In fairness the A and B sides of the draw is still luck of the draw. It's just a bit unlucky if more strong teams are drawn on one side than the other. It's the Ulster championship in fairness that will influence the tougher side. Ulster is happy to have an open draw to should be happy enough with the outcome.

Round 1A - losers of:
Cavan v Monaghan
Fermanagh v Antrim
Waterford v Tipperary
Roscommon v London
Offaly v Longford
Laois v Carlow
Dublin v Offaly/Longford
Kildare v Laois/Carlow

Round 1B - losers of:
Donegal v Tyrone
Derry v Down
Armagh v Donegal/Tyrone
Clare v Limerick
Leitrim v Galway
Louth v Westmeath
Wexford v Louth/Westmeath
Meath v Wicklow

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 09/05/2015 21:50:14    1721894

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 4221

1721894 In fairness the A and B sides of the draw is still luck of the draw. It's just a bit unlucky if more strong teams are drawn on one side than the other. It's the Ulster championship in fairness that will influence the tougher side. Ulster is happy to have an open draw to should be happy enough with the outcome.


It's a tough one to crack, which is why the Ulster Council has not made changes.

The open nature of the draw can often lead to many different pairings which are all competitive and are also refreshing, however this can also lead to Imbalance in the Ulster Championship draw some years, and that Imbalance then continues Into the Qualifiers.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 10/05/2015 14:01:14    1722012

Seeing as there is going to be no change this year, and most likely no change next year in the provincial and all ireland competitions, lets give these threads a rest. They come around too often, go around in circles and only end up in a debate away from the actual game. This and Dublin playing in croke park as well as some teams having better funding than others. Some of these things should only be discussed on long winter nights. There is football around the corner and this is boring now.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 10/05/2015 14:42:12    1722033

McGeeney started the discussion!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 10/05/2015 14:59:58    1722043

Provencial Councils are in it for the political power and prestige they afford and want to exist for all time just like the FAI and the IFA in the light ball. Open draw in the GAA is not wanted by our GAA "politicians" and the backdoor is a way of placating the balance issue...this thread can R.I.P.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 10/05/2015 15:44:17    1722060

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 4225

1722043
McGeeney started the discussion!

It doesnt matter who started it. He is hardly a spokesperson for us.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 10/05/2015 15:59:13    1722064

I like the A and B split in the Qualifiers - as it facilitates club match scheduling. It's a pity that with a bit of imagination, the draw could be better seeded to address the imbalance we have been discussing. Rather than an open draw in 16-team Rd 1 - 8 Lein/Uls QF losers could be seeded (4 in A, 4 in B). Also, further on, 4 Muns/ Conn SF losers and all 4 Final losers could all be put in
12-team 'stronger' A (play 2 rds to get 3 to AI QFs) and 4 Lein/ Uls SF losers to 8-team 'weaker' B (play 3 rds to get 1 to AI QFs).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 10/05/2015 16:51:45    1722083

Dreadful thing for the Geezer to say..the word is imbalanced

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 10/05/2015 17:40:51    1722104

omahant - you are gas. You take on the discussion and then snowball it into overdrive! Is there a way of getting a motion to congress from the US?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 10/05/2015 20:01:08    1722201

Is it best to think about who in county team management would be the best facilitator for a motion advancement ? - first, they have to be on board in liking what we have to offer. Would we even sign off on each other's ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 11/05/2015 21:35:03    1722606

Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1965

1722033 Seeing as there is going to be no change this year, and most likely no change next year in the provincial and all ireland competitions, lets give these threads a rest. They come around too often, go around in circles and only end up in a debate away from the actual game. This and Dublin playing in croke park as well as some teams having better funding than others. Some of these things should only be discussed on long winter nights. There is football around the corner and this is boring now.

I think this is the place for expansive discussions that may never come to fruitation, as here we can take the most extreme Idea's on board and seeing what people like across the board. I have noted that a lot of stuff discussed on here, does reach the highest levels of the GAA. This would suggest that even the high level people must take a peak to see what the general consensus is on matters.

The talk of changing the National League has been very constructive, and well received by most.

Most like the Idea of changing the structure below, however still some debate over whether or not we should have a League final or Semi Final.

Div 1 = 10 teams ( 9 games each ),
Div 2 = 10 teams ( 9 games each ),
Northern/Western League = 6 teams ( 10 games each, 5 home/5 away ),
Southern/Eastern League = 6 teams ( 10 games each, 5 home/ 5 away ).

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/05/2015 13:44:48    1722776

GaryMc82

I wouldn't agree with your league changes. It would remove the competitiveness from the leagues. I would be much more in favour of a league system similar to Hurling, which provides very even matches of a high intensity.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 12/05/2015 14:08:08    1722792

@ tirawleybaron - a league system similar to hurling would be suitable if they brought in provincial groups.

Munster: 1 group of 6
Connaught: 1 group of 5
Ulster (+London): 2 groups of 5
Leinster: 1 group of 6 and 1 group of 5.

If the provincial championships were run on a round robin format, all teams would get at least 2 home games and 2 away games. The Munster and Connaught finals could consist of the top 2 from each group. Leinster and Ulster could retain semi-finals from the top 2 of each group.

Only allow the top 2 teams from each of the 6 groups into the All-Ireland Series:
4 Provincial runners-up taking on the 4 losing semi-finalists from Ulster and Leinster.
The 4 Provincial winner taking on the 4 play-off winners in the All-Ireland quarter-finals.

This would retain the provincial championships, bringing in a group stage. The group stage could be run over May and June. Provincial semi-finals would be retained in the bigger provinces and Provincial finals would be retained in all provinces.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 12/05/2015 18:17:58    1722928

just looking at the A and B sides of the draw. There will be a lot of people complaining if this turns out as predicted (by bookies)

A side:
Cavan, Antrim, Waterford, London, Offaly, Longford, Laois, Carlow - four winners drawn against Tipp, Clare, Fermanagh and Down. Two teams emerge to play Cork and Monaghan.

B side:
Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Limerick, Leitrim, Louth, Wexford, Wicklow - four winners drawn against Galway, Sligo, Kildare and Westmeath. Two teams emerge to play Roscommon and Meath.

All and all its fair enough but their will be complaints if the northern teams in section B get draw together early on.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 13/05/2015 12:36:48    1723129

tirawleybaron
County: Mayo
Posts: 379

1722792 GaryMc82

I wouldn't agree with your league changes. It would remove the competitiveness from the leagues. I would be much more in favour of a league system similar to Hurling, which provides very even matches of a high intensity.


What competitiveness? The League is a warm up competition, somewhere to give fringe players a run out against decent opposition or help senior players get up to speed for Championship.

Our suggested League changes are simply to give all teams in the top 2 tiers at least 9 games each ( As normally only 7 games are guaranteed ). It should also stabilise the top 2 tiers, as we quite often see the teams on the final league Sunday in contention for both Semi final's and relegation. Really we should be looking to keep the top 8 teams in the division for the following season.

Splitting the bottom 12 teams into a Northern League and a Southern League should ensure less travel for games, which would surely be welcomed by teams who get less funding than the big guns.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/05/2015 17:20:24    1723313

The league shouldn't be a warm up competition. It could be a true measure of a teams ability - just like every other sport in the world. The championship is too unbalanced and has too many elements of luck involved for it to be a fair measurement of a teams ability.

If the leagues had less teams and more to play for they would get bigger crowds, create more revenue and would help overall game development.
The current championship system has only 4 rounds where results really mater. The league has 2.

A sport where each team only has 6 big matches every year will never expand and won't capture the imagination of young people into the future. Modern technology provides young people with instant access to coverage of competitive sport year round and all the hype associated with it.

The GAA provides no hype, no promotion and a max of 5 really full on competitive games for any county. Its just not enough particularly with some of the defensive, hand passing rubbish that passes for football nowadays. I won't even get into the mess of club football and the constant messing around with club fixtures.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well or you have a think about why the GAA loses 75% of their players after they leave minor level and why some of the best players in the weaker counties would rather play club football than play for their county.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 14/05/2015 08:43:06    1723436