cheesecake
County: UK
Posts: 7

1747130
Down are the aristocrats of Ulster Football due to the beautiful style of football they play. I think the "win at all costs" mentality has somewhat shrouded your judgement here. I'm a Down fan and if they got to the Ulster final this year I wouldn't of went, I think they've completely lost their way since 2010 which is so unfortunate as there is some supremely talented guys in the county, here's hoping they'll come great again, getting back into division 1 is the first step on the later.

I agree Down have plenty of talent, but they look a little bit rudderless these days. They lack leaders on the pitch, and don't fully look comfortable playing the defensive style.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 03/07/2015 20:55:27    1747228

I , for one saw most of the Down team of 1960/61 play It was around 1965 /66 in Ballybofey but don't tell me they always played lovely football That particular day I saw Dan mcCartan Joe Lennon and Donegals Sean Ferriter all sent off Another day I saw Donegal / Down play and on fielding a ball a down player came straight through and busted John hannigans nose and before the game was over the same Down player was also loosing blood
Some of the football was fairly dirty in those days, how often would you nor see a corner forward down on the ground , with play at the other end after being felled off the ball
Even the Down team that played and beat Meath in 1991 had their fair share of fellas who could look after themselves. Same as with any county including our own. Over the years the team I always thought played good football was Cork ( I know I'm getting away from the thread)
Another point is that in Ulster football was probably only well devoleped in Cavan / Monaghan
Gaels had a torrid time in the six counties, let's face it Down, Tyrone , Derry weren't heard tell of until around the mid to late fifties
Donegal were even worse, there were places where their was no football plus emigration was severe in Donegal , it was common practice to emigrate at around 17/18 years of age I was on the boat myself at 17 and joined by my younger brother 16 years a few weeks later ans us being the oldest of a family of 13
So for me neither Cavan / down are the aristocrats of Ulster football as neither have won Ulster enough over the last 30 years For me the pecking order in my time would be Tyrone DonegalDown Armagh Derry and that from watching those counties for over 40 years

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 03/07/2015 21:43:23    1747243

1747013
prideof85
County: Monaghan
Posts: 411

1746929
and one win in ulster v armagh 2013 in the last 5 years and if truth be told yous caught Armagh on the hop .


Wrong, wrong, wrong. I have heard this "fact" repeated ad nauseum on TV, Radio, Newspapers and on forums, very lazy "journalism".

can people not think for themselves. Let me point out that we have won "TWO" ulster championship matches in the last 5 years. We beat Fermanagh in the Ulster Championship in 2013 also before losing to Monaghan by a point in the semi-final. that year we also met Fermanagh in the qualifiers and beat them AGAIN, so maybe that is where people are getting confused.

Back to the topic... SamofErrigal has it spot on. Cavan are most definitely not the aristocrats of Ulster Football. perhaps if you take snapshots of different eras a few teams can lay claim to that title during those eras but there are no all-time aristocrats. The only team that can rightly hold that title for the whole country are Kerry in Football and Kilkenny in Hurling.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 04/07/2015 10:35:59    1747280

From the beginning of the 1900's up on yo the mid 1950's there is no doubt but Cavan were the best , and probably only team in Ulster. I know Monaghan /Antrim won a few Ulster titles but never had the team's Cavan had over that period of time
And it's hard to believe how far downhill Cavan went They bring massive support and was at the 1983 Ulster final( Cavan v Donegal ) and that was my first day in Clones

Around that time not as many people travelled back to Ireland for games but now I would not miss an Ulster final with Donegal playing
The other thing is if you asked younger people , say in the age group 16 to 30 about Cavan teams over the last 30 years very few would be able to tell you anything about Cavan. To sum it all up there is no dispute that Cavan were a great footballing county, won a record amount of Ulster champions plus were good enough to beat the best in Croke park and won All Ireland's
The only big thing missing from the Kerry CV is they never won the Final when it was played outside Ireland , Cavan did that
Even that Cavan has not much success over the last 45 years or so they still have a proud footballing history and it would be good for the game if they could won an Ulster again and maybe an All Ireland

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 04/07/2015 13:26:47    1747338

Down are the aristocrats of Ulster football. They have won five All-Irelands in the last 55 years,no other Ulster county can match that achievement. They have won the All-Irelands with grace and panache.Down revolutionized the way Gaelic Football should be played. They won their five All-Irelands with three different teams. The 1968 team had only four players who played in the '60 and '61 team i.e. Dan McCartan,Joe Lennon, Paddy Doherty and Sean O'Neill. Down in 1960, was the first team to bring the Sam Maguire Cup across the border and broadened the appeal of Gaelic Football. A clip showing highlights of the 1961 All-Ireland final between Kerry and Down on the GAA website showed how modern and advanced their methods had been in contrast to the traditional style of catch and kick. The All-Ireland final of 1991 was one of the best finals in the last 25 years,in which Down played some fantastic football and inspired other Ulster counties i.e. Donegal, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone to All-Ireland success. Down are definitely in GAA folklore.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 598 - 04/07/2015 15:12:26    1747364

100% fainleog totally agree

prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 04/07/2015 16:14:08    1747387

fainleog
County: Limerick
Posts: 160

1747364 Down are the aristocrats of Ulster football. They have won five All-Irelands in the last 55 years,no other Ulster county can match that achievement. They have won the All-Irelands with grace and panache.Down revolutionized the way Gaelic Football should be played. They won their five All-Irelands with three different teams. The 1968 team had only four players who played in the '60 and '61 team i.e. Dan McCartan,Joe Lennon, Paddy Doherty and Sean O'Neill. Down in 1960, was the first team to bring the Sam Maguire Cup across the border and broadened the appeal of Gaelic Football. A clip showing highlights of the 1961 All-Ireland final between Kerry and Down on the GAA website showed how modern and advanced their methods had been in contrast to the traditional style of catch and kick. The All-Ireland final of 1991 was one of the best finals in the last 25 years,in which Down played some fantastic football and inspired other Ulster counties i.e. Donegal, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone to All-Ireland success. Down are definitely in GAA folklore.
_________________________________
WTF did you think we were all into up here at the time, croquet, lawn bowls, bog snorkelling? Catch yourself on lad and have a bit of respect.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/07/2015 16:18:52    1747388

In the first 50 years or so of the last century, clearly Cavan were deserving of the title Bed introduced this string with.

These days Cavan's most consistent performers are their supporters.

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 04/07/2015 19:40:32    1747482

forget all this aristocrat BS. Cavan & Down are first ulster teams to exit the championship 2015. football is all about the present and future and both counties are p*** poor at present and the future is not promising. Down certainly are the worst team in Ulster at present.

downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 349 - 05/07/2015 14:33:57    1747709

Have to laugh at all these "Won an all Ireland outside of Ireland" comments as if its an achievement. Its comical to think some people reckon its an something to admire, especially considering it only happened once in the history of the GAA. Someone had to win it, and it just so happened to be Cavan, the strongest team at the time. They were just lucky that the point they were strongest was also the only time they held the final in NY.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1644 - 05/07/2015 16:52:32    1747789

SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 723

1747338 From the beginning of the 1900's up on yo the mid 1950's there is no doubt but Cavan were the best , and probably only team in Ulster. I know Monaghan /Antrim won a few Ulster titles but never had the team's Cavan had over that period of time
And it's hard to believe how far downhill Cavan went They bring massive support and was at the 1983 Ulster final( Cavan v Donegal ) and that was my first day in Clones
Absolutely untrue. This year in their own Breffni backyard Cavan supporters were outnumbered 3 to 1 by Monaghan and again yesterday by Roscommon. So some staunch supporters in Cavan alright but not near as many as in some other counties.

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 05/07/2015 16:55:14    1747792

Cavan were the last to join Ulster in the early 1600s i think however I would imagine the areas of Cavan near Fermanagh were in Ulster before counties came into existence. One could argue that the original Ulster was Antrim/Down, the kingdom of the Ulaid. Niall of the nine hostages and his comrades (derry, donegal, tyrone) at the time wouldn't have described themselves as Ulstermen as that was not their territory. Historians are not sure what became of these Antrim Ulaid tribes.

4KHDoneill (Derry) - Posts: 182 - 05/07/2015 18:07:30    1747850

4khdoneil
Derry Tyrone and Donegal was O'Donnell Kingdom and as of now Donegal ruled

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 05/07/2015 21:53:54    1748039

4khdoneil
Derry Tyrone and Donegal was O'Donnell Kingdom and as of now Donegal ruled

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 05/07/2015 21:54:28    1748041

4KHDoneill
County: Derry
Posts: 143

1747850
Cavan were the last to join Ulster in the early 1600s i think however I would imagine the areas of Cavan near Fermanagh were in Ulster before counties came into existence. One could argue that the original Ulster was Antrim/Down, the kingdom of the Ulaid. Niall of the nine hostages and his comrades (derry, donegal, tyrone) at the time wouldn't have described themselves as Ulstermen as that was not their territory. Historians are not sure what became of these Antrim Ulaid tribes.

I think the actual boundaries often were Interchangeable, however the general area of Cavan and Monaghan were always there own kingdown, more often a sub kingdom to the ruler's in Aileach.

The Kingdom of Aileach ( Modern day Derry, Donegal, Tyrone and Fermanagh ) came into existance or rose to prominance between 400-550AD, which probably signalled the demise of Influence of the Ulaid ( later of Antrim and Down, however more dominant across Ulster pre 550AD ). The Kingdom of Aileach was the seat of Northern Ui Neill, who alternated the Kingship of Tara with the Southern Ui Neill ( Meath, Westmeath, Louth etc ). Combined with their cousins further South, they formed the kingship of Tara and generally they held a huge sway over the whole of Ireland.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 06/07/2015 16:14:56    1748657