finals and beaten every county ranked ahead of us bar Cork. I don't think that's too bad. Also if not for such a poor start on Saturday it's a game we could well have won. Anyway, we're still better than louth in both codes and we don't even take football seriously

How about this Doyler. Since 2005 (10 seaesons ago) Wexford have made no All Ireland finals. They have made one All Ireland semi final since 2005. Since 2009 Wexford have made one All Ireland quarter final. Since 2005 they have taken at least one double digit championship defeat per championship season. Wexford haven't made a Leinster final since 2008. Apologies and I stand corrected Wexford have not lost their last three championship matches . They managed a championship win this season ...........against Westmeath. Their last three championship defeats against Limerick, Kilkenny and Cork have been by a cumulative total of 56 points which averages out at just over 18 points a game. Their game against Cork last Saturday at home in Wexford was over at half time. I take no pleasure in highlighting this Doyler but it is just one example of a traditional hurling county that is now completely out of it's depth when it comes to competing at the highest level. Offaly are another example. The hurling championship is entirely predictable. Again I take no pleasure in saying that. Nor do I take any pleasure in saying the football championship is streets ahead in terms of competitiveness.

I'd rather watch junior d hurling than the senior all-ireland football final but that's just where I see the sports.

That's your prerogative. It doesn't really tally with what you say below. A little consistency wouldn't go amiss.


I can't understand why this keeps coming up. Can we not just enjoy our national games ? Don't like negative football media coverage ? Don't watch it. Think they're over hyping the hurling ? Don't listen. Enjoy them for what they are as GAA people

It keeps coming up because it is blatantly obvious and it's getting worse. I agree with you when you ask can we not just enjoy our national games. Perhaps you might now refrain from referring to football as "fist ball".

cavandub
County: Cavan
Posts: 32

1749628 Royaldunne

"Look at what Kerry and cork and Meath and Westmeath served up 2 classics"

Whatever about Cork and Kerry the fact that two poor teams Meath and Westmeath can serve up a competitive match doesn't mean Football is in a better state than Hurling, you will get good hurling games between equally matched sides as well.

Last years All Ireland Football Final was unbelievably awful to watch easily one of the worst matches I've ever seen made all the worse was the knowledge that if both teams let their players play football then we might have had a better spectacle, unfortunately tactics and ultimately winning are now more important then anything else.

Cork and Kerry served up a fantastic spectacle. Give credit where credit is due. So did Meath and Westmeath. Again give credit where credit is due. Last years All Ireland football final was not pretty but it was most certainly competitive which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of high profile hurling championship matches this year. By the way did you happen to have a look at the three football semi finals last year ? Did you happen to have a look at three of the four football quarter finals last year? I think those games lend the lie to your last sentence.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/07/2015 17:51:38    1750076

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2438

1749698 Greengrass,i have backed Kilkenny every year since 2003.This is the first time in 12 years ive gone against them.I fancied Clare at start of year.Obviously Clare have a tough game v Cork on Saturday,but if they can get a crack at Kilkenny,i think they have a decent chance of beating them.


I really hope you are right cuedrocket. Hurling needs fresh winners very, very badly.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/07/2015 17:52:48    1750078

Hurling is a far better sport to watch than football in my opinion (though i enjoy football too), but its hard to get excited about the hurling these days when the cats are so much better than everyone else. I doubt there's a game played anywhere else in the world where the chasing pack are so subservient to the champions.
Hurling played hammer and tongs between two evenly matched teams is awesome, but I dont derive any pleasure from seeing this Kilkenny team wipe the floor with almost everyone who stands in their way.
This talk about how its a privilege to watch the greatest team of all time in action is just sugar coating. The novelty has long since worn off.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 08/07/2015 19:11:56    1750118

joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 1956

1750118 Hurling is a far better sport to watch than football in my opinion (though i enjoy football too), but its hard to get excited about the hurling these days when the cats are so much better than everyone else. I doubt there's a game played anywhere else in the world where the chasing pack are so subservient to the champions.
Hurling played hammer and tongs between two evenly matched teams is awesome, but I dont derive any pleasure from seeing this Kilkenny team wipe the floor with almost everyone who stands in their way.
This talk about how its a privilege to watch the greatest team of all time in action is just sugar coating. The novelty has long since worn off.

Football is a very unfairly maligned sport. The negativity around it is ridiculous and completely unjustified. Hurling at it's best is a staggering spectacle. For that to materialise there has to be a contest. We got that in the Limerick Kilkenny semi final last year . We got it in the final and the replay as well. However those days are few and far between now. That is a great pity. You can have all the skill you want but if you don't have a contest you have nothing.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/07/2015 20:19:31    1750159

I agree. people talk about how bad it is watching the dubs hammer everyone in football. Well almost all of Kilkennys matches are like that.
They won the 4 in a row between 2006 and 2009, and in all them games they played to win the 4 in a row, only Tipp in 2009 gave them a game.
The football championship is almost always far more competitive with a greater spread of evenly matched games.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 08/07/2015 20:32:02    1750168

Wexford U21s are about to win the provincial 3-in-a-row.Hammering a fairly average Kilkenny team.Nice to see Wexford have some talent coming through.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/07/2015 20:38:01    1750174

When Kerry won 8 All Irelands in 11 years under Micko,they were nearly seen as impossible to beat.For anyone lucky enough to have seen them in their pomp,it was a privilege.Did it ruin football that they were so dominant?Not a bit of it.They were a credit to the game.Same as Kilkenny.Enjoy them for what they are lads.Master craftsmen with an unbreakable spirit.Just like Kerry,the day will come when the glory days will be thin on the ground.Ive been lucky to see some of the greatest hurlers to play the game.Hickey,DJ,Henry,Tommy,Fast Eddie,Richie Hogan,TJ and my personnel favourite- JJ Delaney.When im an old man and shooting the breeze about our 2 great games,i will remember these days with fondness and no doubt a hint of sadness.I dont take them for granted.A special team.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/07/2015 20:47:29    1750182

I agree Joncarter. Very fair comment . It's great to see Wexford coming through with talent cue. Hopefully they can go all the way and win the U21 All Ireland.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/07/2015 20:49:57    1750184

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2445

Spot on! What I've been trying to say for long time....

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 08/07/2015 21:42:32    1750225

jancarter Who put it up to the Kerry team of the eightys I don't think anybody did,

johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 08/07/2015 21:53:33    1750232

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2446

1750182 When Kerry won 8 All Irelands in 11 years under Micko,they were nearly seen as impossible to beat.For anyone lucky enough to have seen them in their pomp,it was a privilege.Did it ruin football that they were so dominant?Not a bit of it.They were a credit to the game.Same as Kilkenny.Enjoy them for what they are lads.Master craftsmen with an unbreakable spirit.Just like Kerry,the day will come when the glory days will be thin on the ground.Ive been lucky to see some of the greatest hurlers to play the game.Hickey,DJ,Henry,Tommy,Fast Eddie,Richie Hogan,TJ and my personnel favourite- JJ Delaney.When im an old man and shooting the breeze about our 2 great games,i will remember these days with fondness and no doubt a hint of sadness.I dont take them for granted.A special team.

I've just seen this cue. I lived through all of those championships and saw every final. I'll get back to you on it tomorrow.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/07/2015 22:00:01    1750242

Jo carter
The Tipp team of the 60s was the best team of all time this Kk team wouldn't come out in the second half against them as they the game would be over at half time

tiobraidArann (Tipperary) - Posts: 362 - 09/07/2015 09:32:06    1750270

And remember in those days there was no back door like today or that TIpp team would have won at least 5 in a row as they slipped up against Waterford in munster in 63

tiobraidArann (Tipperary) - Posts: 362 - 09/07/2015 09:33:57    1750271

Greengrass
Football is a very unfairly maligned sport. The negativity around it is ridiculous and completely unjustified.

Agreed. Im not sure if it is jealousy of the fact that it is more popular or something. But some of the arguments put against it are just nonsense. The one that stands out is 'any old fool can be trained to play football'. Take a look at the scoring percentages at the highest level of both games. It is clear to see that it is easier to score in a game of hurling than it is in a game of football, therefore how can any fool play it? I actually think football is a better sport. The underlying problem in hurling is that an awful lot of the time, the ball is simply moving too fast. That is why this hoofing it long thing has come to the fore. Hurling would be a better game if the ball was a little bigger and they couldn't send it as long. It would make people have to play a bit more. Maybe something similar in function to the offside rule would be a good idea, to stop hurling looking more and more like a game of tennis.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 09/07/2015 09:44:13    1750276

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2446

1750182
When Kerry won 8 All Irelands in 11 years under Micko,they were nearly seen as impossible to beat.For anyone lucky enough to have seen them in their pomp,it was a privilege.Did it ruin football that they were so dominant?Not a bit of it.They were a credit to the game.Same as Kilkenny.Enjoy them for what they are lads.Master craftsmen with an unbreakable spirit.Just like Kerry,the day will come when the glory days will be thin on the ground.Ive been lucky to see some of the greatest hurlers to play the game.Hickey,DJ,Henry,Tommy,Fast Eddie,Richie Hogan,TJ and my personnel favourite- JJ Delaney.When im an old man and shooting the breeze about our 2 great games,i will remember these days with fondness and no doubt a hint of sadness.I dont take them for granted.A special team.

You make good points. However, JonCarter does as well. It is one thing to enjoy them, yet another to see them hammer everybody in sight (I don't see KK hammering Tipp but apart from that). Going back to Kerry in 1980s. Looking at the attendances of the All-Ireland finals between 1980-1982 (when they were at their zenith), they were actually the lowest since the 1940s. I wonder were the neutrals fed up with the inevitability? The Munster finals were the same at the time. In 1983 the stadium was half empty when Cork ambushed them...looking at the Leinster hurling championship, is it a coincidence that the attendances at games were at their highest when the hurling championship was at its most competitive? You are a GAA 'purist' so to speak so naturally you see the good in them. Most people on this site are probably similar.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 09/07/2015 10:15:36    1750304

Yes Benny,fair points.I had a check of All Ire football attendances and although the 80,81 & 82 finals had attendances in the low 60 rhousands,so also did most of the rest of the 80s,including Corks games with Meath & Mayo.
Kerry played 4 counties in their 10 All Ire finals - Dublin × 6,Offaly × 2,Roscommon,Tyrone.Kilkenny have played 7 counties in their 13 All Ire finals - Cork × 4,Tipp × 4,Galway,Waterford,Limerick,Offaly & Clare.Each final a sell out.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 09/07/2015 13:27:15    1750449

I did a comparison between Kerry & Kilkennys era,s of dominance in relation to average point victories in their respective provincial finals,All Ire semi finals & All Ire finals.I didnt include early provincial games for either.Just to get a guage on the type of beatings both were dishing out.
Kerrys average points victories in their 8 winning seasons was 9.3 points,while Kilkennys average winning victories in their 10 winning seasons(so far)was 8 points.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 09/07/2015 14:34:09    1750495

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2446

1750182 When Kerry won 8 All Irelands in 11 years under Micko,they were nearly seen as impossible to beat.For anyone lucky enough to have seen them in their pomp,it was a privilege.Did it ruin football that they were so dominant?Not a bit of it.They were a credit to the game.Same as Kilkenny.Enjoy them for what they are lads.Master craftsmen with an unbreakable spirit.Just like Kerry,the day will come when the glory days will be thin on the ground.Ive been lucky to see some of the greatest hurlers to play the game.Hickey,DJ,Henry,Tommy,Fast Eddie,Richie Hogan,TJ and my personnel favourite- JJ Delaney.When im an old man and shooting the breeze about our 2 great games,i will remember these days with fondness and no doubt a hint of sadness.I dont take them for granted.A special team.

I was around for all of those championships and I saw all of the finals involving that great Kerry team. Whilst they were the best team I have seen there was an air of inevitability about those championships too. Offaly came aong in the middle of Kerry's era of dominance and won an All Ireland and Dublin also managed to pinch one . However if you look at the semi final results around the late seventies and early eighties there were a number of severe hammerings handed out. I attended some of those matches and there was no contest and no entertainment levels. Those were grey days. Croke Park was host to about 20,000- 25,000 spectators. Football didn't die but it was not competitive. Kerry's period of dominance lasted eleven years. Kilkenny's is sixteen and counting.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/07/2015 17:08:32    1750620