Not sure why you think this has anything to do with Dublin royaldunne, read the article I linked and then comment?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 29/04/2015 14:22:52    1718932

how about a WWF style Royal Rumble where all 34 Teams play in Croke Park and the last team standing wins? Each County would have a walk in Anthem played.

So you mean model it on the Ulster Championship.... ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 29/04/2015 14:27:00    1718935

Abolish the prelim competitions
Change leagues to 6/7 team format with no playoffs
Use leagues to seed provincial champ
Use Provincial champ to seed round robin system

Keeps everyone happy

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 29/04/2015 14:36:11    1718941

how about a WWF style Royal Rumble where all 34 Teams play in Croke Park and the last team standing wins? Each County would have a walk in Anthem played.

it this not exactly what Armagh did last time for their opening UFC match ?

DD10 (Cavan) - Posts: 130 - 29/04/2015 14:44:06    1718944

I could get crucified for saying it but I do not think that the Provincial Championships should be a sacred cow. I think that it is more important that we have new life breathed into the Gaelic Football Calendar with the aim of bringing excitement and enthusiasm in equal measure while trying to make the competitions as balanced as possible.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 29/04/2015 15:08:10    1718957

Is the problem with the calendar not the club/county balance? The champions league proposal had being discussed and flogged to death. It'll not make the championship any more exciting. The champions league does not really start till the quarter final, maybe now the semi final with the big three (Barcelona, Madrid and Munich). Can only see a similar thing happening here. A lot of games with no intensity and group games with dead rubbers.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 29/04/2015 17:44:38    1719036

I think most people would be happy to try a different championship format even if it meant scrapping the provincials.

There might be 3 or 4 interesting games between the league finishing and the August Bank holiday weekend.
3 months for 4 good matches and no club football.
Players training 150 training sessions for 10-12 matches.
Big stadiums only filled once every two years.

The GAA are a bit like a communist government, supposed to be treating everyone the same but in reality looking after a few. We all know how successful communism turned out.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 29/04/2015 18:00:00    1719042

29/04/2015 18:00:00
tirawleybaron
I think most people would be happy to try a different championship format even if it meant scrapping the provincials.
There might be 3 or 4 interesting games between the league finishing and the August Bank holiday weekend.
3 months for 4 good matches and no club football.
Players training 150 training sessions for 10-12 matches.
Big stadiums only filled once every two years.

The GAA are a bit like a communist government, supposed to be treating everyone the same but in reality looking after a few. We all know how successful communism turned out. In how many counties do clubs not actually play club championship games through summer while county still involved in championship... I think a new format is needed but the provincial cups need to be kept as you can then have tiered competitions while also keeping the traditional provincial championships.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/04/2015 18:20:54    1719047

Every couple of months this type of topic is discussed in the media and/or on this and other GAA forums.

Firstly a few observations; its seems the most clamour for change comes from Ulster posters. Do you all undervalue your own provincial championship so much as to want to get rid of it?

Do you honestly think if the All Ireland was revamped into a league of champions league format (why you want to model our games on the structure used in soccer is beyond me by the way) the likes of Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Antrim, Derry in their current state would have any greater chance of winning an All Ireland?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, why in Gods name would players and supporters destroy a set-up that gives each county a chance of winning 2 trophies and replace it with a system where provincial championships are eradicated and the only silverware on offer is Sam Maguire.

Limerick may never again win a football All Ireland but they can dream of winning the Munster Championship, ditto Longford, Louth, Westmeath etc in Leinster, Leitrim, Sligo etc in Connacht, Antrim, Cavan etc in Ulster.

On a final note maybe our Ulster friends do not appreciate or understand the significance Kerry and Cork people place on a Munster title. Kerry v Cork on Munster final day is one of the greatest spectacles and most historic occasions in Irish sport. Why would anyone who loves Gaelic football rob a sport of great occasions like that?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 29/04/2015 18:43:40    1719054

Let me be very clear, in the words of Charlton Heston, from my cold dead hands. Leinster will never be scrapped.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/04/2015 18:51:44    1719056

In Fairness Hermit, Cork and Kerry can get together anytime and play a final and even call it the Munster final if they wish. Otherwise the munster championship is a dead rubbber and has been for decades. I agree that only for the Munster Hurling championship and the Ulster football Championship there would be little point in keeping the provincial competitions. Play them off as separate competitions as its probably time for change.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 29/04/2015 19:04:32    1719060

Dublin Donegal Kerry Cork Mayo Monaghon Down Roscommon
Derry Meath Cavan laois Tyrone Galway Armagh Fermanagh
Tipperary Clare Longford Offaly kildare Westmeath Sligo Limerick
Wexford Louth Antrim Waterford London Wicklow Carlow Leitrim


Looking at Naysayers very good suggestion which certainly gives the league more importance , This is the Possible scenario if Gaa Groups were brought in instead of Provincial champioship for this year, based on this years leagues and how they finished up .Tyrone as an example were relegated so are seeded in second group , Relegation for Kildare puts them in Seed 3 group.

I like the idea, top 2 teams go through. Most of the same usual suspects will come through , but Ulster teams get the same fair chance as Dublin or Kerry.They are rewarded for being in Div 1 , A team that doesnt take league seriously or is poor like Kildare is punished and put in a harder group because of their seedings .
You will get possibly one tough group , Some really soft groups , but at least their is different fixtures and counties get games against oppositon they might never normally play in championship.
Roscommon could dream of winning their group ( a reward for being a number 1 seed ,means no Mayo to navigate ) .Longford could dream of coming second in their group , so could Cavan. Leitrim might feel they have a small chance.
A lot more talking about early games.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 29/04/2015 19:35:50    1719070

Groups look very stuck together it would be Dublin ,Derry Tipp, Wexford in one group as so on.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 29/04/2015 20:24:11    1719081

This is an endless debate.

Option 1 of many
A Round of 16 with 50% representation from each province.

Option 2 of many
Agreed seeding across each province for their respective first round.
8 round 1 losers should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup - with the winner earning a route back into championship.

The breakdown of teams remaining in each province will be 4 in Munster, 4 in Connaught, 8 in Ulster and 8 in Leinster.
The provincial finalists in each province should earn a Round of 16 place - that's 8 places.
The provincial semi-finalists of Ulster and Leinster shoud also earn a Round of 16 place - that's 4 places.
The provincial semi-finalists of Munster and Connaught should play-off for 1 place in the Round of 16.
The provincial quarter-finalists of Ulster should play-off for 1 place in the Round of 16.
The provincial quarter-finalists of Leinster should play-off for 1 place in the Round of 16.
The Tommy Murphy Cup winner should take the final in the Round of 16.

Provincial winners should be drawn at home against the 3 play-off winners and Tommy Murphy Cup winner.
Provincial runners-up should take on the semi-finalists of Ulster and Leinster, with a separate draw to determine the home team.

Advantages:
* Second tier competition - winner earning a route back into the Championship.
* 3 provincial blocks of 8 teams after the first round - each block of 8 providing 5 teams in the Round of 16.

Option 3 of many
If we are to go with groups, why not go with groups within the provinces?

The breakdown of the provincial groups:
Munster: Kerry, Cork, Tipperary, Clare, Limerick & Waterford.
Connaught: Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim.
Ulster Group A: Monaghan, Derry, Cavan, Armagh & Antrim.
Ulster Group B: Donegal, Tyrone, Down, Fermanagh & London.
Leinster Group A: Dublin, Westmeath, Louth, Wexford, Offaly & Wicklow
Leinster Group B: Meath, Laois, Kildare, Longford & Carlow

Ulster and Leinster would have two groups so they'd have to sort it out amongst themselves whether it will be an open draw or a seeding. An option might be the same group 2 years running. Each team would wind up playing each other home and away over the 2 year cycle.

Top 2 in Munster and Connaught into their provincial finals.
Top 2 in Ulster and Leinster into their provincial semi-finals.
Provincial winners into the All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Provincial runners-up drawn against beaten semi-finalists of Ulster and Leinster in a play-off.

Change in championship structure?
The championship structure will never change.
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
Ah but don't you believe them!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 29/04/2015 21:33:43    1719093

If there was a referendum , I would like to see it scrapped ( provincials ) . At least give it a go . As Ulster goes , we had it relatively east last year and look how we done . It's not fair at all , four very hard matches if we win it this year . Kerry , meanwhile waltz into the last 8 . It's a farce really !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 29/04/2015 21:57:41    1719105

doratheexplorer
County: Cavan
Posts: 442

1719036 Is the problem with the calendar not the club/county balance? The champions league proposal had being discussed and flogged to death. It'll not make the championship any more exciting. The champions league does not really start till the quarter final, maybe now the semi final with the big three (Barcelona, Madrid and Munich). Can only see a similar thing happening here. A lot of games with no intensity and group games with dead rubbers.

doratheexplorer that is a very fair point when looking at the Champions League as a neutral observer or a supporter of one of the big teams.

However for the lesser lights playing in the Group Stage is a massive thing, fills stadiums and generates a great deal of interest. This is where I think such a system would be of benefit. True the like of Dublin, Kerry etc would probably waltz to the last 16 the same way they do to the Quarters most years but this would not be so much to benefit Dublin etc as to try and provide a spark across all counties.

The other thing about the Champions League is that it is 6 matches so dead rubbers could appear as early as matchday 3 or 4 whereas with only 3 games and winning the group meaning avoiding another top 8 team i do not think this approach would lead to too many dead rubbers especially with second place also to play for.

In addition you have to remember this would give balance to the paths for All counties in their attempts to win Sam.

There is the question of balance with club fixtures but again to play in an All Ireland final you are talking about 7 games barring any replays. For Donegal to play in an All Ireland final this year they would have to play 7 games minimum before any replays. Granted this would be an increase for the like of Kerry who would be looking at 7 games instead of 5 minimum, while Dublin and others would play 7 instead of 6 minimum but this comes back to balance for all competing counties and is still not a major difference and that is before you consider the current qualifier route and the additional games thrown up.

But anyway in no way am I saying my suggestion is perfect nor is it original on these threads either. I just feel right now we know for fact the championship is not balanced and we also can debate whether or not it is possible to increase the enthusiasm throughout the country by restructuing.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 30/04/2015 11:57:41    1719168

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3682

1719081 Groups look very stuck together it would be Dublin ,Derry Tipp, Wexford in one group as so on.

Sorry AthCliath I could have been clearer - I meant a draw from the seeding Pots so that a team is drawn from each to make up a group.

So you would have the following set of seeds:
Dublin Donegal Kerry Cork Mayo Monaghon Down Roscommon
Derry Meath Cavan laois Tyrone Galway Armagh Fermanagh
Tipperary Clare Longford Offaly kildare Westmeath Sligo Limerick
Wexford Louth Antrim Waterford London Wicklow Carlow Leitrim

You could have the following groups:
Dublin
Tyrone
kildare
Wicklow

Donegal
Meath
Clare
Antrim

Kerry
Armagh
Westmeath
Louth

Roscommon
Cavan
Tipperary
Wexford

etc etc etc

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 30/04/2015 12:18:51    1719173

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 611

1719105 If there was a referendum , I would like to see it scrapped ( provincials ) . At least give it a go . As Ulster goes , we had it relatively east last year and look how we done . It's not fair at all , four very hard matches if we win it this year . Kerry , meanwhile waltz into the last 8 . It's a farce really !

I wouldn't be in favour of scrapping the Provincial Championship, especially not in Ulster where it is prestigious trophy to win for every young Ulster player.


I would scrap the National League, and the Qualifiers.

I would then create two separate Leagues ( Northern League and Southern League ).

Northern League would consist of Ulster and North Connacht/ North Leinster.
Southern League would consist of Munster and South Connacht/South Leinster.

The final league position would determine your Provincial Championship position, and seed the top sides. The 4 semi finalists from each province would then all enter the All Ireland series Group of 16. Knock out galore!

- More games each year.
- Fairer seeding system in all provinces
- Less travel for league games
- More local games against local rivals during league.
- No more than 2 weeks between Championship games.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 30/04/2015 19:38:22    1719335

Naysayer, I know exactly what you mean.
My groups read downwards , not across. They are just very stuck together,they werent meant to come out that close together .
Each group has a div 1, div2, div3,and a div4 team.
My Group with Donegal is very similar to yours :)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 30/04/2015 21:16:08    1719352

Aha got it now - doh! Good work.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 01/05/2015 09:01:11    1719378